ARE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WARMONGERS?

[John81]

ARE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WARMONGERS?

September 15, 2011 NewsWithViews.com

By Chuck Baldwin

I’ve been an evangelical Christian since I was a child. I’ve been in the Gospel ministry all of my adult life. I attended two evangelical Christian colleges, received honorary degrees from two others, and taught and preached in several others. I’ve attended many of the largest evangelical pastors’ gatherings and have been privileged to speak at Christian gatherings--large and small--all over America. I have been part of the inner workings of evangelical ministry for nearly 40 years. I think I learned a thing or two about evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity in America. And I’m here to tell you: I don’t like what I see happening these days!

Let’s get this straight right out of the gate: nothing touched by man can be perfect, because none of us is perfect. There is no perfect church, perfect school, perfect mission board, perfect Sunday School class, perfect pastor, perfect deacon, or perfect Christian. Until the afterlife, we are all yet encased in Adamic flesh, complete with human weaknesses and imperfections. And only the Pharisaical among us are too proud to admit it.

That said, I do think it is more than fair to say that, historically, Christians have always attempted to be--and have always publicly taught the importance of being--peacemakers. Historically, Christians have preached--and tried to practice--love and brotherhood. The early church was born in a baptism of love and unity. Oh sure, there were always individual misunderstandings and differences, but, on the whole, the church was a loving, caring, compassionate ecclesia.

Mind you, Christians historically were not afraid or ashamed to defend themselves, their families, and their country. The Lord Jesus, Himself (the Prince of Peace), allowed His disciples to carry personal defense weapons (see Luke 22:36,38). Yes, while some Christian sects were conscientious pacifists, these were the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of Christian believers understood the Biblical, Natural Law principle of self-defense. But believing in the right of lawful, God-ordained self-defense was never to be confused with warmongering.

So, what has happened to turn the most peace-loving institution the world has ever known (the New Testament church) into the biggest cheerleaders for war? I’m talking about un-provoked, illegal, unconstitutional, unbiblical--even secret--wars of aggression. The biggest cheerleaders for the unprovoked, unconstitutional, pre-emptive attack and invasion of Iraq were evangelical Christians. Ditto for the war in Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, the attacks in Yemen, etc. Who is calling for the bombing of Iran? Evangelical Christians. Who cheers for sending more and more troops all over the world to maim and kill more and more people (including innocents)? Evangelical Christians. Shoot (pun intended)! Most evangelical Christians didn’t even bat an eye when the federal government sent military and police personnel to murder American citizens, including old men, women, and children--Christian old men, women, and children, no less--outside Waco, Texas.

And where are today’s evangelical Christians giving a second thought regarding their fellow Christian brothers and sisters in many of these Middle Eastern countries that are being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed by the puppet regimes being put in power by the US government--at US taxpayer (including Christian taxpayer) expense? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but more Christians have been persecuted under the US-imposed regime in Iraq than were ever persecuted when Saddam Hussein was in power. Oh! And don’t forget that it was the US government that was responsible for putting Saddam Hussein in power to begin with. The US government set up Osama bin Laden, too. But I digress.

In addition to the “white” wars (the ones everyone knows about), the US government authorizes some 70 black ops commando raids in some 120 countries EVERY DAY. In fact, the secret, black ops military of the US is so large today it now totals more personnel than the ENTIRE MILITARY OF CANADA!

A recent report noted, “In 120 countries across the globe, troops from Special Operations Command carry out their secret war of high-profile assassinations, low-level targeted killings, capture/kidnap operations, kick-down-the-door night raids, joint operations with foreign forces, and training missions with indigenous partners as part of a shadowy conflict unknown to most Americans. Once ‘special’ for being small, lean, outsider outfits, today they are special for their power, access, influence, and aura.”

