Members rstrats Posted June 25, 2013 Author Members Posted June 25, 2013 John the Baptist, re: "He could not have been in the grave three 24 hour days and nights." So it looks like you are implying that Matthew 12:40 is an idiom. To support that idea do you know of any writing as requested in the OP? BTW, John 19:14 says that it was the "Preparation Day of the Passover". It doesn't say that it was the preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
Members Invicta Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 There was an Annual High Sabbath on Thursday of that year. He was buried before sundown on Wednesday, without ointments and spices. Friday, the ladies went shopping for the spices for the body. Saturday was a normal Sabbath. Sunday at daybreak the tomb was opened.Thw The women went to the tomb while it was yet dark, so must have been before daybreak. Matt. 28:1. tells us it was towards the end of the Sabbath, i.e. Saturday evening at twilight. Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Exactly 72 hours after the body was put in the grave.
Members beameup Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 The women went to the tomb while it was yet dark, so must have been before daybreak. Matt. 28:1. tells us it was towards the end of the Sabbath, i.e. Saturday evening at twilight. Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Exactly 72 hours after the body was put in the grave. The Saturday Sabbath ended at the crack of dawn. It clearly states that they came as it began to dawn on Sunday (first day of the week). Galileans observed from dawn to dawn, while those in Judea observed from dusk to dusk (Genesis: "evening and morning" the first day).
Members Invicta Posted June 26, 2013 Members Posted June 26, 2013 The Saturday Sabbath ended at the crack of dawn. It clearly states that they came as it began to dawn on Sunday (first day of the week). Galileans observed from dawn to dawn, while those in Judea observed from dusk to dusk (Genesis: "evening and morning" the first day). Dawn probably means to begin. The sabbath ended on Saturday evening, no need to invent a Galilean element. Jesus was put in the tomb as the Sabbath began, so 3 days and three nights would end at the same time of day. The three days and three nights refer to the time that He was in the tomb.
Members rstrats Posted September 27, 2013 Author Members Posted September 27, 2013 Since it's been awhile, someone new looking in (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who tries to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language where 3 nights actually means 2 nights) may know of some writing.
Members Alimantado Posted October 1, 2013 Members Posted October 1, 2013 Since it's been awhile, someone new looking in (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who tries to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language where 3 nights actually means 2 nights) may know of some writing. In other words,
Members rstrats Posted May 20, 2014 Author Members Posted May 20, 2014 I also should have included in the OP: "...and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.
Members rstrats Posted August 10, 2014 Author Members Posted August 10, 2014 John the Baptist, You have a question directed to you in post #61.
Members rstrats Posted December 14, 2015 Author Members Posted December 14, 2015 Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? Again, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, as I said, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted December 14, 2015 Moderators Posted December 14, 2015 That I am aware of, there is nothing like that, that lays out such ideas on time. However, I do believe that God laid out pretty clearly what HE sees as a day, in the creation week. "The evening and the morning were the first day..." A day consists of an evening and a morning. Does it mean is must be a complete 72 hour period? Not necessarily, I suppose, but enough to make it reasonable. because of this, the local idiom doesn't matter-the word was written by God according to His knowledge of things, not man's local idioms and turns of phrase. If God said three days and three nights, that's what He meant. The idea was invented probably by the Catholics, along with the idiom explanation. They feel free to invent whatever they like and call it fact because the Pope, their voice of God on earth, has declared it, and as such, it is truth. They say. Alan 1
