What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

[Guest Guest]

There are African Christians who stay away from the drums and public dancing. In the United Stated, in the 18th and 19th centuries, drums were forbidden (ie. against the law) in black congregations in every state except for New Orleans. Those slaves coming out of Africa that got saved wanted nothing to do with drums in their worship of the true God - as they could see two hundred years ago what was wrong with them, as they came out of that. But today Christendom does whatever it wants and justifies it at the same time. Its okay as long as its "Christian" - it doesn't matter what it is, I can put a Christian label on it. How can you say my Christian rock and roll/country is wrong - it is "Christian" after all!!

So, were we then (by denying them their culture) saying that white or Anglican culture is the only Christian culture? If so, isn't that slightly pious? If the answer is "no", then do you think the average conservative Baptist church in America would have been comfortable with the Hebrew dances done to glorify God? Or was that culture also not Christian? :lol

[Guest Guest]

So, were we then (by denying them their culture) saying that white or Anglican culture is the only Christian culture? If so, isn't that slightly pious? If the answer is "no", then do you think the average conservative Baptist church in America would have been comfortable with the Hebrew dances done to glorify God? Or was that culture also not Christian? :lol

I am referring to our missionaries in Africa. Specifically in Toga, West Africa. They worship with drums and dance. It is cultural, IMO.

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

Yeah, I knew to what you were referring. My question was more directed at Jerry's post, but is applicable to aid in the furtherance of yours. We go to Africa and say "You must get rid of your drums and worship only with the organ and piano, because that is how we did it where I came from." Yet, the irony is that if we were to send a missionary back in time to just after Jesus' death he would encounter cultural issues. I daresay that the morals of cultural dress were much higher then. Of course, the standards are still very high throughout the middle east, with obvious exceptions. The Hebrew style of worship (before I run this rabbit off the trail) would not have been similar or conducive to the western, Anglican-based congregationalism. That would not make it wrong, however. Yet a time-traveling missionary might even go so far as to teach that these native methods are wrong, and then wrongly use 2 Corinthians 5:17. Yet, I wonder if God doesn't actually want cultural diversity in the church as a way of reaching more than one type of people.

In America, we have it all wrong: we make them come to the church, when the church should really go to them. Just ask Jesus.

[Guest Guest]

Hi Ver. :smile You and I are on the same page with this topic. I was asking Jerry, as well. ITA...I believe that God does "actually want cultural diversity in the church as a way of reaching more than one type of people". This has always been my opinion. Christians are drawn to all kinds of diversity with music in the church...unless, it doesn't lift up the name of Jesus Christ...and glorify Him and only Him. :duh Others can argue with me...but, this is the way I see it. We need diversity in music...b/c we have a diverse world w/ music in cultural differences. The same goes for food and dress, IMO. BTW, as long as the dress is appropriate...according to the standards of modesty.

candlelight

[Jerry]

So' date=' were we then (by denying them their culture) saying that white or Anglican culture is the only Christian culture? If so, isn't that slightly pious? If the answer is "no", then do you think the average conservative Baptist church in America would have been comfortable with the Hebrew dances done to glorify God? Or was that culture also not Christian? :lol[/quote']

Who cares about "culture"? It is only good inasmuch as it does not conflict with God's Word.

Now I remember the context of the article. It was showing how laws were passed in black communitities against drums, except in New Orleans. As a result of being allowed there, New Orleans became the starting place of Jazz and early rock and roll. There were many saved blacks who rejected the idolatrous worship they came out of, recognizing that the drum beats these rockers were now using was the same as what these black Christians listened to/danced to, etc. when they were lost.

[dwayner79]

Vir/candlelight,

Good luck. Jerry does not get this one at all. The fact is culture is pivotal important in the spiritual lives of 1st century believers as well as 21st century. Jerry in the past has not been able to recognize that. Culture should effect much of what we do, especially scriptural interpretation. A hermeneutic that does not cross the cultural divide is wrong, and is the main crux of why so many IFBs get it wrong. All of this is IMO of course. I suppose when we get to heaven, God might speak to us in Elizabethan English and tell us that if only Africans were to sing amazing grace out of the hymnal they would have been saved. I doubt it though

(I apologize in advance for the flaimbait, but my exaggerations are meant to make a point. Culture does influence what things are acceptable, and the music issue is built on some REALLY weak biblical principals. Jerry's point is that if those principles were there, then culture would not matter, and that is true. But they aren't, so it does. )

[Jerry]

Culture does influence what things are acceptable' date=' and the music issue is built on some REALLY weak biblical principals.[/quote']

If you could only show from the Bible that culture influences what is acceptable to God, then we might be able to agree there.

[pep_3000]

In the United Stated, in the 18th and 19th centuries, drums were forbidden (ie. against the law) in black congregations in every state except for New Orleans. Those slaves coming out of Africa that got saved wanted nothing to do with drums in their worship of the true God - as they could see two hundred years ago what was wrong with them, as they came out of that. But today Christendom does whatever it wants and justifies it at the same time. Its okay as long as its "Christian" - it doesn't matter what it is, I can put a Christian label on it. How can you say my Christian rock and roll/country is wrong - it is "Christian" after all!!

In the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries, the people in those black congregations would not have any say in making anything illegal. They were slaves and their "owners" were the ones who made the laws. Rock music traces its roots from slave work songs and Negro spirituals, to Jazz and Blues and then to Rock and roll, which in many of its earliest forms was nothing more then African-American songs song by white artists. At that time white America would not buy music by African-American artists. Historically much of the opposition to rock and roll were based on racism.

dwayner79 wrote:
Culture does influence what things are acceptable, and the music issue is built on some REALLY weak biblical principals.

If you could only show from the Bible that culture influences what is acceptable to God, then we might be able to agree there.

Jerry your entire argument is based on culture. The Bible says nothing about musical styles or beats.

[Guest Guest]

Jerry...Please show me in the KJV where these songs are? "Grace Greater than our sin"..."How Great Thou Art"..."My Jesus I Love Thee"..."Go Tell It on the Mountain"...to name a few Christian songs we love to sing. This culture, as Vir mentioned, comes directly from Caucasian European influence. Who am I to judge how the Africans (on the continent of Africa) worship and praise Jesus Christ as long as it glorifies the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords? There is a distinct cultural difference in the various continents.

candlelight

[dwayner79]

Here is an article that goes into more detail then I could given the time I have. From the basic skim I did of it, it hits the highlights I would bring up. Jews vs Gentiles in the NT, etc.

We are limited in the use of cultural differences within a timeperiod to only a few examples, but they are there. Time factors heavily into culture, and we cannot account for that in any given writing (though we can infer some things from OT to NT).

[John81]

There were many free blacks at that time, especially in the 19th century. They had their own churches and made their own rules for their churches. Even among the slaves they tended to have their own churches and determined their own rules of worship.

[Guest Guest]

The Historian...David Barton is a good man to watch on TV. I believe his show is called "The American Experience". He goes through the history of the US and covers Christianity in it's entirety. African Americans pulled away from the mainstream for obvious reasons...their mis-treatment in America. Music played a huge role in this. David Barton explains how Christianity among AA's would have changed America to this day in our fundamental churches. BTW, he is a white man...I am a white woman. And, ITA...with his discoveries. Oh...how corrupt a nation we really are...Lord, help us. :pray

candlelight

[Jerry]

Thanks Dwayner for the article. I have read about half of it so far.

[Guest Guest]

My question is...then? What do we say to our fellow IFB brothers and sisters in Christ in Africa who worship with drums and dance? Don't ya think it is a cultural thing? Just asking.

Many IFB's in Africa will not use drums. For those that do, consider that even some who call themselves IFB's use drums in America as well. Also consider that the charismatic movement is VERY strong in Africa.

Drums feature VERY prevalently in demon worship within Africa, witch doctors use them all the time to call demons, to supposedly drive away demons, to talk to demons, to cast spells, etc. The witch doctors consider their drums essential part of their practicing of witchcraft. That is not the only thing they use drums for in Africa, but it is certainly one of the most common if not the most common use. The drum has a great deal of spiritual significance over there, and all of it bad. If anything culturally it is more important for Africans to avoid drums than it is for us in America. That is no way to imply they must use the same instruments we use in America, there are many local instruments which are perfectly fine, but the drum is not one of them...

BTW You can see the connection between drums and demon worship in every culture that uses them, north american indian, african, south american indian, aboriginal, southeast asian, and more...

[Guest Guest]

Many IFB's in Africa will not use drums. For those that do, consider that even some who call themselves IFB's use drums in America as well. Also consider that the charismatic movement is VERY strong in Africa.

Drums feature VERY prevalently in demon worship within Africa, witch doctors use them all the time to call demons, to supposedly drive away demons, to talk to demons, to cast spells, etc. The witch doctors consider their drums essential part of their practicing of witchcraft. That is not the only thing they use drums for in Africa, but it is certainly one of the most common if not the most common use. The drum has a great deal of spiritual significance over there, and all of it bad. If anything culturally it is more important for Africans to avoid drums than it is for us in America. That is no way to imply they must use the same instruments we use in America, there are many local instruments which are perfectly fine, but the drum is not one of them...

BTW You can see the connection between drums and demon worship in every culture that uses them, north american indian, african, south american indian, aboriginal, southeast asian, and more...

Thanks, Seth! :smile I have heard of the use of drums as pertaining to Demon worship. I just didn't know if our fellow IFB's in Africa used them or not. This makes sense. Thanks again for the explanation. God bless you! :thumb

candlelight