Amens

[sarcrew]

It's really up to the pastor/teacher. If you are trying to teach something to a group of people, you want them to pay attention and learn it. It doesn't matter if they are getting an emotional "buzz" from one thing you said because they understand it or agree with it or whatever. When it comes to teaching the scriptures, all truth should have the effect of encouraging, reproving, motivating, delighting - at least to some degree, so why isn't there constant "amening" where that is the rule? Indeed, if I say "amen" to one point, does that mean I don't agree with or don't care about another point? And why am I calling attention to myself in any case, and distracting other believers from learning what they have come to learn? Better to keep this in your heart than call attention to the fact that YOU are enjoying a particular point. Amening is to me a symptom of the wrong thing coming from the pulpit and the wrong attitude/response from the congregation. Pastors who want an enthusiastic, overt, and obvious response from their congregations are going to end up doing and saying things designed to elicit such responses instead of teaching the scripture. They are going to be tempted to "preach sermons" rather that "teach the Bible". Indeed, the desire of men in the pulpit to be stroked this way is a big part of the reason why there isn't much Bible teaching going on, and the desire of the congregation to be entertained in this way instead of being taught only contributes to this trip down the slippery slope of bread and circuses instead of truth and spiritual growth. Since in event there is very little solid information coming from 99% of pulpits and since 99% of congregants are not interested in learning anything about the Bible anyway, I suppose this is much ado about nothing in practice.

Love,
Madeline

I would agree a pastor shouldn't seek out Amens. But I see the "Sunday Service" differently. Every Baptist church I have been to held Bible classes before the "Sunday Service" when the Pastor gave a sermon. That service was to me more about praising God and being uplifted by the Pastor's insight into Scripture. They would typically select a topic for the sermon and demonstrate how we can apply Scipture to that topic. For me the "Sunday Service' was and is very much about emotion. That's why we sing hymns in that service and not in Bible class. IMHO

Wayne

[JerryNumbers]

Wow, its amazing, the thoughts some have about amens.

I never in my life seen anyone say amen and look at their wife, husband nor anyone else as if it applied to them.

But, besides that, what did all of God's people say? Figure that out from the Bible them y'all might change your mind about amens.

Anyone setting in preaching services that thinks the message is for someone else, have attend for the wrong reason and are not getting one single thing out of attending church services.

If someone saying amen disturbs you, I feel for you.

[Jerry]

Saying Amen during the church service is Biblical:

1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Of course, discernment is needed - but to arrive at the conclusion that we shouldn't say Amen at all goes against the evidence.

[chev1958]

Amening is to me a symptom of the wrong thing coming from the pulpit and the wrong attitude/response from the congregation.

Thanks, Madeline, that's a real encouragement for preachers. :roll

Mitch

[dwayner79]

Yea, Madeline, I got to say, I think your last post paints a picture skewed from reality (not to mention a few logical fallacies in there :smile ).

First, I am a big fan of teaching while you preach. I would rather err on the side of lecture, then emotional preaching, but, (and a year ago, I may not have said this) preaching is not just teaching. Jay Adams goes a little far in my estimation, but you should pick up "Preaching with Purpose" (its cheep and relatively short) to see what I am referring to. The purpose of preaching is not just to teach, but to teach in such a way that people are moved by the Holy Spirit to respond. Real "text book teaching" would never give practical application.

I would also say that the attitudes you describe of pastor's and people are an unfair characterization of reality. Most people say amen when they especially agree with a point. That does not mean they do not agree with the rest of the point, just that that one stand out. There are people who can't go 5 seconds during a sermon without saying A-men. I find that distracting, but I do not know that person's heart.

All in all, I think you are taking it too far.

[5dumplings@home]

Yea, Madeline, I got to say, I think your last post paints a picture skewed from reality (not to mention a few logical fallacies in there :smile ).

First, I am a big fan of teaching while you preach. I would rather err on the side of lecture, then emotional preaching, but, (and a year ago, I may not have said this) preaching is not just teaching. Jay Adams goes a little far in my estimation, but you should pick up "Preaching with Purpose" (its cheep and relatively short) to see what I am referring to. The purpose of preaching is not just to teach, but to teach in such a way that people are moved by the Holy Spirit to respond. Real "text book teaching" would never give practical application.

I would also say that the attitudes you describe of pastor's and people are an unfair characterization of reality. Most people say amen when they especially agree with a point. That does not mean they do not agree with the rest of the point, just that that one stand out. There are people who can't go 5 seconds during a sermon without saying A-men. I find that distracting, but I do not know that person's heart.

All in all, I think you are taking it too far.

Saying amen is basically saying "I agree" or "so be it" or "that is true." Hopefully all of what comes from one's pulpit is true, but Dwayne is right, Madeline.

Saying amen is not a symptom of anything evil.