Members John81 Posted December 15, 2015 Members Posted December 15, 2015 15 hours ago, Ukulelemike said: That I am aware of, there is nothing like that, that lays out such ideas on time. However, I do believe that God laid out pretty clearly what HE sees as a day, in the creation week. "The evening and the morning were the first day..." A day consists of an evening and a morning. Does it mean is must be a complete 72 hour period? Not necessarily, I suppose, but enough to make it reasonable. because of this, the local idiom doesn't matter-the word was written by God according to His knowledge of things, not man's local idioms and turns of phrase. If God said three days and three nights, that's what He meant. The idea was invented probably by the Catholics, along with the idiom explanation. They feel free to invent whatever they like and call it fact because the Pope, their voice of God on earth, has declared it, and as such, it is truth. They say. Some Christians get stuck right there at the very beginning of Scripture with the creation account and just what is meant by "day". We even have a couple in our church that can't come to accept that in creating time God created the literal 24 hour day and created the earth just as stated in Genesis, in 6 literal days. Naturally, not accepting a creation day as a literal 24 hour day causes them many other problems, including aspects of young earth vs old earth, matters involving evolution, Noah's ark, dinosaurs, the wide variety within species, and the amount of time Jesus spent in the tomb (among other things). It seems there is a growing issue among many Christians in this area with regards to matters of time. Depending upon the conclusion a person comes to on this can greatly impact how they view a wide variety of things in Scripture. Some views, if taken to their logical conclusion, would even place the Scripture itself in question. As to the time Jesus spent in the tomb, I believe it was just as stated in Scripture and the plain, simple understanding is accurate. If I recall correctly from readings years ago, it was the RCC which began the short, partial time in the tomb with their invention of "Good Friday". In that view Jesus was barely in the tomb before Friday ended but they still call that one day; then Jesus spent all of Saturday in the tomb but was only in the tomb for a brief portion of Sunday which they count as a day. That view doesn't match the literal meaning of what Scripture says. Alan and JerryNumbers 2
Members rstrats Posted December 15, 2015 Author Members Posted December 15, 2015 15 minutes ago, John81 said: John81, Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion proponent you probably won't know of any writing.
Members Invicta Posted December 15, 2015 Members Posted December 15, 2015 There are three different times given not two. In three days Three days and three nights After three days. They must all mean the same and I believe that Three Days and Three Nights is the exact time. God is a God of exactness. Twilight on Wednesday till twilight on Saturday evening. Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Alan and John81 2
Members swathdiver Posted December 16, 2015 Members Posted December 16, 2015 10 hours ago, John81 said: Some Christians get stuck right there at the very beginning of Scripture with the creation account and just what is meant by "day". We even have a couple in our church that can't come to accept that in creating time God created the literal 24 hour day and created the earth just as stated in Genesis, in 6 literal days. Naturally, not accepting a creation day as a literal 24 hour day causes them many other problems, including aspects of young earth vs old earth, matters involving evolution, Noah's ark, dinosaurs, the wide variety within species, and the amount of time Jesus spent in the tomb (among other things). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 Alan 1
Members JerryNumbers Posted December 16, 2015 Members Posted December 16, 2015 12 hours ago, John81 said: Some Christians get stuck right there at the very beginning of Scripture with the creation account and just what is meant by "day". We even have a couple in our church that can't come to accept that in creating time God created the literal 24 hour day and created the earth just as stated in Genesis, in 6 literal days. Naturally, not accepting a creation day as a literal 24 hour day causes them many other problems, including aspects of young earth vs old earth, matters involving evolution, Noah's ark, dinosaurs, the wide variety within species, and the amount of time Jesus spent in the tomb (among other things). It seems there is a growing issue among many Christians in this area with regards to matters of time. Depending upon the conclusion a person comes to on this can greatly impact how they view a wide variety of things in Scripture. Some views, if taken to their logical conclusion, would even place the Scripture itself in question. As to the time Jesus spent in the tomb, I believe it was just as stated in Scripture and the plain, simple understanding is accurate. If I recall correctly from readings years ago, it was the RCC which began the short, partial time in the tomb with their invention of "Good Friday". In that view Jesus was barely in the tomb before Friday ended but they still call that one day; then Jesus spent all of Saturday in the tomb but was only in the tomb for a brief portion of Sunday which they count as a day. That view doesn't match the literal meaning of what Scripture says. I read lots of post, but do not post. I had to say Amen to your post John and to mark it liked by me, your 100% correct. Its amazing at the teaching that comes form people on this topic. John81 and Alan 2
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