See the complete

report of America’s secret wars here

Yet, how much of this knowledge would even faze the average evangelical Christian today? All we hear from today’s “churches” is “bomb,” “attack,” “wipe them out,” etc. Then, at the same time, they get all emotional about sending missionaries to the same countries that they had just cheered-on the US military in raining down missiles of death and destruction upon (to bring salvation to the lucky ones that weren’t killed, I suppose).

And who are the ones that belittle and impugn Ron Paul? Evangelical Christians. Why? Because he tells the truth about America’s foreign policy being responsible for much of the hatred and bitterness erupting in foreign countries against us. I guarantee you that many of the “conservative” Republicans who booed Dr. Paul’s comments to this regard at the GOP Presidential debate this week would identify themselves as evangelical Christians.

.

See the

report here

The disciples of our Lord were called “Christians” first by the Gentiles of Antioch, because of the manner in which the disciples reminded them of Christ’s nature and teachings. I never thought I would hear myself say what I’m about to say, but the truth is, the term “Christian” today means anything but Christ-like. To many people today, “Christian” refers to some warmongering, mean-spirited, throw-anyone-to-the-wolves-who-crosses-them person, who then has the audacity to look down their nose in contempt against anyone who disagrees with them for even the smallest reason. And the word “church” has the stigma of being simply an enclave of warmongers to many people today. And that, my friends, is one reason so many people are so turned off with today’s Christianity. And I can’t say that I blame them. I’m turned off too!

Am I a pacifist? Absolutely not! Do I believe an individual, a family, a community, or a nation has the right to protect and defend itself? I absolutely do! And the fellow who breaks into my home or who attacks my loved ones will personally discover I believe that! But this blind support for illegal, immoral, unconstitutional war is anything but Christian. Not only is it turning people against our country among people abroad, it is turning our own countrymen against the Christ we Christians claim to love right here at home.

I dare say that the modern Warfare State would grind to a screeching halt tomorrow if evangelical Christians would simply stop supporting it! And the thing that most evangelical Christians fail to realize is that the Warfare State is one of the primary tools that the evil one is using to usher in his devilish New World Order that even babes in Christ know to be of Satan. Hence, Christians are helping to promote the very thing that Satan, himself, is using to enslave them.

Yes, I’ve been an evangelical Christian for most of my life and an evangelical pastor for all of my adult life. And if we Christians do not quickly repent of this bloodlust that seems to dominate evangelical Christianity today (spiritually and militarily), the word that was first used by un-churched Gentiles to describe Christ’s followers will be used as a curse-word to describe those who facilitated the ruination of our country.

[Wilchbla]

Author says: Yet, how much of this knowledge would even faze the average evangelical Christian today? All we hear from today’s “churches” is “bomb,” “attack,” “wipe them out,” etc.

I've never heard comments like this made in church. In fact, most Christians I know of really don't speak about the wars very much unless they have a son involved.

Author says:I dare say that the modern Warfare State would grind to a screeching halt tomorrow if evangelical Christians would simply stop supporting it!

I highly doubt that.

[JerryNumbers]

It does seem we mess up countries, instead of helping them. And no doubt Christians are worse off in Iraq & many other countries than they were.before the Iraq war started.

And since the start of the Iraq war how many people have died right up to today? Without theses wars would the death rate be many less?

Would this country be neck deep in debt & in such bad condition if we had stayed out of Iraq?

I believe the world would be better off without all of theses wars.

[swathdiver]

Staying out of Iraq and Afghanistan would have been an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel. Not bombing Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programs is an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel.

Like the Vietnam War, the intentions were good but the subversives subverted and turned them into a loss. Same with WW2 and Korea. A free press should not be lying press. A lying press has decieved America for decades, a hundred years or more.

The trouble with America is that we've allowed Godless people into government, people who serve Satan and not the Lord and therefore promote evil knowingly or not at home and around the world. Christian Americans should have never allowed this to happen. Even Jefferson and Franklin recognized that fact.

People are a reflection of their leaders. Generally speaking, if you have Godless, immoral people in charge of anything, the people will begin to reflect their values.

