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Repeating a prayer


JJJ4given

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Prayer: "O God, I cannot understand the mystery of it all. I cannot understand why Thou care enough for me to send Jesus Christ to bear the penalty of my sins. But with all my lack of understanding, I am willing and I do yield to Thee, absolutely. I trust in the fact of His death for me and the promise Thou have made in John 3:16 that 'whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life'. "
Just as you leave the mystery of the electric current with the engineer and take the benefits of the light for yourself, so leave the mystery of salvation with God and take the infinite benefits of a personal Saviour to yourself. Yield to Him now
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I do not believe it is wrong to lead someone in prayer - after you have thoroughly, clearly explained the Gospel to them and they have accepted it and indicated they now want to call on the Lord to save them. But we need to emphasize it is believing in our hearts that saves us, not in saying some prayer or quoting the "right words."

That is one of the biggest problems I have with the Left Behind series - overall, it may be okay (as far as covering the series of events during the Tribulation period), but it so much emphasizes that people need to say "the prayer", and the characters are always talking about how many or who they led to say the prayer. (This is seen a lot in the teen's version of this series, which I am reading for research purposes.)


Before God, who knows the innermost secrets of my heart, I accept Jesus Christ into my life as my Saviour and Lord. I yield absolutely to Him, and Him alone. I know, on the authority of His own written Word in John 5:24, that I have everlasting life, for there He says, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life'. In coming into God's family, I shall endeavour my utmost, as a filial child, to read and meditate on God's Word daily, and to speak to my Heavenly Father in daily communion. This is my sincere desire, so help me God".


This part isn't even prayer - it is not directed to God. Weird.
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The prayer is pretty words, flattery for sure, but is it said in the name of Jesus Christ?

Seems to me its a prayer made up by a man with his hopes of those saying it would be saved.

But I think their needs to be understanding in a persons heart that they are lost, they can't save their self, there is a penalty for their sin, Christ paid that penalty on the cross, if they will repent and accept Jesus as Savior they can be saved.

Hope I phrased that right.

I read the 1st 3 to 4 books of Left Behind. I enjoyed reading them, but for a lost person to read them they just might believe in easy believeism and rightly not understand the proper way to be saved.

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I find it hilarious that this is written in Elizabethan English. I guess God doesn't understand modern English.

I have a friend that does this. He is a very good guy, loves the Lord, down to earth, will have a regular conversation, but as soon as he starts praying, he goes into Elizabethan English. It catches me off guard every time.

:lol:
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I was a victim of the repeat-after-me prayer when I was about 10 years old. Jesus was in my head but not in my heart. I put no stock in it at all.

When you truly come under conviction of the Holy Ghost and call on Jesus, your prayer comes from the heart.

Do you find where Jesus, Paul, or any of the apostles led in a prayer?

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That prayers there are a big joke. No talk of asking for forgiveness for sins and mercy and such...

It doesn't make any sense to lead someone into a prayer. In fact it seems to be done because people dont believe God's Word when it says that it is the power of God unto salvation.

If a man committed adultery on his wife and he was genuinely sorry, would he need someone else to write him up an apology. Would he need to read it off a piece of paper and repeat it? Or would he be able to say it in many tears, asking for forgiveness?

Just as if someone is genuinely convicted of their sins; they see themselves as a hell deserving sinner. They do not need to repeat some prayer, they can say their own words, otherwise I would GREATLY doubt they are genuine. If they are genuine they would cry out to the Lord for mercy with an attitude that clings to the salvation brought through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not only that, but is this repeat after me prayer found anywhere in the Scriptures? I think not. I would like to see the history of this repeat after me prayer, where it originated and such, I have a strange feeling it originated with some heretics.

Id rather trust the Lord at His Word and believe that He has the power to save, to bring a conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement.

