It Shall Be An Everlasting Covenant With Them

[beameup]

Isn't it interesting how those who hold "Replacement Theology" (aka: "Covenant"), completely ignore references by Jesus concerning Daniels "70 Week" prophecy?  They "know the Scriptures" and yet "do err". hmmmmmm

 

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Matthew 24:15

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Mark 13:14

 

Now, consider the three decrees concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem, only one specifies rebuilding the wall (and gates):

Ezra 6:14b

And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of

(1st)  Cyrus, and

(2nd) Darius, and

(3rd)  Artaxerxes king of Persia.  (Recorded in Nehemiah)

Only the Commandment/Decree of Artaxerxes specifies the establishment of the city-state of Jerusalem by building the walls.

Calculating from the Commandment of Artaxerxes until the "Triumphal Entry" of Jesus as Messiah into Jerusalem riding on a donkey

is 483 years (ie: 69 Weeks). 

That still leaves one "week" to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 9, which includes the "abomination of desolation". 

There is no historical evidence that such an event as a "abomination of desolation" ever took place.

 

How "convenient" to overlook this "little detail" of a Prophecy given to Daniel by God through the Angel.

[Genevanpreacher]

Isn't it interesting how those who hold "Replacement Theology" (aka: "Covenant"), completely ignore references by Jesus concerning Daniels "70 Week" prophecy?  They "know the Scriptures" and yet "do err". hmmmmmm

 

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Matthew 24:15

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Mark 13:14

 

Now, consider the three decrees concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem, only one specifies rebuilding the wall (and gates):

Ezra 6:14b

And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of

(1st)  Cyrus, and

(2nd) Darius, and

(3rd)  Artaxerxes king of Persia.  (Recorded in Nehemiah)

Only the Commandment/Decree of Artaxerxes specifies the establishment of the city-state of Jerusalem by building the walls.

Calculating from the Commandment of Artaxerxes until the "Triumphal Entry" of Jesus as Messiah into Jerusalem riding on a donkey

is 483 years (ie: 69 Weeks). 

That still leaves one "week" to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 9, which includes the "abomination of desolation". 

There is no historical evidence that such an event as a "abomination of desolation" ever took place.

 

How "convenient" to overlook this "little detail" of a Prophecy given to Daniel by God through the Angel.

 

For lack of better use, the first book of Maccabees does record an historical event called that during the reign of Antiochus.

 

I quote: 1 Maccabees 1:57 - "The fifteenth day of Casleu, in the hundredth and five and fortieth year, they set up the abomination

                                             of desolation upon the altar, and they builded altars throughout the cities of Judah on every side."

 

Now I know most people do not put stock in this book, but it is an historical book with a lot of info.

And does date about 135 BC (some do date it a little later, about 100 BC), which does predate the New Testament

[No Nicolaitans]

For lack of better use, the first book of Maccabees does record an historical event called that during the reign of Antiochus.

 

I quote: 1 Maccabees 1:57 - "The fifteenth day of Casleu, in the hundredth and five and fortieth year, they set up the abomination

                                             of desolation upon the altar, and they builded altars throughout the cities of Judah on every side."

 

Now I know most people do not put stock in this book, but it is an historical book with a lot of info.

And does date about 135 BC (some do date it a little later, about 100 BC), which does predate the New Testament

 

But the Lord spoke of a future event...not one from the past. 

[Covenanter]

Isn't it interesting how those who hold "Replacement Theology" (aka: "Covenant"), completely ignore references by Jesus concerning Daniels "70 Week" prophecy?  They "know the Scriptures" and yet "do err". hmmmmmm

 

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Matthew 24:15

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - Mark 13:14

"20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

 

Isn't it interesting that futurists ignore Luke's version of Jesus' Olivet prophecy. No - it's a blatant rejection of clear teaching. I'll quote more fully in the hope that you will understand.

 

Mat. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

Mark 13:

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

Well, Scripture does say "(whoso readeth, let him understand:)" & Luke spells out what Jesus meant by the abomination. Note Lev. 11:13 If YOU read carefully, you can understand.      

 

 

Now, consider the three decrees concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem, only one specifies rebuilding the wall (and gates):

Ezra 6:14b

And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of

(1st)  Cyrus, and

(2nd) Darius, and

(3rd)  Artaxerxes king of Persia.  (Recorded in Nehemiah)

Only the Commandment/Decree of Artaxerxes specifies the establishment of the city-state of Jerusalem by building the walls.

Calculating from the Commandment of Artaxerxes until the "Triumphal Entry" of Jesus as Messiah into Jerusalem riding on a donkey

is 483 years (ie: 69 Weeks). 

That still leaves one "week" to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel 9, which includes the "abomination of desolation". 

There is no historical evidence that such an event as a "abomination of desolation" ever took place.

 

How "convenient" to overlook this "little detail" of a Prophecy given to Daniel by God through the Angel.

 

Messiah was cut off, but not for himself in the middle of the 70th week - 1/2 a week after his anointing. Another 1/2 week takes us to the absolute rejection of Messiah by the Jewish leaders - who also rejected & persecuted the thousands of Jewish believers, causing them to scatter around the Mediterranean, preaching the Gospel. After that, all that remained for that generation of national Israel was tribulation & the destruction, by Roman armies with their abominable eagle standards.

 

The Jewish believers understood the prophecy & fled the city when they saw the signs Jesus had given. 

[beameup]

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thes 2:3-4  Written by Paul in 54 A.D.

 

This is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the Prophet.

From the Commandment of Artaxerxes until the Triumphal Entry (of Jesus into Jerusalem) is EXACTLY "69 Weeks" (of years) or 483 years, to the very day!

So, you have a 7 year period (ie: "Week") for the Antichrist to appear and then to present himself as God in the Temple of God.  This remains unfulfilled.

[candlelight]

The literal wording in Scripture indicates 70 weeks, not 69 weeks plus a huge gap of "weeks" that don't count, finally to be followed by what will be called the 70th week.

 

There is no book of Josephus in my Bible.

 

Of course, there is no Book of Josephus in the Bible John.  I don't think Beam was saying that, at all.  Have you ever studied the works of Josephus Flavius?  It is quite an interesting study. 

[Covenanter]

 

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thes 2:3-4  Written by Paul in 54 A.D.

 

This is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel the Prophet.

From the Commandment of Artaxerxes until the Triumphal Entry (of Jesus into Jerusalem) is EXACTLY "69 Weeks" (of years) or 483 years, to the very day!

So, you have a 7 year period (ie: "Week") for the Antichrist to appear and then to present himself as God in the Temple of God.  This remains unfulfilled.

 

Where do you get your precise dates ??? Not from the Bible text.  You are trying to refute Scripture by spurious "knowledge." 

 

Read what Luke understands the abomination to be - the Roman armies. Luke 21:20-22 

[beameup]

Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" committed the Abomination of Desolation in 167 B.C. 

Those who lived in the 1st century clearly understood what Jesus was talking about,

and they understood that it was yet future. 

 

There is historical evidence of this, as well it is recorded in 1st Maccabees.

The Decree of Artexeres to rebuild the Jerusalem wall is also well established.

 

The cleansing of the Temple from Antiochus' desecration is celebrated at Hanukkah

and is recorded in John's gospel as the only Jewish holy day that is in winter.

[Covenanter]

Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" committed the Abomination of Desolation in 167 B.C. 

Those who lived in the 1st century clearly understood what Jesus was talking about,

and they understood that it was yet future. 

 

There is historical evidence of this, as well it is recorded in 1st Maccabees.

The Decree of Artexeres to rebuild the Jerusalem wall is also well established.

 

The cleansing of the Temple from Antiochus' desecration is celebrated at Hanukkah

and is recorded in John's gospel as the only Jewish holy day that is in winter.

We still don't know the exact date of Jesus' birth, baptism/anointing & death/resurection, nor his triumphal entry. We can accept the accuracy of Daniel 9 - it's Scripture - but not identify the exact year.

 

Of course the first century Jews knew Jesus' prophecy was future - they heard his words as reported by the Apostles - and he introduced his Olivet prophecy by announcing the total destruction of the temple & Jerusalem. Paul told the Thessalonians  the destruction had to happen before the coming of Christ for resurrection & judgement. 2 The. 2:1-12  The details of the destruction, timings, antichristian persons, etc, are not recorded in Scripture, but they had enough information to take action & flee the city.

 

You are trying to prove your interpretation of Scripture by information that is not in Scripture.

