The Talents

[John81]

I reject the view rick presents here as error. Nobody, at any time, in any dispensation, ever "lost" salvation. Nor will they. Salvation isn't ours to "lose". If salvation could ever be lost in any dispensation it is based on works and not on grace through faith. It is written: "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

:amen:

[Guest]

What is your view on these verses? (especially verse 30)

Great question! Wrong chapter (should be 25) but great question?

Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives, he has just been to the temple, told the disciples about his second coming, and he has used several examples and parables to teach about his expectation for them/us before he returns:

“parable of the fig tree” – Matthew 24:32
“goodman of the house” – Matthew 24:43
“faithful and wise servant” – Matthew 24:45
“ten virgins” – Matthew 25:1

Then this example, “a man travelling into a far country” – Matthew 25:14

What is obvious about this teaching example?

Jesus is speaking to his disciples from the Mount of Olives. – Mt. 24:3
It does not say the twelve disciples but, I’ve always assumed it. – Mt. 24:3&24
In this example the reference is “his own servants.” – Mt. 25:14
This “man” delivered to the servants “his goods” (talents). – Mt. 25:14&15
The talents were given to servants per “his several ability. – Mt. 25:15
The “man”returned. – Mt. 25:19
Those servants who multiplied the goods received reward – Mt. 25:16-23
The servant who hid his talent and brought no increase was punished – Mt. 25:18,24-30

What is not so obvious, maybe?

The “man” departed for his journey but, returned as “lord.” – Mt. 25:19

Christ is soon to return to heaven and he will leave the church behind. However, Christ is coming again to take the redeemed with him. He is leaving the growth and well-being of the church to his disciples. How will Christ reveal the spirit and truth faithful verses the pretenders? Christ already knows who the faithful are so it wouldn’t be for his benefit. Do you think a just God would show the evidence for or against us before handing out reward or punishment?

I would wonder if the “wicked and slothful servant” of verse 26 is a pretender?

Jesus Christ has delivered the way of salvation to us. What are we doing with it? Are we multiplying the “talents” and caring for his “goods?”

My granddaughter asked me the other day what “gnashing of teeth” meant.

[Covenanter]

It's good to be in agreement with the disps on this topic, (except the self confessed "heretic, hyper-dispensationalist.")

I find the idea extraordinary that some folk are saying that Jesus' teaching was specifically for folk who would supposedly be living in the far distant future.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Covenanter

[Wilchbla]

I posted without seeing the other replies. I agree with KOB & totally reject Rick's post. We need to keep the Scripture relevant to our present generation. Slotting prophecy into future dispensations is not helpful to us - he's saying "this Scripture is nothing to do with living, serving Christians in the present Gospel age."





Maybe you should reread what Rick posted. He never said that the passage couldn't be applied to us now. In fact he said it could be. But none of you people, except Rick, will address the fact that the servent ends in hell.

[John81]

Actually, it's been pointed out those who go to hell were false Christians.

[HappyChristian]

Very good thoughts here - thank so much for the discussion.

These passages (and you're right, Dave...I typed 28 instead of 25!) really do pack a punch, don't they?

In light of the fact that Jesus Himself had a pretender in His group of disciples, I believe that would be a good application of verse 30. I would totally agree with Seth that no-one can lose their salvation, else it isn't truly salvation. The Tribulation period is a completely different discussion, so I'll not get into that here...

There's a lot to chew on in this story - for presenting examining of oneself for true salvation, and for serving the Lord with all our being til He comes. Thanks for your input. I'll keep reading with interest...

[Brother Rick]

It's good to be in agreement with the disps on this topic, (except the self confessed "heretic, hyper-dispensationalist.")

I find the idea extraordinary that some folk are saying that Jesus' teaching was specifically for folk who would supposedly be living in the far distant future.

You also find it extraordinary that God would keep his promises, so that's nothing new. You think people don't have a choice in salvation, that there is no Millennium or Tribulation, and that we're supposed to sprinkling each other.

Please don't talk about ME being a heretic.

A born again believer is sealed by the Holy Ghost and would be unable to take the mark.

People that are sealed by the Holy Spirit are in the body of Christ. The body of Christ is gone during the Tribulation.

You said Christians are "unable" to receive the mark during the Tribulation. Do you have anything at all to back this up? Christians have denied Christ all throughout history; you think they won't during the Tribulation?

Actually, it's been pointed out those who go to hell were false Christians.

No, it’s been assumed that – but not proven. You’re basing what you believe on predisposed belief systems and not on the Bible.

When we get in these sort of conversations I feel like I'm the only one who's willing to look at the Scriptures and adjust what he believes accordingly. The passage clearly shows that both servants are servants of the Lord and (same thing in Matthew 24) then one winds up in Hell. To say one is a "professor" and not a "possessor" is to blatantly read something into the passage that's not there.

The original post asked SPECIFICALLY about verse 30 – the verse in which the servant goes to Hell. I’m the only here who’s bothered to answer that.

[HappyChristian]

The original post asked SPECIFICALLY about verse 30 – the verse in which the servant goes to Hell. I’m the only here who’s bothered to answer that.

You did answer that, Rick, and I thank you. But actually, so did Dave (1 Tim115) and Covenanter.

I think the idea of a pretender will catch the kids' attention. We discussed Judas as a phony and so the kids know that there is a possibility of one "serving" the Lord who is not actually saved.