I'll just do my job and be a preacher of righteousness, who exalts the holiness of God, the law of God, the justice of God, the righteousness of God and the wisdom of His requirements and His wrath and anger. I'll tell the sinner of the enomority of their crimes and their open rebellion and their treason and anarchy. If their hard heart is broken after that then I will preach the Gospel to them and leave the rest up to God.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

John 16:7,8
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

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I do not believe it is wrong to lead someone in prayer - after you have thoroughly, clearly explained the Gospel to them and they have accepted it and indicated they now want to call on the Lord to save them. But we need to emphasize it is believing in our hearts that saves us, not in saying some prayer or quoting the "right words."

That is one of the biggest problems I have with the Left Behind series - overall, it may be okay (as far as covering the series of events during the Tribulation period), but it so much emphasizes that people need to say "the prayer", and the characters are always talking about how many or who they led to say the prayer. (This is seen a lot in the teen's version of this series, which I am reading for research purposes.)



This part isn't even prayer - it is not directed to God. Weird.


:thumb
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Nobody in the Bible was ever led in a sinner's prayer, and many of them have other stuff not in the Bible, like "asking Jesus into the heart." Psalm 51 is a good example of how sinners should come before God, but God looks upon the heart, not any special words. Would you lead a husband caught in adultery to come before his wife, repeating after you, "Dear wife (dear wife), I am so sorry (I am so sorry) for cheating on you (for cheating on you)"?

In addition, God does not always hear these sorts of prayers. See Jeremiah 14-15 for one example:

Jeremiah 14:20-22
(20) We acknowledge, O LORD, our wickedness, and the iniquity of our fathers: for we have sinned against thee.
(21) Do not abhor us, for thy name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of thy glory: remember, break not thy covenant with us.
(22) Are there any among the vanities of the Gentiles that can cause rain? or can the heavens give showers? art not thou he, O LORD our God? therefore we will wait upon thee: for thou hast made all these things.

So far, this sounds like a model sinner's prayer. Let's see the next verse.

Jeremiah 15:1
Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth.

Jeremiah 15:7
And I will fan them with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways.

Hmm...Repentance is more than mere words.

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Matt. 6

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 ¶ After this manner therefore pray ye:

Very good points you brought up heartstrings.

Acts 16:29-34
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

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Also what I find interesting is that nowhere in the bible has anyone every prayed for their initial salvation. This is one of the reasons as to why I dislike Billy Grahams method of preaching, he uses the sinners prayer. There's going to be a whoooooole lot of false converts who are going to stand before the Great White Throne.

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Also what I find interesting is that nowhere in the bible has anyone every prayed for their initial salvation.


Then what are they doing in this verse?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling upon the Lord certainly involves praying to Him.
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I have a friend that does this. He is a very good guy, loves the Lord, down to earth, will have a regular conversation, but as soon as he starts praying, he goes into Elizabethan English. It catches me off guard every time.

:lol:



I must confess I use Thee, Thou, Thine, a lot when I pray. I guess I just think that the Lord is due that respect which the KJB gives Him.

I know, I know, it doesn't make my prayer any more spiritual, but I still do it. :lol:



I do not believe it is wrong to lead someone in prayer - after you have thoroughly, clearly explained the Gospel to them and they have accepted it and indicated they now want to call on the Lord to save them. But we need to emphasize it is believing in our hearts that saves us, not in saying some prayer or quoting the "right words."


Well said Jerry. I try to always end my gospel presentation with leading the person in a prayer, be it a "sinner's prayer" or if they decided to wait or don't feel like it, I will still ask if I pray with them and pray aloud that my desire is for the Holy Spirit to open their hearts, their eyes to the truths that we talked about and that may "Señor Smith" find the mercy of God by accepting the work of Christ on his behalf unto salvation.

Or something along those lines.

God bless,

Calvary
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Then what are they doing in this verse?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling upon the Lord certainly involves praying to Him.


That's how it happened with me!

I hollered out his name right there in the church house...
I was talking directly to Him and didn't care who heard it.
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Then what are they doing in this verse?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Calling upon the Lord certainly involves praying to Him.


