Conservatism versus hyper-conservatism?

[Invicta]

So, do you wear a robe, rancher? (I'm just teasing....)

I would not consider myself properly dressed if I went to church in jeans. I would only wear jeans when I am working in the garden. At church I usually wear a suit as do most of our older men, the youngsters mostly dress more casually.

[John81]

Your comment here touched on an issue that I encounter periodically. People will occasionally ask me whether I am Muslim or Mormon or Orthodox Jewish because I wear long skirts, long sleeves, and blouses with necklines above the collarbone. Most recently, I was dining at a restaurant with a small group of ladies from church and we were asked by the waiter whether we were Mormons. When we said no he immediately asked whether we were Orthodox Jews. We replied no again and one of the ladies said we are Christians. He looked genuinely surprised. He actually said, "I wouldn't have guessed that, you are all dressed so modestly and act so quiet and polite." *sigh*

I've been asked similar questions in the office where I work. When I first started working at my current job people asked me whether I was a Mormon, a Muslim or an Orthodox Jew because of my modest dress and my eschewing secular entertainment. The last thing they thought was that I might be a Christian. It genuinely saddens me to think that non-Christian belief systems such as Muslims, Mormons and Jews are easily identifiable by their "set apart" lifestyle and modest dress but as Brother John has pointed out, Christians are not usually identified in this way.

It does seem to me that Christians sometimes try to blend in as much as possible, not to be too different, too set apart. There is a danger in blurring those lines, not just for ourselves but also for those who make judgments on our faith based on their observation of our conduct. I do not think we should be asking how little we can do to follow Christ, but how much.

Some missionaries our church helps support in a Muslim country said one of the ways Muslims look at things is that they are "good people" because they follow basic principles of Islam such as modesty and view the rest of the world as not being good because they don't, including Christians. He and his wife dress modestly and conservatively and when they first encounter people in that country and they see how they are dressed and hear how polite they speak, they automatically assume they must be Muslim because they are "good people". They are shocked when they learn they are Christians because their experience has taught them Christians are immodest and not good people. The fact this missionary couple dresses modestly and conduct themselves in a Christlike manner has, partially through the shock factor, opened some doors for them to share the Gospel.

It's a shame that when most of the world looks to professing Christians for signs of Christlikeness, for signs they actually believe, obey and follow the Bible, they come away believing that Christians are not for real and their religion is weak or fake.

[rancher824]

So, do you wear a robe, rancher? (I'm just teasing....)

I'm afraid most churches (IFB or not) would laugh me right out the door if I did!!! LOL

[farouk]

So does anyone else have any more significant contributions to make, before the thread is closed?

[Salyan]

Why don't you leave the thread open for a while and see what happens? Sometimes threads can get resurrected after laying dormant for years, and they're still interesting.

[farouk]

Why don't you leave the thread open for a while and see what happens? Sometimes threads can get resurrected after laying dormant for years, and they're still interesting.

Well, okay.

[DennisD]

This is exactly my point. How much more would we show our faith in Christ than to strive to put the things the world has adopted away and dress like He dressed? To separate, not only in actions, but dress where that when we walk down the street everyone says "there comes a Christian, no one else dresses like Christ today!!!" Are we not looking for a loop hole by ignoring the fact that all through scripture it is plain the dress from the garden on was a robe or coat. Nowhere is a man seen wearing pants! Should we not get back to the scriptural model of clothing?

Not really, dressing modestly spans different ages/times. Modest during Christs time was the robe and all that, modest in our time is still modest but with different clothing. Modest doesn't mean dress like Christ (in regards to the exact clothes he wore). It's about covering and not showing the flesh in an immodest way.

It seems you always go back to this point about dressing as Christ did but scripture is such a miracle it transcends time like no other book in existence or ever in existence. Modest then is the same as modest now but the clothing is different.

[DennisD]

This is how the ladies can stand apart, but how about us men? We dress like the world. Yes I know we do not go around with our shirts unbuttoned, beer or girly pictures on them or the such, but there are many in the world that go around the same. Our jeans and suits are just like the worlds. When in a business group one does not stand out from the other. We dress just like the men of the world.

There are "good", "moral" people in the world as well that aren't born again.

Is wearing jeans like everyone else or wearing a collared shirt like the everyone else dressing like the world? Or does the world still have some morals where they cover themself up and it's actually of God. If an unsaved person dresses modestly, maybe that shows God and morals of the Bible still reflect in certain parts of society.

This is not dressing like the world, it's when we decide to wear muscle shirts or no shirt at all where we've decided to put the morals of the Bible aside and dress like the world. It's when we decide to get piercings all in our face and/or body, get tattoos, show off old tattoos...that we've decided to be a part of the world.

Hopefully, you'll will understand the difference that I've showed you.

[DennisD]

Well, okay.

Yes, please stop having a "trigger finger" for the close button lol.

[farouk]

There are "good", "moral" people in the world as well that aren't born again.

Is wearing jeans like everyone else or wearing a collared shirt like the everyone else dressing like the world? Or does the world still have some morals where they cover themself up and it's actually of God. If an unsaved person dresses modestly, maybe that shows God and morals of the Bible still reflect in certain parts of society.

