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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutey doesn't/can't include at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?

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I think it’s Thursday, too. Oh, and I’m closing this thread. I see no value in having it periodically reopened in case there’s someone here to start an argument. 

Hmmmn: please excuse my apparent clueless-ness here, but as I see it: 1) The OP here was yours, not someone here claiming such idiomatic usage. Why should we source it??? 2) Maybe nobody has

A Jewish day began at 6am (sunrise) and night began at 6pm (sunset).  The Baptist Challenge and the Baptist Pillar have articles showing the biblical timeline for Christ's arrest, trial, crucifixtion,

ASongOfDegrees,


 

re: "What is a 'sixth day crucifixion'" folk?"



It's someone who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the sixth day of the week.



 

 


 

re: "Do you mean those who say Christ rose from the dead on Saturday?"



NO. See above.

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ASongOfDegrees

 

re:  "I think you need to simplify your question because I've read it a few times over and still don't know what you are asking."

 

 

I'm afraid I can't ask it any more clearly than I have.   Thanks for at least reading it, though. 

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I think you need to simplify your question because I've read it a few times over and still don't know what you are asking.

 

I've tried to as well and it appears to be talking about a logical contradiction.

 

If a period of time is defined by a number of days and nights but the period of time also can't include "at least a part of each of" the given days and nights, then the period of time can't include any of the days and nights given to define it. Expressing a period of time that way would be like saying 'January 1st, defined as March 5th'.

 

Obviously he can't be asking about that so I must be getting confused somewhere...

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A Jewish day began at 6am (sunrise) and night began at 6pm (sunset).  The Baptist Challenge and the Baptist Pillar have articles showing the biblical timeline for Christ's arrest, trial, crucifixtion, death and resurrection.  I have also created an excel spreadsheet that I would be happy to share if you send me your e-mail address in a PM.

 

Jesus was in the tomb for 3 full and literal days and nights, not as the Catholics and Protestants teach.

 

At exactly sundown (6pm) (Wednesday, Nisan 14th ended at 5:59pm) Thursday, Nisan the 15th Christ was buried.  The 15th of Nisan was a High Passover Sabbath day.  The 14th was Passover.  16 Nisan was Jewish Friday.  Jesus came out of the tomb at 6pm on Nisan the 18th, Sunday.  For us, that would be 6pm on Saturday.  3 literal days and nights just as he said he would be. 

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swathdiver,

 

Do you have any information asked for in the OP?

 

Only from what I've read in the Baptist Challenge and Baptist Pillar articles.  My faith in the bible is sufficient enough for me, the claim of those using the MVs confuses the facts and they'll never learn anyway.

 

Why is it that important?

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swathdiver,

 

re: "Only from what I've read in the Baptist Challenge and Baptist Pillar articles."

 

OK, maybe someone new looking in will know of some writing.

 

 

 

re: "Why is it that important?"

 

In order to try to determine if the 6th day crucifixion adherents' argument about Matthew 12:40 being an idiom can be shown to be a possibility due to its use in other writings.

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Why is it so hard not to take Jesus Christ at his word?

 

Swathdriver, take a look at the OP again and see if you can crystalise what Rstrats' question actually is. If, like SongofDegrees and I, you can't make any sense of it, is there even anything for you to engage with here?

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Swathdriver, take a look at the OP again and see if you can crystalise what Rstrats' question actually is. If, like SongofDegrees and I, you can't make any sense of it, is there even anything for you to engage with here?

 

This thread should be locked...how about it rst?

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I've tried to as well and it appears to be talking about a logical contradiction.

 

If a period of time is defined by a number of days and nights but the period of time also can't include "at least a part of each of" the given days and nights, then the period of time can't include any of the days and nights given to define it. Expressing a period of time that way would be like saying 'January 1st, defined as March 5th'.

 

Obviously he can't be asking about that so I must be getting confused somewhere...

 

This has always been a problem for many, & those who have a problem with it never seem able to leave it alone.

 

They say, it has to be exactly three, 3, days, & exactly three, 3, nights, not one second more, not one second more.

 

I'm of the persuasion that it was 3 days & 3 nights, back in my truck driving days of cross country trucking most of the time I was gone for at least 5 to 7 days before returning home. Yet once in a while I would make a very short trip & be gone for 3 days & three nights. When I was gone for 3 days & 3 nights it means, I left today & I was gone from home 3 different days & 3 different nights, not necessarily a complete & exact precise 72 hours. Yet not being gone an exact precise 72 hours does not mean I was not gone from home 3 days & 3 nights. 