In Romans 10:13 Paul quotes Joel 2:32, another which centers on the expression (decision) of faith as being the sole means man has effective access to God. To "call on the name of the Lord," is the equivalent of placing one's faith in Him. Men first started "calling upon the name of the Lord" early in the history of mankind, as is recorded in Genesis 4:26, the means whereby a person receives eternal life. There is an algebraic formula that states that if x = y and z = y then x = z. In this passage it is clearly stated that "calling upon the name of the Lord" equals salvation, which is exactly what faith in Christ does as expressed in Romans 10:10. It has nothing do do with a sinners prayer.

Love,
Madeline
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Well said Jerry. I try to always end my gospel presentation with leading the person in a prayer, be it a "sinner's prayer" or if they decided to wait or don't feel like it, I will still ask if I pray with them and pray aloud that my desire is for the Holy Spirit to open their hearts, their eyes to the truths that we talked about and that may "Señor Smith" find the mercy of God by accepting the work of Christ on his behalf unto salvation.


A person has to want to be saved in order to become saved. The prayer has no saving merit. People will ask how to be saved when they are under conviction and are truly willing to repent. Leading someone in prayer, especially when they are not sure that they want to, results in a LOT of false converts.

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
(Acts 16:30)
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I must confess I use Thee, Thou, Thine, a lot when I pray. I guess I just think that the Lord is due that respect which the KJB gives Him.


You may personally use these pronouns out of respect for the Lord - the KJV translators did not. Thee, thou, thine, etc. is singular - so of course the KJV ALWAYS used it in reference to God. And they used it in regards to every other person who was addressed singularly in Scripture too. (Not trying to be argumentative - but attempting to clarify the usages of pronouns, which is very important for understanding the Bible.)
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I certainly do not believe in any kind of rote prayer for salvation - however, I truly do believe someone is not saved unless they do seek the Lord (which involves prayer). How can you receive Him for salvation and the forgiveness of sins without acknowledging in prayer you are a sinner and asking Jesus Christ to save you?

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Yes, calling upon the Lord in prayer is acting on the belief that the Lord is willing and able to save you.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This certainly indicates we need to pray to God in order to be saved - ie. confession is agreeing with God about what He said - it isn't just thinking, "Oh, I am a sinner and I need a Saviour," but turning to Him and acknowledging that need in prayer: eg. "Lord, I realize I am a sinner and I need you to save me. I know you are the only way of salvation. Please forgive my sins and make me your child."

Truly, has someone ever been saved without talking to the Lord (ie. praying) about salvation? "Hm, He's the Saviour. I must be saved now..." doesn't seem to fit.

The Bible talks about receiving the Saviour, receiving the Gospel, opening the door and letting the Saviour in - that certainly implies addressing Him in some way - which would be prayer.

Lest I be misunderstood: I am not advocating a specific prayer or kind of prayer - but I do not see how someone can be saved apart from any prayer to the Lord at all.

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I guess the question is, is someone who believes saved before or after he prays?

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...

I'm also reminded of the Ethiopian eunuch:

Acts 8:36-38 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (37) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Does salvation come from the heart or from the mouth?

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Does salvation come from the heart or from the mouth?


Romans 10:9-10 says both. For clarification, the context dictates that it is confessing to God Himself, not to man. True faith would move us to pray to the Lord to forgive us of our sins (and/or whatever else they feel the need to address when turning to the Lord).
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Being a Civil War Re-enactor and Living Historian, I prefer this tract, also from said website:

www.biblebelievers.com/come_to_jesus.html

I would like to see this reprinted in pamphlet form on high quality parchment paper to distribute at Civil War events. It is as valulable today to modern society as it was back then on the bloody battlefields of yore. I wonder where I can find some old-fashioned 1860 fonts?

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The greatest sinners prayer.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:13 (KJV)

And it seems it came straight from the heart.