Ohh, I thought Baldwin was an IF Baptist???

Edited September 15, 2011 by swathdiver

[Covenanter]

It does seem we mess up countries, instead of helping them. And no doubt Christians are worse off in Iraq & many other countries than they were.before the Iraq war started.

And since the start of the Iraq war how many people have died right up to today? Without theses wars would the death rate be many less?

Would this country be neck deep in debt & in such bad condition if we had stayed out of Iraq?

I believe the world would be better off without all of theses wars.

Agreed. The recent wars have been started without any clear objective & end point. The effective & on-going situation is a Christian versus Muslim war of attrition. Are we safer as nations? What WMDs should we fear? Civil airliners? Buses & underground trains & cars?

What are the weapons on Christian warfare? (Eph. 6)

[Covenanter]

It's the old error of the state-church relationship, with the state becoming the servant of the church, & waging wars to defend the Gospel. The added dimension is the state of Israel, with in effect new crusades being fought to secure the promised land.

As Buchanan pointed out in another topic, such wars are counter productive, & Gospel integrity is lost.

[DennisD]

Well, there are a few things in the article I don't agree with but I'll highlight a couple. 1) I don't believe evangelists or evangelical Christians were the biggest proponents of the war. I just didn't see that and still don't see it.

2) Not sure where he got his information from on the "black ops" but 70 ops in 120 countries a day? Really? Is he reading "Conspiracy Weekly" or something? His numbers aren't all that good either. 70 ops in 120 countries? Does that even make sense to anyone? Sure, I realize you could be on the border of two or three countries but could that really translate into such a higher number from ops to countries? If he said 120 ops in 70 countries that would have made more sense. It's either a downright lie or he isn't paying attention to where he gets his information. Now, since he said "authorizes" it is a little more plausible but it's not "commando raids" as he puts it. It could be surveillance possibly and not even surveillance with a person but with a "thing".

After i read that, I had a hard time reading much more.

[HappyChristian]

I agree there are quite a few problems with his article, not the least of which is his broadbrushing.

He's absolutely wrong as to the constitutionality of Iraq/Afghanistan, as it was approved by Congress, per Constitutional requirements (unlike Libya, which now has boots on the ground even though it's not a military action...). Bombing Iran has been pushed by evangelical Christians? Names, please. Hmmm - seems that it was actually John McCain, not a Christian, let alone an evangelical, who sang "Bomb Iran," not Christians....And it's odd - most of the RPaul supporters I know and know of are Christians. And the Christians I know who don't like him have solid reasons - and since when is disagreeing with someone impugning that person (and if RP was so great, why didn't Baldwin support him in the last POTUS election, rather than running against him)? Sounds kinda like the idea behind BO's attackwatch nonsense.

Jihad is a religious war. Muslims have declared jihad against us. But the American response was not and is not a religious one.

It is so easy to make broad statements. CBaldwin is good at them.

[Invicta]

Staying out of Iraq and Afghanistan would have been an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel. Not bombing Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programs is an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel.

Like the Vietnam War, the intentions were good but the subversives subverted and turned them into a loss. Same with WW2 and Korea. A free press should not be lying press. A lying press has decieved America for decades, a hundred years or more.

The trouble with America is that we've allowed Godless people into government, people who serve Satan and not the Lord and therefore promote evil knowingly or not at home and around the world. Christian Americans should have never allowed this to happen. Even Jefferson and Franklin recognized that fact.

People are a reflection of their leaders. Generally speaking, if you have Godless, immoral people in charge of anything, the people will begin to reflect their values.

Ohh, I thought Baldwin was an IF Baptist???

Staying out of Iraq and Afghanistan would have been an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel. Not bombing Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programs is an invitation for a nuclear attack on the USA and or Israel.

Like the Vietnam War, the intentions were good but the subversives subverted and turned them into a loss. Same with WW2 and Korea. A free press should not be lying press. A lying press has decieved America for decades, a hundred years or more.

