Understanding Hebrews - 3

[DaveW]

JOB 19: 25  For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
 26  And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
 27  Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

I think this is the passage you are looking for?

[Covenanter]

Yes, JOB, a prophet of God, was moved to speak of the post-trib bodily resurrection, by the Holy Ghost.

JOB said ," though my body rots and disintegrates, somehow it will rise and look upon Jesus, at the end, and be a usable body".

Remember, there were prophets all along, we just don't have.a written record of their revelation.

 

 

JOB 19: 25  For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
 26  And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
 27  Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

I think this is the passage you are looking for?

 

We agree that JOB & others teach a bodily resurrection. JOB has many questions about life, suffering, death & beyond death, but that assertion is inspired truth.

[Not saying that the whole book isn't inspired, but JOB's questionings & his counsellors arguments show a searching for truth, though are not all statements of truth.]

 

JOB's redeemer is already living; he will become incarnate; his redeeming work will secure JOB's bodily resurrection to the glorious presence of his Redeemer.

 

I do not think JOB is prophesying "post trib rapture" in the sense some on the forum understand it. He is looking far beyond his present suffering to resurrection life with his Redeemer.

 

He also warns that judgement follows death, as Hebrews does:

 

JOB 19:29 Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment . 

 

Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment:

 

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

While JOB frequently asserts his integrity, in chapter 19 he asserts his confidence in his Redeemer. And God does not abandon JOB to his doubts. That glorious testimony, frequently sung by beautiful sopranos in Handel's "Messiah" was first spoken by a diseased & broken man lying on a heap of ashes. It gives us confidence & hope in death - but sadly for many that confidence & hope is vain.

 

Can we accept with JOB that the basis for the resurrection & salvation of OT believers was faith in their Redeemer? As Habakkuk, Paul & Hebrews assert:

 

Hab. 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. 

Rom. 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

 

 

 

Heb. 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

Living by faith did not begin with Pentecost, as JOB demonstrates.

[wretched]

 

 

Living by faith did not begin with Pentecost, as JOB demonstrates.

 

JOB? The entire Bible from Genesis through Revelation demonstrates living by faith as the only way to please God. This is an odd ending to this post unless you are somehow confusing living by faith with the renewal/regeneration of the Holy Spirit which did begin for believers at Pentecost.

 

Threads like this make it evident to me that some who follow strange fables like preterism could be doing so simply by a lack of comprehension and perhaps not due to evil surmisings. Only God knows for sure. I mean, you seem like a nice enough fella but many times restraint is demonstrated by personality and not by the Spirit.

[prophet1]

JOB 19: 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

I think this is the passage you are looking for?

Yup. Cov. quoted it on the post I was responding to, so I didn't requote it.

I tried, rather, to give the plain interpretation.

[DaveW]

Yup. Cov. quoted it on the post I was responding to, so I didn't requote it.

I tried, rather, to give the plain interpretation.

My apologies for my misunderstanding.

[Genevanpreacher]

JOB? The entire Bible from Genesis through Revelation demonstrates living by faith as the only way to please God. This is an odd ending to this post unless you are somehow confusing living by faith with the renewal/regeneration of the Holy Spirit which did begin for believers at Pentecost.

 

Threads like this make it evident to me that some who follow strange fables like preterism could be doing so simply by a lack of comprehension and perhaps not due to evil surmisings. Only God knows for sure. I mean, you seem like a nice enough fella but many times restraint is demonstrated by personality and not by the Spirit.

 

 

Huh? Restraint? If you would take the time and OBserve your lack of restraint with other 'point of views', maybe you would start to consider that you may not  know it all?

Let Covenanter live his own convictions, and try to give someone else the ability to express their view, and give you the chance to accept it patiently.

 

We do for you. More than you might think.

[prophet1]

Hey GP, any thoughts on my posts?

[Covenanter]

 

wretched, on 22 Oct 2014 - 5:19 PM, said:

JOB? The entire Bible from Genesis through Revelation demonstrates living by faith as the only way to please God. This is an odd ending to this post unless you are somehow confusing living by faith with the renewal/regeneration of the Holy Spirit which did begin for believers at Pentecost.

 

Your comment brings us to what I wanted to discuss, as we get on to Hebrews 11 & the salvation of the OT believers.

[Genevanpreacher]

Hey GP, any thoughts on my posts?

 

10-4, Going out. Will get back to ya on that, good buddy. Break.

[wretched]

Huh? Restraint? If you would take the time and OBserve your lack of restraint with other 'point of views', maybe you would start to consider that you may not  know it all?

Let Covenanter live his own convictions, and try to give someone else the ability to express their view, and give you the chance to accept it patiently.