 

I know that I will get brow beaten by many for saying this. It just amazes me how some can be so critical about this period of time, yet seem to use as much liberty as they can gather up in their Christian walk on other subjects, issues, doctrines.

 

But I will not debate this issues with them, I will just let them set around & debate it among their selves & or with those that want to debate this issue. And I will not say not one thing sassy or bad about them behind their back nor to their face.

 

Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

 

Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

Yes, Jonah was in the belly of that big fish 3 days, & 3 nights, yet that does not mane he was in that fish belly for an exact 72 hours.

 

Back years ago the wife & I would go camping once in a while at the lake, many times we were gone three days & three nights, yet we were not gone an exact 72 hours. Probably never were gone an exact 72 hours. Wow, I really enjoyed those days. We had a ski boat, & that was much fun. And thankfully we had some good friends that enjoyed the same type of fun we did & that made it more enjoyably. Of course I was younger back them, & that was before I had much neck trouble, along with a couple of neck surgeries. So now I could not enjoy being gone 3 days & 3 nights from home sleeping in a tent on a pallet on the ground nor skiing behind a boat. 

 

I sure look forward to that day spoken about in this verse.

 

Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

I look forward to all of them, but more especially pain, I guarantee you, living in pain sure does change a person, & until a person has lived it day to day they cannot understand it.

 

God is great, the best is yet to come for those who have Jesus, & for those who don't have Jesus, this is as good as it gets.

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1Tim115,

 

re: "What part of the Bible do these folks get their argument from?"

 

 

Some try to use Esther 4:16 and 5, 1 Samuel 30:12 and 13, and 2 Chronicles 10:5 and 12. However, none of these preclude at least a part of each one of the specified days nor at least a part of each one of the specified nights.

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Two or three years ago I did an in depth study of the timeline of the Crucifixtion and learned from the Scriptures that Christ was in the tomb 3 full days and 3 full nights, just as Jonah was in the whale.  It was a fascinating study.  Sadly, I still have relatives who walk around with soot ashes on their forehead and collect palm fronds.

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This has always been a problem for many, & those who have a problem with it never seem able to leave it alone.

 

They say, it has to be exactly three, 3, days, & exactly three, 3, nights, not one second more, not one second more.

 

I'm of the persuasion that it was 3 days & 3 nights, back in my truck driving days of cross country trucking most of the time I was gone for at least 5 to 7 days before returning home. Yet once in a while I would make a very short trip & be gone for 3 days & three nights. When I was gone for 3 days & 3 nights it means, I left today & I was gone from home 3 different days & 3 different nights, not necessarily a complete & exact precise 72 hours. Yet not being gone an exact precise 72 hours does not mean I was not gone from home 3 days & 3 nights. 

 

I know that I will get brow beaten by many for saying this. It just amazes me how some can be so critical about this period of time, yet seem to use as much liberty as they can gather up in their Christian walk on other subjects, issues, doctrines.

 

But I will not debate this issues with them, I will just let them set around & debate it among their selves & or with those that want to debate this issue. And I will not say not one thing sassy or bad about them behind their back nor to their face.

 

Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

 

Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

Yes, Jonah was in the belly of that big fish 3 days, & 3 nights, yet that does not mane he was in that fish belly for an exact 72 hours.

 

Back years ago the wife & I would go camping once in a while at the lake, many times we were gone three days & three nights, yet we were not gone an exact 72 hours. Probably never were gone an exact 72 hours. Wow, I really enjoyed those days. We had a ski boat, & that was much fun. And thankfully we had some good friends that enjoyed the same type of fun we did & that made it more enjoyably. Of course I was younger back them, & that was before I had much neck trouble, along with a couple of neck surgeries. So now I could not enjoy being gone 3 days & 3 nights from home sleeping in a tent on a pallet on the ground nor skiing behind a boat. 

 

I sure look forward to that day spoken about in this verse.

 

Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

I look forward to all of them, but more especially pain, I guarantee you, living in pain sure does change a person, & until a person has lived it day to day they cannot understand it.

 

God is great, the best is yet to come for those who have Jesus, & for those who don't have Jesus, this is as good as it gets.

Many thanks for this, Jerry.

 

Carl

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This has always been a problem for many, & those who have a problem with it never seem able to leave it alone.

 

They say, it has to be exactly three, 3, days, & exactly three, 3, nights, not one second more, not one second more.

 

I'm of the persuasion that it was 3 days & 3 nights, back in my truck driving days of cross country trucking most of the time I was gone for at least 5 to 7 days before returning home. Yet once in a while I would make a very short trip & be gone for 3 days & three nights. When I was gone for 3 days & 3 nights it means, I left today & I was gone from home 3 different days & 3 different nights, not necessarily a complete & exact precise 72 hours. Yet not being gone an exact precise 72 hours does not mean I was not gone from home 3 days & 3 nights. 

 

I know that I will get brow beaten by many for saying this. It just amazes me how some can be so critical about this period of time, yet seem to use as much liberty as they can gather up in their Christian walk on other subjects, issues, doctrines.

 

But I will not debate this issues with them, I will just let them set around & debate it among their selves & or with those that want to debate this issue. And I will not say not one thing sassy or bad about them behind their back nor to their face.

 

Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

 

Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

Yes, Jonah was in the belly of that big fish 3 days, & 3 nights, yet that does not mane he was in that fish belly for an exact 72 hours.

 

Back years ago the wife & I would go camping once in a while at the lake, many times we were gone three days & three nights, yet we were not gone an exact 72 hours. Probably never were gone an exact 72 hours. Wow, I really enjoyed those days. We had a ski boat, & that was much fun. And thankfully we had some good friends that enjoyed the same type of fun we did & that made it more enjoyably. Of course I was younger back them, & that was before I had much neck trouble, along with a couple of neck surgeries. So now I could not enjoy being gone 3 days & 3 nights from home sleeping in a tent on a pallet on the ground nor skiing behind a boat. 

 

I sure look forward to that day spoken about in this verse.

 

Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

I look forward to all of them, but more especially pain, I guarantee you, living in pain sure does change a person, & until a person has lived it day to day they cannot understand it.

 

God is great, the best is yet to come for those who have Jesus, & for those who don't have Jesus, this is as good as it gets.

 

 

But unlike us, God is a God of exactness.  When he judged the Jews by the destruction of the city by the Romans, it was exactly the same day in the calendar that he destroyed it by the Babylonians, Exactly.  

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But unlike us, God is a God of exactness.  When he judged the Jews by the destruction of the city by the Romans, it was exactly the same day in the calendar that he destroyed it by the Babylonians, Exactly.  

 

What is amazing is the exactness some tries to put on this, even some will get hostile with those that think not like them, & with much weightier matters, they pay no never mind doing everything possible seemingly trying to use liberty as an excuse for sin.

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This is an email that I received that seems to have relevance to this topic.
 
Question: I understand that you believe that Jesus died on the cross on Thursday, not Good Friday. Why do you say that, and does it matter?
 
Response: Scripture reveals the answer. Through the writings of Jeremiah, Daniel learned that the Babylonian captivity would last 70 years (Dn 9:2). God had commanded that each seven years the Hebrew slaves should be set free, debtors forgiven, and the land given a one-year sabbath of rest (Ex 21:2;  Lv 25:2-4; Dt 15:1,2,12). For 490 years Israel had disobeyed this precept. In judgment, the Jews became slaves of Babylon while their land rested for 70 years of sabbaths.
 
Daniel confessed this sin, pondering and praying, and was given the revelation that another period of 490 years (70 weeks of years) lay ahead for his people and for Jerusalem (9:24). Then all of Israel's sins would be purged, all prophecy fulfilled and ended, and the Messiah would reign on David's throne in Jerusalem. These 70 weeks of years were to be counted "from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" (v. 25). That crucial date is given to us in Scripture.
 
Nehemiah tells us: "in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king" (2:1), he received the authorization to rebuild Jerusalem. When the day of the month was not given, the first day was intended. There were several Artaxerxes, but only one, Longimanus, who ruled more than 20 years--from 465-425 BC. Thus we have the key date from which this incredible prophecy was to be calculated: Nisan 1, 445 BC.
 