This is not dressing like the world, it's when we decide to wear muscle shirts or no shirt at all where we've decided to put the morals of the Bible aside and dress like the world. It's when we decide to get piercings all in our face and/or body, get tattoos, show off old tattoos...that we've decided to be a part of the world.

Hopefully, you'll will understand the difference that I've showed you.

D:

If I mentioned piercing or tattoos, ppl would jump on me, it seems.

Blessings.

[DennisD]

D: If I mentioned piercing or tattoos, ppl would jump on me, it seems. Blessings.

Then why mention it.....?

[farouk]

Then why mention it.....?

D:

Because you did; having previously berated me (in a friendly way) for having mentioned them.

I'm not sure of your overall point, though. Are you suggesting that we have to look different to the point of eccentricity? (I'm not sure if you're saying this, or not.)

[HappyChristian]

It isn't the mention of it, farouk...it's the fact that it seemed like you were obsessed with it for a while... And just so you know - you don't have to close every thread you begin (unless you want to).

I think Dennis hit the nail on the head. The world often dresses in a modest way. Dresses many times are calf length as a matter of style. Men's suits are common wear in many upper echelons of business (hence the term "white collar"). Granted, standards are easing and so some big execs wear slacks and sport shirts/no tie to work, often sporting chin whiskers in the style that, I guess, is supposed to look rugged (but actually, to me, looks dirty...I see pictures of guys like that and I wonder if they smell....

Because the world dresses in a way in which modesty is highlighted is no reason for Christians to use that as an excuse to dress like the world (I absolutely know that you were in no way saying that, rancher!!!)

Sometimes, though, we do look different to the point of eccentricity (in the minds of the world, at any rate - whose mind I couldn't care a fig about!!). For instance, MissLinda dresses eccentrically in comparison to those with whom she works. As do I...several of the ladies at work wear dresses once in a while. Some of those dresses are modest, most are not. One woman wears almost exclusively skirts that are mid-calf. Her tops, however.....I am always in a skirt or dress, and many times at staff meetings get looks... But it really doesn't matter to me.

My hubby wears jeans for work - he has to. But you know what, he looks different from others with whom he works. His hair is short and always combed (not spiked or shaggy). His shirt is always tucked in (no, I'm not saying men who don't tuck in their shirts are sinners, so don't go there) and his shoes are always tied. Yes, there are folks who dress in a similar manner, but that is becoming less and less. He wears a suit and tie for church (or sports jacket and slacks), and a white shirt (he doesn't like colored shirts for church, for himself). He always looks like he just stepped out of the shower. Clean and neat, whether he's working or at church. If the world does that, is he copying them? No. Does he always look different? Well, nowadays he usually does. But not always...until he opens his mouth. Then everyone knows Whom he serves!

[DennisD]

D: Because you did; having previously berated me (in a friendly way) for having mentioned them. I'm not sure of your overall point, though. Are you suggesting that we have to look different to the point of eccentricity? (I'm not sure if you're saying this, or not.)

There are a couple differences. First, when I wrote the above about piercings and tattoos...it wasn't directed toward you or anyone in particular. Second, I don't constantly talk about piercings and/or tattoos so if I bring them up it's once in awhile...unlike others

I have a hard time believing you read my post as I agreed we wear things just like others in the world (jeans, collared shirt, etc). Please re-read what I said if you missed that part.

What would the point of eccentricity even be? I think wearing robes as those did during the time of Jesus would be eccentric. But, wearing modest clothing (as many unsaved do as well) is not eccentric.

My entire point was to show rancher that I believe his thinking/perspective on this is a little out of whack. Modest in 30 A.D. was robes. Modest today could be a suit, maybe loose fitting jeans with a collared shirt or loose fitting T-Shirt or long shirt or many other things I wouldn't be able to list all of them.

Is a man wearing daisy dukes modest? No.
Is a man running down the public street with his shirt off modest? No.
Is a man with shorts on that go passed the knee modest? Probably debatable, I've heard yes and no to both.

But, I think the things that are debatable are very few and far between (some of you will probably disagree). I think scripture is fairly clear on the issue of being modest. And with the Holy Spirit convicting us, I believe we can know quite clearly what is modest and what isn't.

Others take it to an extreme (usually being sarcastic which isn't very godly) and say "Well, if you are telling me I can't be of the world then how can I own a house, how can I work, how can I eat food?". This is a ridiculous argument and just shows how sarcasm can be very dangerous.

The principles are there in the Bible to follow, scripture transcends time as I said earlier.

You can be a part of the world without being of the world. There is a difference. We are a part of the world, we should be the salt.

This post wasn't really for you farouk, for general audience. Edited August 11, 2011 by DennisD

[farouk]

Happy Christian:

I certainly take the point about being a good testimony and not letting carelessness about our appearance detract from that testimony. On the eccentricity aspect, I guess it's all rather subjective, but it seems that some people are at pains not to be careless about their appearance for the sake of testimony, and yet 'don't care' if they seem very eccentric. Is this just a matter of words, or is there a slight point here? (I'm not referring to anyone in particular.)

Edited August 11, 2011 by farouk