Understanding Hebrews

[Covenanter]

There have been two threads raised by beameup intended to discuss aspects of the covenants - new & everlasting - with Israel. The issues raised show that we need to discuss the letter as a whole, before we discuss detail.

 

Both pointed out that the covenants were with Israel. "It seems, those who hold to "covenants" seem to completely ignore unconditional covenants made by God to Jews. Why is that?"

 

A New Covenant With The House Of Israel, And With The House Of Judah

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;

which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant

that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

and will be their God, and they shall be my people.  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother,

saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their

iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. [includes the national sin of killing Messiah]  Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

 

It Shall Be An Everlasting Covenant With Them

From Ezekiel 37 ("valley of dry bones")

 

24  And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBserve my statutes, and do them.

 

25  And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto JacOB my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they,

and their children, and their children's children forever: and my servant David shall be their prince forever.

 

26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

 

"Covenants"

Map of land settlement according to Ezekiel 48.

The "literal" understanding of these covenants is that They are intended for national, ethnic Israel to fulfill the promises to Abraham. The force of the thread poster is that as Israel has not received them, thay are yet future. Fulfilment in a future millennium is therefore expected, and we can see the beginning of that fulfilment in the return of national Israel to the land. 

 

As Jeremiah 31 is quoted in Hebrews 8, I consider it will be helpful to discuss the letter in context before specifically discussing the covenants.

 

Hebrews 1:1-3 opens the letter, contrasting the words throughthe prophets with the word of the Son.

 

I consider "these last days" to be the days when it was written - the Apostolic age that would end with the destruction, and continue as the Gospel age until Jesus comes again.

Literal reading of  "these last days" does not allow a future"Jewish" age. It is therefore written for 1st C Jews who had seen, heard and rejected Jesus and the Apostles.

How much more enlightenment could God give them than the personal presence of his Son? When we understand that, understand the passages that suggest believers can be lost. They are not believers, but unbelieving Jews who, with full knowledge resisted the Holy Ghost.

Repent NOW or suffer the destruction prophesied is Hebrew's message. Heb. 2:1-4 asks the deadly serious question: "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?"

Those last days have passed. That generation passed. We are in Gospel days with no specific information about the Lord's coming. We are to be faithful; serving, watching and praying until he comes.

 

Please don't discuss the authorship here.

 

The point was made that Hebrews is a most difficult letter to understand. Let us rise to the challenge.

 

[Genevanpreacher]

I am looking forward to this!

[beameup]

Hebrews is easy to understand if you are a Hellenistic Jew in the 1st Century. 

See, that way you would know all the Hebrew-Greek "phrases" and what the author was trying to get across.

 

BTW, unlike Revelation, Hebrews is dated just before the destruction of the Temple.

 

Rev 7:4 

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed

an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

[Genevanpreacher]

Hey Covenanter, I just found out I am a Hellenistic Jew from the 1st century!

[John81]

This is why the idea of saying some books are only for Jews and some are only for certain times, and then dividing everything a few more times is such a dangerous teaching.

 

Hebrews is an excellent book intended for all followers of Christ from the time it was written to today and beyond. There is much meat to grow upon within the pages of Hebrews.

[beameup]

This is why the idea of saying some books are only for Jews and some are only for certain times, and then dividing everything a few more times is such a dangerous teaching.

 

Hebrews is an excellent book intended for all followers of Christ from the time it was written to today and beyond. There is much meat to grow upon within the pages of Hebrews.

Wrong conclusion.  Some books are written to Hebrews, it doesn't mean that you cannot read them and get "inspiration" from the Holy Spirit.  I mean, isn't the title of the book a "hint"?

 

Actually, there is a "movement" toward Judiasm.  I met a Christian the other day that told me it was a sin to use the name Jesus as it was derived from the Greek god Zeus. 

He said that his name must be pronounced Yeshua. He told me it was also a sin not to OBey the Sabbath.  I'm sure he relies heavily on Hebrews for his "doctrine".

[John81]

The book of Hebrews teaches no such things. While the book was first directed primarily to Hebrews, the Holy Ghost had the book written so it's important and applicable to Jews and Gentiles alike.

[Genevanpreacher]

Wrong conclusion.  Some books are written to Hebrews, it doesn't mean that you cannot read them and get "inspiration" from the Holy Spirit.  I mean, is the title of the book a "hint"?

 

Actually, there is a "movement" toward Judiasm.  I met a Christian the other day that told me it was a sin to use the name Jesus as it was derived from the Greek god Zeus. 

He said that his name must be pronounced Yeshua. He told me it was also a sin not to OBey the Sabbath.  I'm sure he relies heavily on Hebrews for his "doctrine".

No. You just met a 'christian'.

Jesus name is Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God. In English! Which just happens to be what we are speaking now.

Why people mess things up and try speaking Jesus name in Hebrew, when we are speaking English, I will never figure out.

By the way, there is not a 'movement' to that. It has been around for years.

[No Nicolaitans]

Wrong conclusion.  Some books are written to Hebrews, it doesn't mean that you cannot read them and get "inspiration" from the Holy Spirit.  I mean, isn't the title of the book a "hint"?

 

Actually, there is a "movement" toward Judiasm.  I met a Christian the other day that told me it was a sin to use the name Jesus as it was derived from the Greek god Zeus. 

He said that his name must be pronounced Yeshua. He told me it was also a sin not to OBey the Sabbath.  I'm sure he relies heavily on Hebrews for his "doctrine".

 

Anyone involved in this name-ism needs to read this...

 

http://matthew714ministries.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/messianic-judaism-answered-25-holy-name-ism/

 

Matter of fact, they need to read the whole series...

 

Edited to add: By the way, the man who wrote this is a saved Jewish man.

[DaveW]

I don't have any prOBlem understanding Hebrews.

 

At least not the Hebrew who comes to our church - she speaks faultless English.

[Covenanter]

 

Hebrews is easy to understand if you are a Hellenistic Jew in the 1st Century. 

See, that way you would know all the Hebrew-Greek "phrases" and what the author was trying to get across.

 

BTW, unlike Revelation, Hebrews is dated just before the destruction of the Temple.

We will therefore need the help of first century Jewish Christians who wrote in Greek, with a good understanding & knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures & their relevance to Jesus & his saving work, & who recorded the words of Jesus in Greek. And whose writings were inspired bythe Holy Spirit.

 

I agree with you on the dating of Hebrews. I don't think it will be helpful in this thread to discuss the dating of Revelation.

 

Sadly, the unbelieving Jews, both Hellenistic & in Israel, failed to understand. We need a better understanding. 1 Cor. 2:12-16

[prophet1]

Hebrews is a tie in from the ceremonial law, and other OT ordinances, to the post-Resurrection saved Hebrews, still living under the Civil Authority of Jewry.

It explains much, is a great blessing, and etc.

Of course, some of the admonitions to those people were no longer pertinent, after Titus razed Jerusalem.

It is necessary that we understand this, but , who among us is ignorant of this?


Anishinaabe

[Covenanter]

Considering the first chapter:

Heb. 1:1-2 contrasts the word of God by his prophets with the word of his Son. He proceeds to demonstrate the greatness & eternity of Christ the Son in contrast to angels, & the heavens & the earth.

 

One verse we need to examine closely is Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? That verse is 2 direct quotes from Psalm 2:7 and 2 Sam. 7:14 Both establish the Father-Son relationship, but is that not an eternal relationship? Why "this day" & why "I will be ...?" Were these future when they were first stated? Psalm 2 is alluded to by Paul in Rom. 1:1-4 declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, & by John in Rev. 1:5-7 reads like a restatement of Psalm 2 - Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.

 

I suggest what Hebrews is saying is that by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, the Father owned Jesus as his begotten Son. While on earth, he appeared as a man - a boy growing up among them; a prophet without honour. By his resurrection God declares that Jesus is Lord & Christ. In Acts 2:30-36 Peter declares the same truth, & 3,000 are converted.

 

But, over the next 35 years many thousands more turn to Christ in repentance & faith, but persection is hotting up. Are they now asking the question John's disciples asked? Mat. 11:3 Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? We have repented, trusted in you for salvation, & our fellow Jews are persecuting us; are you really the one who would redeem Israel? Luke 24:21 Are we following Jesus to glory, or to suffering & death? Where is our victory? Isa. 25:8 Is the question of Acts 1:6 high in their thoughts.

 

The life, death & resurrrection of Jesus, & the Pentecost Gospel was a matter of living memory, & they were evidently becoming discouraged. What about us, 2,000 years on? 

 

Hebrews is determined to remind his readers that Jesus certainly is the Messiah, the prophesied Son of God. But there are warnings as well as promises, so he asks a deadly serious question in Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?

 

 

[Covenanter]

I don't propose a verse by verse commentary, but an attempt at understanding by the themes of each chapter.

[Genevanpreacher]

Ok. I will keep an eye on your posts. I am curious if

what I 'read' in the text is of the same mind as yours.

 

Bed time. Nighty night.