Repeating a prayer

[Madeline]

Jerry, to "call on the name of the Lord," is the equivalent of placing one's faith in Him. It does not mean to pray to Him. Prayer is a "work," we are not saved by works...we are saved by faith alone.

[Jerry]

Please explain Romans 10:9-10. Whatever your explanation, it has to deal with what the verses state: which is that salvation involves CONFESSING to God - that is prayer. There is no other explanation - that verses pretty clearly states that this confession is what saves (obviously with the corresponding belief in the heart).

[Jerry]

Let's see if I can rephrase it another way:

How can you receive the Saviour, receive His gift of salvation, without talking (ie. praying with Him)? How can you receive His forgiveness without first speaking to Him about it (ie. asking Him to forgive you - in whatever manner is appropriate)?

Salvation isn't thinking, Oh, I'm already saved - it is turning to Him and receiving Him to be saved - that involves prayer (ie. talking to God).

[JJJ4given]

Well, I will say this. The publican's prayer worked for one man and that was the publican. I don't see anyone else using that prayer in the Bible.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Let's bring this back into context, what were they to confess? The word of faith! Not the "words" of faith. It wasn't in a set of words but in acknowledging the truth of the message. Also, take very close note that this person is under conviction("the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth). Telling someone to repeat a prayer isn't the same word or words that are on the tip of their tongue. Let them come up with the words, because the prayer that is supposed to be from them, from their heart, is what is needed. Not some prayer you manufactured for them to repeat that will only confuse them.

Context is very important.

God bless!

[ltl]

Let's see if I can rephrase it another way:

How can you receive the Saviour, receive His gift of salvation, without talking (ie. praying with Him)? How can you receive His forgiveness without first speaking to Him about it (ie. asking Him to forgive you - in whatever manner is appropriate)?

Salvation isn't thinking, Oh, I'm already saved - it is turning to Him and receiving Him to be saved - that involves prayer (ie. talking to God).

Pardon me Jerry, but I must mention this: I agree or disagree with you - depending on how you define "prayer" (talking of God) - is it verbally or silent prayer? Don't forget that the mute and deaf cannot talk!

[JerryNumbers]

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 10:32-33 (KJV)

8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Luke 12:8 (KJV)

42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

John 12:42-43 (KJV)

When I read John 12:42-43, I can't help but think of Romans 10:11.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:11 (KJV)

The Bible is right clear, whosoever really believes on Jesus will not be ashamed, that is they will not be quite about Jesus having saved their soul from hell. If a person can't hear nor talk has nothing to do with it, that is a smoke screen that always comes up it seems. Surely we all know that God takes care of such things, lets put our trust in Him on such matters and not go off changing what god teaches up thru the Bible.

The young woman, her beloved has just asked her to marry him and she accepts it, happy is she. After they part company what does this young woman do. She has to go to her mother, her sister, her best friend, or someone to tell that her beloved has proposed marriage to her.

If a person has been truly saved, if there is someone they can seek out and tell this to, they will.

Yes I know, if they happened to be somewhere and they could not get to no one before they died, God would take care of that, but that has nothing to do with what God's instruction says, don't change doctrine.

I also remember when I was saved, I could not wait to tell someone, how did I tell them, of course with my mouth, that is I was not ashamed to confess Jesus as my Savior, neither was I ashamed to speak of Him when I went forward to my pastor.

I'm not going to argue about the confessing with the mouth, its there in the Holy Scripture for everyone, if you want to explain it away go ahead, but that is all your doing, explaining away God's Word.

[JJJ4given]

I thought of a poem:

A great war once waged on a battlefield,
The word of God a preacher did wield,
Against a great many lost sinners across the field,
The Holy Ghost's conviction abounded that day.

There were so many others who had taken flight,
Their fleeing was due to the Lord's revealing light,
But I decided to give up this ongoing fight,
And lay down my weapons of war.

I laid down my arms, on my knees I fell,
I would no longer serve sin, Satan, or hell,
I gave up my rights, my freedom and will,
I surrendered to him on that day.

I became a prisoner of war on that day,
A servant to my Lord I now follow his way,
Far beyond expectation, his mercy more than I can say,
Thankful I am that he took even me.

A large amount I owed of sin, I regret,
But he said, "Don't worry, I already paid all the debt,
At Calvary I paid it all, so there's nothing to fret,
God laid all your sins upon me."

He now set me up to spread his great news,
I gratefully serve, to him all my dues,
I fight on a side which cannot lose,
Oh sinner repent and believe.



The thing I think the calvinist misses is that God entices everyone. However, he has given us the choice to lay down our defenses and give in, or to flee.

God bless!