The trouble with America is that we've allowed Godless people into government, people who serve Satan and not the Lord and therefore promote evil knowingly or not at home and around the world. Christian Americans should have never allowed this to happen. Even Jefferson and Franklin recognized that fact.

People are a reflection of their leaders. Generally speaking, if you have Godless, immoral people in charge of anything, the people will begin to reflect their values.

Ohh, I thought Baldwin was an IF Baptist???

The Vietnam war was an evil war, attempting to support a corrupt catholic dictatorship.

[heartstrings]

I’m talking about un-provoked, illegal, unconstitutional, unbiblical--even secret--wars of aggression. The biggest cheerleaders for the unprovoked, unconstitutional, pre-emptive attack and invasion of Iraq were evangelical Christians.

The dictator of Iraq ordered the invasion of Kuwait and was poised to enter Saudi Arabia. Not only that, but he launched SCUD missiles at the Nation of Israel. He had to be stopped. And another thing, God blesses those who bless Israel. Go ahead and deny that, you have a right to be wrong if you want to. The second invasion of Iraq was because we thought he had WMD's. I personally believe he did. Did a wicked murderer like Saddam Hussein have a change of heart about owning WMD's? Well, unless he got born again, I seriously doubt that. I believe he ditched them. He probably ditched them before the invasion. He probably had ample time to do so, seeing how the UN dilly dallied around before we finally went in .

Most evangelical Christians didn’t even bat an eye when the federal government sent military and police personnel to murder American citizens, including old men, women, and children--Christian old men, women, and children, no less--outside Waco, Texas.

Oh really? I for one am still disgusted about that. What about Ruby Ridge? What about them forcing little Elian Gonzalez' relatives at gunpoint, to hand him over to the Communists? Or how about them allowing that reprobate in Florida to legally starve his invalid wife to death? No, we "bat our eyes" alright, but what can we do? Vote.....and SPEAK OUT while we still are free to do so: that's all we can do. But I'll tell you what I would do if I were a police officer, ordered to violate my fellow citizens...I would refuse, walk away, and turn in my resignation immediately,

[John81]

The dictator of Iraq ordered the invasion of Kuwait and was poised to enter Saudi Arabia. Not only that, but he launched SCUD missiles at the Nation of Israel. He had to be stopped. And another thing, God blesses those who bless Israel. Go ahead and deny that, you have a right to be wrong if you want to. The second invasion of Iraq was because we thought he had WMD's. I personally believe he did. Did a wicked murderer like Saddam Hussein have a change of heart about owning WMD's? Well, unless he got born again, I seriously doubt that. I believe he ditched them. He probably ditched them before the invasion. He probably had ample time to do so, seeing how the UN dilly dallied around before we finally went in .


Oh really? I for one am still disgusted about that. What about Ruby Ridge? What about them forcing little Elian Gonzalez' relatives at gunpoint, to hand him over to the Communists? Or how about them allowing that reprobate in Florida to legally starve his invalid wife to death? No, we "bat our eyes" alright, but what can we do? Vote.....and SPEAK OUT while we still are free to do so: that's all we can do. But I'll tell you what I would do if I were a police officer, ordered to violate my fellow citizens...I would refuse, walk away, and turn in my resignation immediately,

President Bush the First gave Saddam a green light to attack Kuwait, a country created English design, not by the people living in the area or any natural means, and the Bush Administration told Saddam that if Iraq took Kuwait it would be viewed as an internal matter since Iraq had long claimed that the territory of Kuwait belonged to them.

Saddam had no intentions of attacking Saudia Arabia. That is pure propaganda.