At the end of 69 of these "weeks" (7x69 = 483 years) "Messiah the Prince" would be made known to Israel (Dn 9:25) and then "be cut off [slain]" (v. 26). Counting 483 years of 360 days each (the Hebrew and Babylonian calendar), a total of 173,880 days from Nisan 1, 445 bc brings us to Sunday, April 6, ad 32. On that very day, now celebrated as Palm Sunday, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a young donkey and was hailed as Messiah the Prince! (See also Zec 9:9)
 
There is, however, an even deeper meaning to the phrase, "In the fulness of time": April 6, ad 32, on the Hebrew calendar was the tenth of Nisan. On that day, the Passover lamb was taken from the flock and placed under observation for four days to make certain that it was "without blemish." During the same four days, Christ, whom John the Baptist had hailed as "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (Jn 1:29), was likewise on display before Israel. On the fourteenth of Nisan, "the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it [the passover lamb] in the evening [between 3:00 and 6:00 pm]" (Ex 12:6). It was during that precise time period that Jesus died on the cross!
 
In fact, the rabbis had determined not to arrest Jesus during Passover, "lest there be an uproar of the people" (Mk 14:2). Yet that was when He had to die. Judas was not only Satan's pawn but God's. Even the "thirty pieces of silver" for which he so shrewdly bargained fulfilled prophecy (Zec 11:12-13). Peter would declare in his Pentecost sermon, "Him...delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (Acts 2:23). Paul wrote, "Christ our passover [lamb] is sacrificed for us" (1 Cor 5:7).
 
The fourteenth of Nisan began at sunset Wednesday evening. That night, Jesus and His disciples had the "last supper" in the upper room where they were preparing to eat the Passover the following night. At this meal "before the feast of the passover" (Jn 13:1), Jesus told His disciples, "One of you shall betray me" (Jn 13:21). Earlier He said, significantly, "I tell you before...that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he" (Jn 13:19). The word "he" is in italics and does not appear in the original. Jesus was declaring once again to His disciples that He was Yahweh, the I AM of Israel, who tells beforehand what will happen and makes certain that it comes to pass (Is 46:9-10).
 
Arrested by the Judas-led troop in the Garden later that night, Christ was taken secretly to the palace of Caiaphas, the high priest. A sham trial with hastily called false witnesses convened sometime after midnight and condemned Christ to death as dawn broke. Pilate, the Roman governor, was notified of the emergency. Hurriedly taken down side streets, the prisoner was received into the citadel at "the third hour" (Mk 15:25), (about 9:00 am), Nisan 14. All over Israel preparations were underway to kill the Passover lamb, which was to be eaten that night.
 
Pilate let his citizens decide the prisoner's fate. The bloodthirsty rabble turned against the One who had miraculously healed and fed so many of them. "Crucify him, crucify him" (Lk 23:21). "His blood be on us, and on our children" (Mt 27:25).
 
Shortly before noon, Jesus, scourged and beaten, was led out of the city to "the place of the skull." By noon, the One whom Jerusalem, in fulfillment of prophecy, had hailed as its long-awaited Messiah, was hanging naked on the center cross between two thieves. Man had crucified his Creator!
 
The next three hours of that Thursday afternoon the earth was darkened mysteriously (Mt 27:45) as God "laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Is 53:6). Thursday? Not "Good Friday"? Indeed not. Jesus himself had said, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth [i.e., "Abraham's bosom"]" (Mt 12:40; Lk 16:22). The gospel includes the declaration that Christ "rose again the third day" (1 Cor 15:4).
 
Had Christ been crucified on Friday, He couldn't possibly have spent three days and three nights in the grave by Sunday morning. We are distinctly told that the angel rolled away the stone "as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" (Mt 28:1). The tomb was already empty, so Christ must have risen from the dead sometime prior to dawn.
 
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday--does it really matter? Yes! The day of our Lord's crucifixion is of the utmost importance. If Christ was not three days and three nights in the grave, then He lied. His death, to fulfill prophecy, had to occur at the very time the Passover lambs were being slain throughout Israel. It is an astronomical fact that Nisan 14, AD 32, fell on Thursday.
 
"And it was the preparation of the passover....The Jews therefore...that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day...besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away" (Jn 19:14,31). Wait! Not a bone of the Passover lamb (Ex 12:46) or of the Messiah (Ps 34:20) could be broken. Not knowing why he did it, "one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side" (Jn 19:34), fulfilling yet another scripture: "they shall look upon me whom they pierced" (Zec 12:10).
 