[Madeline]

Thanks, Madeline, that's a real encouragement for preachers. :roll

Mitch

I'm playing the devil's advocate if that's ok. :tum I usually do so when I have too much time on my hands, and to learn. Btw, you egged my on in the chatbox. I'll be back later to cause some more trouble in this thread and others. :lol:

[HappyChristian]

Yea, Madeline, I got to say, I think your last post paints a picture skewed from reality (not to mention a few logical fallacies in there :smile ).

First, I am a big fan of teaching while you preach. I would rather err on the side of lecture, then emotional preaching, but, (and a year ago, I may not have said this) preaching is not just teaching. Jay Adams goes a little far in my estimation, but you should pick up "Preaching with Purpose" (its cheep and relatively short) to see what I am referring to. The purpose of preaching is not just to teach, but to teach in such a way that people are moved by the Holy Spirit to respond. Real "text book teaching" would never give practical application.

I would also say that the attitudes you describe of pastor's and people are an unfair characterization of reality. Most people say amen when they especially agree with a point. That does not mean they do not agree with the rest of the point, just that that one stand out. There are people who can't go 5 seconds during a sermon without saying A-men. I find that distracting, but I do not know that person's heart.

All in all, I think you are taking it too far.

:thumb :goodpost:

[John81]

Wow, its amazing, the thoughts some have about amens.

I never in my life seen anyone say amen and look at their wife, husband nor anyone else as if it applied to them.

But, besides that, what did all of God's people say? Figure that out from the Bible them y'all might change your mind about amens.

Anyone setting in preaching services that thinks the message is for someone else, have attend for the wrong reason and are not getting one single thing out of attending church services.

If someone saying amen disturbs you, I feel for you.

Saying or hearing another say amen doens't disturb me at all.

And you highlighted the point I was making about those I've noticed who do indeed look at their spouse and "amen the message to them"; they indeed are not listening to the message for their edification in Christ, they are listening to the message to see how they can direct it at another.

This isn't all that different than the spouse who bashes their mate with Bible verses telling them how they must act while ignoring the verses pertaining to how they themselves are to act.

[dwayner79]

If someone saying amen disturbs you, I feel for you.

Again, for me personally it bothers me when a person says amen like its a nervous tick or something. They say it ever 3 or four words. Maybe I can find an example...

[lettheredeemedsayso]

I think we need not to be so critical of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

[JerryNumbers]

I think we need not to be so critical of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

:amen:

[bibletotingunslinger]

GOD will hear the most quiet , and here in the forum, I like to see them say ,,,
We have some pretty specific instruction for the New Testament Church, it seems sometimes that so much is pointed at the Sister, but careful study will show there is a very even balance of hard pills to swallow for both Brothers and Sisters. :coffee

[Madeline]

Yea, Madeline, I got to say, I think your last post paints a picture skewed from reality (not to mention a few logical fallacies in there :smile ).

First, I am a big fan of teaching while you preach. I would rather err on the side of lecture, then emotional preaching, but, (and a year ago, I may not have said this) preaching is not just teaching. Jay Adams goes a little far in my estimation, but you should pick up "Preaching with Purpose" (its cheep and relatively short) to see what I am referring to. The purpose of preaching is not just to teach, but to teach in such a way that people are moved by the Holy Spirit to respond. Real "text book teaching" would never give practical application.

I would also say that the attitudes you describe of pastor's and people are an unfair characterization of reality. Most people say amen when they especially agree with a point. That does not mean they do not agree with the rest of the point, just that that one stand out. There are people who can't go 5 seconds during a sermon without saying A-men. I find that distracting, but I do not know that person's heart.

All in all, I think you are taking it too far.

Read any one of the New Testament epistles, or read any of Jesus' discourses. They don't sound anything like a "sermon". That is because they are designed to communicate the truth rather than to engage an audience.

I also would vehemently disagree with the notion that unless one uses rhetorical devices, illustrations that have nothing to do with scripture, and histrionic delivery, that somehow the Spirit will not be involved!? The Spirit does not need our help. And the Spirit uses the truth. If I tell you something that is true and biblical, the Spirit makes the truth of this thing I told you real to you. If I tell you a story that has nothing to do with the Bible, there is nothing for the Spirit to work with. If I use a rhetorical device or flourish, I am operating in the energy of the flesh and you are responding in kind with the result that the Spirit's ministry will be limited to that extent, even if what I said happens to be by way of aside "true". If I rant and rave (i.e., "preach"), all I am doing is stirring you up emotionally - and it is inevitable that these emotions will get in the way of any hearing/learning of anything that might be true. Some people mistake this sort of emotional disturbance for the ministry of the Spirit. They couldn't be more wrong. The Spirit moves us with His "still, small voice" in the quiet of our hearts (1Kng.19:11-13), not by means of big noisy rallies where we get all worked up by the speaker. That is how politicians work. If we are teaching the truth, the truth will produce an impact far beyond anything imaginable, and not just a momentary emotional "rush", but a powerful, sustained and sustaining closeness to the Lord through the only true means of getting closer to the Lord: hearing, understanding, believing and living the Word of God.

Love,
Madeline

[John81]

Thankfully, our pastor doesn't "rant or rave".