As for the Second war in Iraq, members of Bush the Seconds inner circle are on record stating that one of the first things Bush the Second addressed when he first came into office was the need to find a reason and a way to take down Saddam. This was prior to 9-11. Many countries actually do have WMDs but we don't see America invading them. Even if Saddam did have WMDs he had no means of striking America with them. Saddam had a long history of having a much louder bark than bite and given his relations with Iran he had to give the impression he was capable of inflicting massive damage to an invader. Another factor that has come to light is that Saddam, through back channels, was funneling information to the American CIA about terrorists and making other gestures of reconcilliation and peace behind the scenes. The war in Iraq was totally unnecessary.

[Wilchbla]

The Vietnam war was an evil war, attempting to support a corrupt catholic dictatorship.

Have your read Avro Manhattan's book about this subject? Very good read.

[swathdiver]

Even if Saddam did have WMDs he had no means of striking America with them.

Saddam was in cahoots with the various Muhammaden terrorist organizations. Remember that Iraq was a beligerant in the first WTC attack in 1993. Remember that Saddam wrote checks to the families of Muhammaden terrorists who blew themselves up throughout Israel while President Clinton was hosting that pervert Yasser Arafat at the White House.

Saddam had WMD and the ingrediants to make them. Our troops found thousands of tons of the stuff, even got sick when they came upon it unawares. While much more was probably squirreled away into neighboring Syria, our troops were still finding 155mm chemical shells that were produced prior to 1991 as late as 2007.

Saddam had the means to conduct terror attacks through the various terror groups and let's not forget that he bought off half the Godless heathens at the United Nations in an attempt to keep the USA at bay.

The invasion and toppling Saddam was brilliantly executed as far was wars go. Where Bush erred was in allowing lawyers to accompany our troops into battle. Lawyers and leftists who ideologically side with the enemy, who subverted America's efforts to do the right thing. Bush was always reaching across the isle and wanting to be liked, no matter how many times they slapped his hand away and stabbed him in the back he kept at it to my dismay. Unlearned in the Scriptures, he was doomed from the start.

[JerryNumbers]

Agreed. The recent wars have been started without any clear objective & end point. The effective & on-going situation is a Christian versus Muslim war of attrition. Are we safer as nations? What WMDs should we fear? Civil airliners? Buses & underground trains & cars?

What are the weapons on Christian warfare? (Eph. 6)

2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

True, our weapons are not to be those of the flesh, yet for many that is their weapon of choice. Our weapon ought to be the Word.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


And of course our armour should be the Word too.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19 ¶ And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Eph 6:21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
Eph 6:22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.

[John81]

Saddam was in cahoots with the various Muhammaden terrorist organizations. Remember that Iraq was a beligerant in the first WTC attack in 1993. Remember that Saddam wrote checks to the families of Muhammaden terrorists who blew themselves up throughout Israel while President Clinton was hosting that pervert Yasser Arafat at the White House.

Saddam had WMD and the ingrediants to make them. Our troops found thousands of tons of the stuff, even got sick when they came upon it unawares. While much more was probably squirreled away into neighboring Syria, our troops were still finding 155mm chemical shells that were produced prior to 1991 as late as 2007.

Saddam had the means to conduct terror attacks through the various terror groups and let's not forget that he bought off half the Godless heathens at the United Nations in an attempt to keep the USA at bay.

The invasion and toppling Saddam was brilliantly executed as far was wars go. Where Bush erred was in allowing lawyers to accompany our troops into battle. Lawyers and leftists who ideologically side with the enemy, who subverted America's efforts to do the right thing. Bush was always reaching across the isle and wanting to be liked, no matter how many times they slapped his hand away and stabbed him in the back he kept at it to my dismay. Unlearned in the Scriptures, he was doomed from the start.

Saddam had cooperated behind the scenes with the US for years, under both Republican and Democrat presidents. Saddam was no threat to America.

As to sending checks to families and such, yes he did that but that was no threat to America and the actions of so many other countries around the world are of potential danger to America and America doesn't attack them.

Let's not forget that Iraq couldn't do any better than fight a more-or-less stalemate war with Iran and we are to believe Iraq was a threat to America?