John explains that the "Sabbath," which began at sunset the Thursday Christ was crucified, "was an high day." It was, in fact, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, of which the first and last days were special sabbaths. It ended Friday at sunset,  immediately followed by the weekly sabbath that ended at sunset on Saturday. Thus two sabbaths followed Christ's death, preventing the women from coming to the grave until the third day, Sunday morning.
 
The rabbis thought that having Jesus crucified proved He wasn't the Messiah. In fact, it was one more proof that He was! The soldiers took His clothes for a souvenir and gambled for His robe (Ps 22:18; 69:21); He was given vinegar mixed with gall to drink, nails were driven into His hands and feet, and a spear pierced His side, drawing forth the blood of our redemption--all in fulfillment of prophecy! [Adapted from "The Cradle and the Cross," Dave Hunt, 1992]
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What is amazing is the exactness some tries to put on this, even some will get hostile with those that think not like them, & with much weightier matters, they pay no never mind doing everything possible seemingly trying to use liberty as an excuse for sin.

 

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, Jerry.  What exactly are you accusing me of?  

 

If you are writing about me, I would appreciate it if you name me rather than making it a general accusation by saying "Some people."

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From my calculations Jesus would have been crucified on a Wednesday, buried at the beginning of Thursday (around 6pm) and then rose on Sunday morning around 6am. He would have been in the heart of the earth for three full days and nights.

 

Paul said that Jesus rose again ON the third day. Not after three days. There are a few other instances in the gospels that says it would be on the third day.

 

The truth is there are some verses that say Christ rose on the third day and some that say he rose after three days.

Edited by ASongOfDegrees
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, Jerry.  What exactly are you accusing me of?  

 

If you are writing about me, I would appreciate it if you name me rather than making it a general accusation by saying "Some people."

 

 

 

What I stated is, its amazing the hour, minute, second, moment details, that "Some People" tries to put on the exactness of it being exactly 3 days, & 3 nights, 72 hours to the hour, minute, second, moment, on the time Jesus spent in the tomb & the trouble they will got to to try & prove that point & how they treat much weightier matter, that is they are very lose with other issues claiming "Christian Liberty" in order to convince their self & other they're not sinning against God.
 
And the "Some People," is exactly what I mean.
 
So in answer for your question I will leave it at it is, for that is what I mean.
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make here, Jerry. What exactly are you accusing me of?

If you are writing about me, I would appreciate it if you name me rather than making it a general accusation by saying "Some people."


For what it's worth, I didn't read that as directed at you.......
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From my calculations Jesus would have been crucified on a Wednesday, buried at the beginning of Thursday (around 6pm) and then rose on Sunday morning around 6am. He would have been in the heart of the earth for three full days and nights.

 

There were two Sabbaths that week. One before the Feast of Unleavened Bread ("high day"-John 19:31) and the one before the regular Sabbath. I think this confuses people when it mentions that Jesus was buried on the preparation day (i.e. day before the sabbath). So people come up with the crucifixion on a Friday.

 

Also, Paul said that Jesus rose again ON the third day. Not after three days. There are a few other instances in the gospels that says it would be on the third day.

 

The truth is there are some verses that say Christ rose on the third day and some that say he rose after three days.

 

Yes I believe it was exactly three days and three nights.  God is a God of exactness.  The body of Jesus  was put into he tomb as the Sabbath was beginning and rose as the (2nd) Sabbath was ending, 72 hours later. Matt, 28:1 ¶  In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 
Toward the end of the Sabbath was Saturday evening, just as the 1st day was beginning, Saturday evening.  We also read that after the Sabbath, the women bought spices and then rested, then after the (2nd) Sabbath, they brought them to the tomb.  Scripture is quite clear.
 
Luke 23:56  And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 ¶  Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
 
 
62  Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
63  Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
 
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I cannot possibly see how anyone can justify a 6th day crucifiction.

 

As to when, here are some clues, 

 

 

Within Three Days

Mr 14:58  We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

 

In Three Days

Mt 26:61  And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

Mt 27:40  And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mr 15:29  And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Joh 2:20  Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

 

Three Days and Three Nights

Mt 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

After Three Days

Mt 27:63  Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

Mr 8:31  And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

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