 

We do for you. More than you might think

 

Reread it again and slowly guy. Comprehension is lacking on your part also and not just in my last post but in many threads.

 

And who is we? You and Covenanter hardly speak for this forum, quite the opposite.

[John81]

Can't we stick to the topic in a Christian manner and actually have a discussion?

[HappyChristian]

Yes, let's get back to topic. 

[Genevanpreacher]

Sorry. 

[Genevanpreacher]

Hey GP, any thoughts on my posts?

 

Just a consideration. JOB was pretty worn out in this section of his book, (which by the way verse 23 in chapter 19 did get fulfilled!)

And as usual I like to reread a section to see the balance of what is being said compared to what is really being said.

And I can sorta see what you are saying. Yet, I can also disagree with my bible notes in my gloss sometimes, too.

The notes for verse 25 states -

               

"Herein JOB declareth plainly that he had a full hope, that both the soul and body should enjoy the presence of God in the last resurrection."

 

Which I agree, is a nice clarification on the subject of the resurrection, for 'pre-incarnate days'.

But, I see a little something else in this. That JOB was stating the superior power of the Lord, that

he was gonna be 'the last one standing' at the final moments of earths pre-destruction time.

I think JOB was stating that he was going to 'recover' from this time of 'deep depression' that God was letting him go through.

Verse 27 is the key, to me, that his reins were 'doing' something.

 

Now, I am not as smart as I may 'put-on' sometimes, (which I am sure 'some' OBserve. ), but I heard an herbalist/preacher

years ago explain 'reins' being the organ in our body that 'gives' us that conviction 'feeling'.

[bro. Duane Cleghorn was his name, if any are curious.]

He explained it quite in a biblical light.

So in verse 27 JOB was speaking of that convictional emotion and feeling, and I see it as referring to JOB 'coming out' and gaining

the victory in his 'future', yet not only at the resurrection, but after his final days with these so-called friends of his. For verse 26 says

"yet in my flesh shall I see God", which goes on into 27 "Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold", speaking of his present body.

 

But a note that I like says, for the end of verse 28, "For though his friends thought that he was but persecuted of God

for his sins, yet he declareth that there was a deeper consideration: to wit, the trial of his faith and patience."

 

He was to be an example of 'victory', out of 'failure of life', for others to behold and gain strength from, for their own 'trials'.

 

IMO only.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Genevanpreacher

[Covenanter]

Heb. 10 includes a resume, & some consideration about the future of his readers, & the "end times" future.

 

Heb. 10:1-4 reminds us that animal sacrifices  cannot cleanse the conscience, nor take away sin.

 

Heb. 10:5-14 The sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary was  one sacrifice for sins for ever. There can never be further sacrices for sin. Ezekiel's prophecy cannot refer to future millennial sacrifices of animals by a human priesthood. 

 

Heb. 10:14-18 We are living under the new covenant - by Jesus' sacrifice - so that by the indwelling Holy Ghost we have the Law in our hearts & minds. Our sins are forgotten & forgiven (remitted.)

 

Heb. 10:18-25 Live as redeemed people, & encourage one another, so that we may stand as ye see the day approaching.

 

Heb. 10:26-31 Don't sin wilfully, nor turn away from Christ - & in the context, do not return to reliance on Moses & the animal sacrifices. Don't return to the law by which you will be judged - & utterly condemned.

 

Heb. 10:32-36 Remember the former days, when you welcomed the Gospel, despite persecution. Stand firm in your eternal hope in Christ. Do the will of God & so receive the promise.

 

Heb. 10:35-39 Jesus is coming - he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. We need to remember the confused situation in Judea to which Hebrews was written, in around AD 60. Read Acts 21. The temple was standing, & old covenant sacrifices were being offered by many thousands of Christian believers. Paul was persuaded to join in such an offering, but was prevented. The 40 years of grace was coming to an end. Jesus had warned prophetically:

Mark 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

It is that coming that was imminent, not what we understand as his second coming for resurrection & judgement. (Or "rapture.") See Heb. 3:12-19 Jesus referred to the sign of Jonah - the Ninevites were given 40 days, & repented. The Jews were given a generation of 40 years. There was still time to repent. But judgement was certainly coming, so how should they live in a rebellious situation? Take the lesson from Habakkuk facing the Chaldean invasion - live by faith.

 

We need to be practical - we are living in confused rebellious & wicked days, when many of those who speak as "Christians" speak hypocrisy & oppose the Gospel, or teach that other religions & ways are valid, apart from Christ.

 

How do we encourage one another to godly living by faith in times of opposition, & persecution? And how do we support those presently dying for their faith?