How Old Is The Earth

[AVBibleBeliever]

Actually, I was pointing out that you need to take it private and the rest of us need to stop talking about it. So let's, um, stop. Capische?

Capische.

[HappyChristian]

SFIC - that stop goes for you, too. Enough already. Past enough.

[Alimantado]

Thanks, Al.  I would like to read that one.

 
Candlelight, >here's my post where I first spell out SFIC's "Different Jesus" argument. >Here's where OFP also spells it out. >Here's where SFIC responds that, yes, he is saying what we think he's saying. >Here's another summary by me. >Here's another post by SFIC confirming what he thinks, and >here.
 
And here's an excellent rebuttal to SFIC's position, by John81:
 

When Scripture refers to false christs, it refers to those presenting a false gospel, it's not referring to someone having a wrong impression, view, understanding or belief in every aspect of Christ Jesus.
 
If a born again believer thinks Jesus may have drank some wine that no more makes them a believer in a false christ  than it would the person who believes Jesus had long hair.
 
I know from my own personal experience, as well as from speaking with countless Christians, that most came to faith in Christ with a rather limited understanding of Christ beyond the very basic of bascis.
 
Those believers who think Jesus may have drank wine could be said to be wrong, mistaken, ill-informed, or such, but not that they believe in a false christ.

Lest anyone should say I'm getting personal, what I'm interested in is the argument/proposition itself. It doesn't matter to me that it happens to be SFIC who was/is making it.

[Alimantado]

Ignore the alcohol refences, btw, as that was just the context at the time--you can substitute it for whatever topic you like, such as gap theory, as per this thread, or, as John points out, long hair.

[HappyChristian]

Well, the problem is, Carl, that it will be taken as an attack on SFIC....so let's get back to topic, okay?

Thanks.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Okay, you lost me. I have one question to help me understand: where in these beginnings do you place the creation of any living (mortal, not necessarily human) creatures?

I think I let this thread sit long enough for some who were very nuaghty to col off a bit.  I wanted to answer some questions.

 

So Salya, are you speaking of Proverbs 8? 

 

If so God's heavenly host like Angels, Arch Angels, Cherubim and Seraphim were created sometime after the Lord Possessed Him (the me in vs22) Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. and during his works of old.  PrOBably between the beginning of his ways and during his works of old, I would say one of the first things God did was to create angels and other beings as ministers unto him and his Son.

Edited August 6, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[Invicta]

Oh yes, none of us know the age of the earth. Some say that between Genesis1:1 and Genesis 1:2 , that God cast Lucifer to the earth, which contaminated it, turning it to a formless wasteland and creating Hell at the same time.  The Lord Jesus, being the Creator, said he "beheld" Satan fall like lighting to the earth.

1 ¶  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 ¶  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

 

Before the first day there was no time, only eternity

[DaveW]

I think I let this thread sit long enough for some who were very nuaghty to col off a bit. I wanted to answer some questions.

So Salya, are you speaking of Proverbs 8?

If so God's heavenly host like Angels, Arch Angels, Cherubim and Seraphim were created sometime after the Lord Possessed Him (the me in vs22) Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. and during his works of old. PrOBably between the beginning of his ways and during his works of old, I would say one of the first things God did was to create angels and other beings as ministers unto him and his Son.

In another thread you said that a teaching is a false doctrine if it is not in the Bible (or something along those lines).
Now you use the phrase "I would say....." and make a statement that has no clearly identifiable biblical support.
You need to be consistent.
The fact is that we are not told precisely when angels were created, there for to put their creation first is no different to that other discussion.
Angels WERE created, but when is not for us to know.

[AVBibleBeliever]

In another thread you said that a teaching is a false doctrine if it is not in the Bible (or something along those lines).
Now you use the phrase "I would say....." and make a statement that has no clearly identifiable biblical support.
You need to be consistent.
The fact is that we are not told precisely when angels were created, there for to put their creation first is no different to that other discussion.
Angels WERE created, but when is not for us to know.

I am glad you understand that many think they were created during the 6 day work of God outlined in Genesis 1:3-31.

 

I believe it was before that.  If I look at scriptures I too like others make assumption on points like the creation of Angels. with verse like in JOB about the sons of God shouting for Joy at the foundation of the earth. So if Genesis 1:1 has the earth being created then the sons of God and the morning stars were created before the Earth was in Proverbs 8 and after the Lord Possessed him in the beginning of his ways.  Making two beginnings. 

 

I qualified my statement with "PrOBably" so I did not say for sure or it is a fact.  Like those who would say the body of Christ IS IN the New Jerusalem.  that is where My assumptions differ.  I don't at least I try not to, make my assumptions the same as the word of God.

 

my consistency is in how I word things of which you may have over looked.  But I am prone to err just like others. Words Like PrOBably, might or may be, Possible are words I use to describe things that I am speculating on but not trying to make it equal to the word of God.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The sons of God could not have been created before the first day of creation.  If they had been, then Exodus 20:11 is a lie.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The sons of God had to have been created during the six day period of the creation.

And then, there is the possibility that "sons of God" is not speaking of angels at all.  I find no verse in the entire Word of God that specifically says angels were sons of God.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Standing Firm In Christ

[prophet1]

The sons of God could not have been created before the first day of creation. If they had been, then Exodus 20:11 is a lie.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The sons of God had to have been created during the six day period of the creation.

And then, there is the possibility that "sons of God" is not speaking of angels at all. I find no verse in the entire Word of God that specifically says angels were sons of God.

How about one that specifically says that no angel is a son of God?

Heb 1:5
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Heb 1:13-14
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Angels are sent forth to mnister to the sons of God, the heirs of salvation, joint-heirs with Christ.

[DaveW]

Unless you are suggesting that angels are not created beings, I fail to see the relevance.

Maybe you ought to try to explain your point further.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Oh, i believe the sons of God mentioned in JOB were created beings. I just am not convinced they are angels.

[prophet1]

Unless you are suggesting that angels are not created beings, I fail to see the relevance.

Maybe you ought to try to explain your point further.

The relevance is that the sons of God are tied to Time. The angels are created in eternity, where time doesn't exist.

And God here separates any possible cross reference.

[prophet1]

How about this? Gen 4:26 26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos:then began men to call upon the name of the Lord. Rom 10:13 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Jn 1:12-13 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. How about JOB was referring to Christ? You know, since the Earth isn't a square building, set on a foundation, with a laid cornerstone. JOB 38:4-9 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Isa 28:16 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Edited August 9, 2014 by prophet1