Verse 27 in the Luke passage is interesting: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." What would you say this is referencing? Hell again?

[heartstrings]

Here is one interpretation....
First of all, the "talents" did not belong to any of the servants and only two of the servants actually 'served'.
The third servant did not trust the master, and had ill feelings toward him. But the first two servants actually "had" something and that something was faith. And because they first hade faith, they exercised it. Other applications can be made but I believe the "talents" here may represent the Word of God. Or they could also include the blessings of God. The profitable servants exercised their faith and did something with the "talents".Anyone can be given the Word, by the Master, but they must first trust the Master or the Word can never do them any good, If they refuse to trust Him, they really hate Him and His Word.

[HappyChristian]

Here is one interpretation....
First of all, the "talents" did not belong to any of the servants and only two of the servants actually 'served'.
The third servant did not trust the master, and had ill feelings toward him. But the first two servants actually "had" something and that something was faith. And because they first hade faith, they exercised it. Other applications can be made but I believe the "talents" here may represent the Word of God. Or they could also include the blessings of God. The profitable servants exercised their faith and did something with the "talents".Anyone can be given the Word, by the Master, but they must first trust the Master or the Word can never do them any good, If they refuse to trust Him, they really hate Him and His Word.

Thanks, heart.

[John81]

You also find it extraordinary that God would keep his promises, so that's nothing new. You think people don't have a choice in salvation, that there is no Millennium or Tribulation, and that we're supposed to sprinkling each other.

Please don't talk about ME being a heretic.



People that are sealed by the Holy Spirit are in the body of Christ. The body of Christ is gone during the Tribulation.

You said Christians are "unable" to receive the mark during the Tribulation. Do you have anything at all to back this up? Christians have denied Christ all throughout history; you think they won't during the Tribulation?



No, it’s been assumed that – but not proven. You’re basing what you believe on predisposed belief systems and not on the Bible.

When we get in these sort of conversations I feel like I'm the only one who's willing to look at the Scriptures and adjust what he believes accordingly. The passage clearly shows that both servants are servants of the Lord and (same thing in Matthew 24) then one winds up in Hell. To say one is a "professor" and not a "possessor" is to blatantly read something into the passage that's not there.

The original post asked SPECIFICALLY about verse 30 – the verse in which the servant goes to Hell. I’m the only here who’s bothered to answer that.

Actually, I never said anything was "proven", on that it had been pointed out. Nevertheless, Scripture is clear that "once saved, always saved" has always and will always apply. We've been across that ground many times here on OB. Once born again in Christ, forever in Christ.

When I studied the issue of salvation I came with no predisposed beliefs at all. I had never heard enough on the topic to form a belief. After studying the topic I then came to the belief that regardless of the time period, all are saved by grace through faith and that once saved, and therefore a member of the family of God, one is forever saved and forever a member of the family of God.

Scripture nowhere suggests there is more than one way to salvation and Jesus is clear that those who do come to Him (with no time stipulations) are His forever.

Scripture also clearly tells us that in the end there will be many who stand before Christ proclaiming they were His and they did this, that and the other for Him, but Christ will inform them He never knew them (because they were never saved) and they will be cast into hell.

Most, if not all, of us today can look around either in our own church or other churches and see those who profess to be Christians, are busy doing "Christian" things, but they may very well be lost.

[Covenanter]

Maybe you should reread what Rick posted. He never said that the passage couldn't be applied to us now. In fact he said it could be. But none of you people, except Rick, will address the fact that the servent ends in hell.

The original post asked SPECIFICALLY about verse 30 – the verse in which the servant goes to Hell. I’m the only here who’s bothered to answer that.

You folk don't read my posts.

I wrote:
"Mat. 25 gives typical situations where his followers & pretended followers serve - keep our lights burning, use our talents faithfully, support needy believers for in so doing we serve their & our brother - Jesus himself.

Those who "sleep", those who waste their talents & reject the Lord's command, & those who despise needy believers show they are not true believers, not faithful Christians serving their Lord. They suffer the judgment of hell. "

[Brother Rick]

You did answer that, Rick, and I thank you. But actually, so did Dave (1 Tim115).

I think the idea of a pretender will catch the kids' attention. We discussed Judas as a phony and so the kids know that there is a possibility of one "serving" the Lord who is not actually saved.

Verse 27 in the Luke passage is interesting: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." What would you say this is referencing? Hell again?

Well, the context is the Second Coming:

Luke 19:12-13, "He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13) And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come."

The enemies are those at the Second Coming who have not recieved Christ.

This passage applies to Church Age saints, as you see none of the servants going to Hell, just losing rewards.

II Jn 1:8, "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward."

(see also I Cor. 3, Rev. 3:11)

[Brother Rick]

I wrote:
"Mat. 25 gives typical situations where his followers & pretended followers serve - keep our lights burning, use our talents faithfully, support needy believers for in so doing we serve their & our brother - Jesus himself.

Those who "sleep", those who waste their talents & reject the Lord's command, & those who despise needy believers show they are not true believers, not faithful Christians serving their Lord. They suffer the judgment of hell. "

What command is that?

[JerryNumbers]

I think its about the talents, gifts, God has given a person, using these talents as opportunities comes your way, remember. some Christians do have more opportunities than others. It has nothing whatsoever to do with losing ones salvation.

Some seem to think its about money, hording money, that is, having a bank full of money.