[John81]

Yes, some of Josephus is interesting but it's not totally accurate and it's not Scripture. We can't claim the Bible says or doesn't say something based upon what some man has written. When determining what the Bible says, or doesn't say, we must compare Scripture with Scripture.

 

I love history and I love reading historical and biographical books, but we have to be careful not to make claims regarding biblical matters based upon any works of men.

[beameup]

 

 

You are trying to prove your interpretation of Scripture by information that is not in Scripture.

The accurate historical evidence of the Commandment/Decree of Artaxerxes concerning the rebuilding of the WALL of Jerusalem

has been known since the 19th Century.  But when you impose "Replacement Theology" on scripture, then such facts are irrelevant.

 

Ezra and Nehemiah are devoted to this time period.  However, force-fitting a Replacement Theology "template" on doctrine, of necessity,

 requires the force-fitting of scripture in order to establish the Replacement Theology.

Thus, the Replacement Theology "template" requires the adaptation of preterism, symbolism and allegory on Scripture, as well as "dismisal" of any contradictory historical evidence, in order to hold onto Replacement Theology

[Covenanter]

The accurate historical evidence of the Commandment/Decree of Artaxerxes concerning the rebuilding of the WALL of Jerusalem

has been known since the 19th Century.  But when you impose "Replacement Theology" on scripture, then such facts are irrelevant.

 

Ezra and Nehemiah are devoted to this time period.  However, force-fitting a Replacement Theology "template" on doctrine, of necessity,

 requires the force-fitting of scripture in order to establish the Replacement Theology.

Thus, the Replacement Theology "template" requires the adaptation of preterism, symbolism and allegory on Scripture, as well as "dismisal" of any contradictory historical evidence, in order to hold onto Replacement Theology

Ah - now I understand - you rely on 19th C modern scholarship to prove or disprove the words of Scripture. I know Ezra & Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah & Malachi are post exilic books, but they do not establish a precise date for either the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, nor the date of Jesus' life events. Daniel's prophecies cover the inter-testamental years in such detail that modernist scholars accuse him of writing AFTER the events.

 

Is there ANYTHING in my posts that justifies your attack:

 

Thus, the Replacement Theology "template" requires the adaptation of preterism, symbolism and allegory on Scripture, as well as "dismisal" of any contradictory historical evidence, in order to hold onto Replacement Theology

Give SPECIFIC examples, as otherwise it is clear you are just using empty words to attack me & build your straw house. You are just using "replacement theology" as an expletive to reject what I write - even though I do not teach RT.

 

As far as accepted historical evidence is concerned, Jerusalem was besieged by the Romans, withdrew briefly allowing the Christians to escape the city according to the Olivet prophecy & warnings, 3 1/2 years before the destruction, & about 40 years after the crucifixion, the temple was burned & dismantled stone by stone, again according to Jesus' Olivet prophecy, & the Jews & other defenders were killed, enslaved or scattered. Also, according to Jesus' command & Olivet prophecy, the Gospel went out into all the world - Scripture records the Roman empire, the Mediterranean region, Ethiopia, Babylon, without mentioning the activities of most of the Apostles.

[Genevanpreacher]

But the Lord spoke of a future event...not one from the past. 

 

Yes, but I was answering this statement- "There is no historical evidence that such an event as a "abomination of desolation" ever took place".

 

When I said this I was in no wise meaning that this was what Jesus was referring to.

Just having fun with a history fact.

[Genevanpreacher]

Uh, why can't people who disagree with Covenanter, (and myself), use the phrase Covenant Theology, instead of the aggravating terminology Replacement Theology?

It truly seems that irritation is the end result of someone 'running out of patience'.

I do it too. We are human.

Maybe we could try to do better?

Maybe knowing what a person would 'rather' hear, in a Christian adult conversation,

as a title for what they 'believe', and using that title, would 'produce' fellowship, instead of 'violent' division.

[EKSmith]

The map is from Ezekiel 47, the "Millennial" map.  Note the "tribes" are parallel (unlike O.T. times).

We can expect these borders PRIOR to the Tribulation (OBviously "enlarged" by another Arab-Israeli war).

where did you find this map you're showing.it appears to be much smaller an it doesn't seem to fit with the math given by God to Ezekiel it looks more like Israel today then the future Millennial Kingdom