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Yeah Jerry, my church let everybody submit up to three tracts for consideration the past few weeks, but they required each tract had a sinner's prayer. I just used the example of "God be merciful to me a sinner" as how sinners ought to approach God, so that worked out, since I didn't want to have a prayer to repeat like most tracts do. :lol:

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Confessing to God - I do not believe it is limited to our speach, though that is the specific application in that passage. Obviously, whether we speak words audibly or silently, God knows what we are saying to Him.

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Confessing to God - I do not believe it is limited to our speach, though that is the specific application in that passage. Obviously, whether we speak words audibly or silently, God knows what we are saying to Him.


Faith is simply not a prayer (which in itself is a "work," i.e., something a person must perform [Ephesians 2:8, 9]). In truth, faith is "placing one's total confidence or trust" in something. In the matter of eternal (spirit) salvation it is placed in a Person, Jesus Christ (who did the "work" in your place whilst on the cross). In reality, the placement of faith is a decision that the person makes within and by his will. For those who believe they were saved by their "prayer" (of faith), you might ask them when was the "instant" that they were saved (for the apprehension of it is in an instant; it is never a process of any length), e.g., "Did their salvation take place before, during, or at the end of their prayer? You'll find that a reasonable person will have to admit that it was the instant they decided to pray (which was their "decision" to trust in Christ), if in fact prayer has "anything" to do with it (which it does not!). Just go back through the Bible and you'll find hundreds of time that salvation is linked only through "faith." There is never a mention of prayer. You'll NEVER find an invitation to pray for salvation, as is so prevalent in churches today. The ONLY time a direct (and complete) answer was given to the question on how must one be saved in the New Testament is in Acts 16:30, 31. Read it, and you will have the answer, given by the apostle Paul. Yet, so many today who have twisted spirit salvation (which Christ predicted would happen as this dispensation continued to its end, to end at the Rapture) run to Romans chapter 10 to try to prove their point. They take the passage completely out of context, which was an appeal by Paul to his Jewish brethren; not to the Gentiles.

Love,
Madeline
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Madeline, opinions are worthless - why not deal with and explain Romans 10:9-10 and 13. Those verses are pretty clear that salvation comes when confession (ie. agreement of their sinful condition and their need for a Saviour) is made to God and by calling upon the name of the Lord.

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Please explain Romans 10:9-10. Whatever your explanation, it has to deal with what the verses state: which is that salvation involves CONFESSING to God - that is prayer. There is no other explanation - that verses pretty clearly states that this confession is what saves (obviously with the corresponding belief in the heart).

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Let's see if I can rephrase it another way:

How can you receive the Saviour, receive His gift of salvation, without talking (ie. praying with Him)? How can you receive His forgiveness without first speaking to Him about it (ie. asking Him to forgive you - in whatever manner is appropriate)?

Salvation isn't thinking, Oh, I'm already saved - it is turning to Him and receiving Him to be saved - that involves prayer (ie. talking to God).

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Well, I will say this. The publican's prayer worked for one man and that was the publican. I don't see anyone else using that prayer in the Bible.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Let's bring this back into context, what were they to confess? The word of faith! Not the "words" of faith. It wasn't in a set of words but in acknowledging the truth of the message. Also, take very close note that this person is under conviction("the word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth). Telling someone to repeat a prayer isn't the same word or words that are on the tip of their tongue. Let them come up with the words, because the prayer that is supposed to be from them, from their heart, is what is needed. Not some prayer you manufactured for them to repeat that will only confuse them.

Context is very important.

God bless!

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Let's see if I can rephrase it another way:

How can you receive the Saviour, receive His gift of salvation, without talking (ie. praying with Him)? How can you receive His forgiveness without first speaking to Him about it (ie. asking Him to forgive you - in whatever manner is appropriate)?

Salvation isn't thinking, Oh, I'm already saved - it is turning to Him and receiving Him to be saved - that involves prayer (ie. talking to God).


Pardon me Jerry, but I must mention this: I agree or disagree with you - depending on how you define "prayer" (talking of God) - is it verbally or silent prayer? Don't forget that the mute and deaf cannot talk!
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