[heartstrings]

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 10:32-33 (KJV)

8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Luke 12:8 (KJV)

42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

John 12:42-43 (KJV)

When I read John 12:42-43, I can't help but think of Romans 10:11.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:11 (KJV)

The Bible is right clear, whosoever really believes on Jesus will not be ashamed, that is they will not be quite about Jesus having saved their soul from hell. If a person can't hear nor talk has nothing to do with it, that is a smoke screen that always comes up it seems. Surely we all know that God takes care of such things, lets put our trust in Him on such matters and not go off changing what god teaches up thru the Bible.

The young woman, her beloved has just asked her to marry him and she accepts it, happy is she. After they part company what does this young woman do. She has to go to her mother, her sister, her best friend, or someone to tell that her beloved has proposed marriage to her.

If a person has been truly saved, if there is someone they can seek out and tell this to, they will.

Yes I know, if they happened to be somewhere and they could not get to no one before they died, God would take care of that, but that has nothing to do with what God's instruction says, don't change doctrine.

I also remember when I was saved, I could not wait to tell someone, how did I tell them, of course with my mouth, that is I was not ashamed to confess Jesus as my Savior, neither was I ashamed to speak of Him when I went forward to my pastor.

I'm not going to argue about the confessing with the mouth, its there in the Holy Scripture for everyone, if you want to explain it away go ahead, but that is all your doing, explaining away God's Word.

Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.


This is what will happen after you truly believe.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

When the living water springs up in your soul, it is because you have passed form death unto life. It's the livign water that makes you want to confess before men.


"Confessing before men" is NOT what saved you.
Confessing with the mouth is a result of truly believing.But "confessing before men" is something you do....and that is a work.
You confess before men because of what God already did in your heart.

Before someone takes me wrong again....
When the preacher preached from the 23rd psalm on Mother's Day 1985, I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and I screamed out His name even before I could get out of the pew.
I was NOT ashamed, I didn't care who heard it. I was talking to Jesus.
Now, if nobody had been around,and I had been alone, I STILL was saved the split second before I called on God. Had I been a deaf mute...I still would have been saved.

When God really comes into your heart....that living water springs up in there....something is going to spill out. John 5:24, John 3:16

[JerryNumbers]

I'm not going to argue about this, but I did not say confession before men will saved a person so please don't put words in my mouth.

But if the person is truly saved, he or she will confess before men just as the Holy Scripture tells them to.

If he or she will not, them there is a problem.

[JJJ4given]

If I understand this right, Jerry80871852 has been saying that someone will confess to others what Jesus did after they got saved. That this will be a clear evidence of what took place.

Jerry80871852,

There were some who seemed to be implying that confessing meant saying a certain set of words at the point of salvation, whereby to gain salvation. I think that is where the confusion is coming in.

God bless!

[Jerry]

In Romans 10:9-10, I believe that the confession is in the same sense as that used in 1 John 1:9 - ie. confession to God.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Pardon me Jerry, but I must mention this: I agree or disagree with you - depending on how you define "prayer" (talking of God) - is it verbally or silent prayer? Don't forget that the mute and deaf cannot talk!

Prayer is talking to God - whether audibly or silently.

It wasn't in a set of words but in acknowledging the truth of the message. Also, take very close note that this person is under conviction("the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth). Telling someone to repeat a prayer isn't the same word or words that are on the tip of their tongue. Let them come up with the words, because the prayer that is supposed to be from them, from their heart, is what is needed.

I agree with you here - it is not some rote prayer - but salvation does involve seeking the Lord in prayer.

There were some who seemed to be implying that confessing meant saying a certain set of words at the point of salvation, whereby to gain salvation. I think that is where the confusion is coming in.

Not a set of words - but confessing to the Lord by prayer is what Romans 10:9-10 is referring to - in the context of stating it is part of what is necessary for being saved: ie. believing in the heart and confessing our sin, etc. to God.

[Madeline]

Madeline, opinions are worthless - why not deal with and explain Romans 10:9-10 and 13. Those verses are pretty clear that salvation comes when confession (ie. agreement of their sinful condition and their need for a Saviour) is made to God and by calling upon the name of the Lord.

Hmmm....to assume that confess with our mouth implies prayer is an opinion don't youthink? The word confess (homologeo) essentially means agreement or assent. And as I stated before I don't think that "call upon" means a prayer. I think it is idiomatic for trust. Of course, we must believe in the One upon whom we trust. Prayer is a work and we are not saved by our works. There are no instances in the bible where salvation was the result of prayer. We are told to confess with our mouth. However one can believe in his heart without saying a prayer and can be saved.

Love,
Madeline

[JJJ4given]

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

[Madeline]

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

What are you trying to say here? What does this have to do with the topic?

[kevinmiller]

It's scary when Baptists are debating about the proper way for a person to get saved. hehe :peek: