Refuting Verses of TULIP belief

[arby]

Emery Bancroft teachings of Calvinism.

[Alan]

I usually start out with Romans 8:27 to get the exact context that Paul is dealing with, and proceed to verse 28 & 29, with my comments inter-spaced as we talk.

Verse 27, "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit [only the saints have the Spirit] because he maketh intercession to the will of God." Verse 28 & 29, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God [only a saint can love God], to them who are the called [the saved, the redeemed] according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also [also: in addition too after salvation: after being redeemed; after the Spirit enters the saint] did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Please also take careful note Paul stated, "among the brethren."

I then concentrate on Romans 8:29 & 30 to bring out the 'foreknowledge' of God is before predestination, and to define the biblical definition of predestination, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and them he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

" And," and "also" are key words. In talking to the saints, Paul starts with "And," after salvation, also, in addition to, the saint is predestined to "be conformed to the image of his Son," and the other gifts of salvation from verse 30-39

If I have time, I generally talk in detail about verses 30 to 39 to show that there are other blessings every saint has after salvation.

I hope the above study helped.

Alan

[Alan]

Before I continue my thoughts about the Calvinistic doctrines of TULIP, I need to add that my postings are a condensation of a Bible study that I did here on Taiwan, in Chinese, that I did in our Bible Institute of our church that we started. On Taiwan, the largest Christian denomination is the Presbyterians. The study on Calvin and his doctrines help our students understand Calvinism (TULIP) and the doctrinal errors of the Presbyterian Church. if I skip over any important parts, or you have a question that I need to clarify, please let me know.

Once I gone through Romans 8, I proceed to emphasize the foreknowledge of God. Foreknowledge precedes predestination. The Calvinist theory of predestination is that God elects those, or predestinates, individuals to either hell or heaven arbitrarily: in other  words man does not have a free will or is able to make a decision concerning salvation.

In emphasizing the foreknowledge of God I proceed to 1 Peter 1:1 & 2,"Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." The saints are in the 'elect' according to the 'foreknowledge of God the Father.' God, in His foreknowledge of all events, especially in the eternal salvation of the soul, knows (does not predestinate), those individuals who will make the decision, out of his own free will, to get saved or not.

If there is still a problem with the foreknowledge of God, the sermon by Peter is useful; Acts 15:6-30. I need to make a note here. When we discuss a passage of scripture in our Institute we discuss the whole passage; not just one verse. I am condensing a whole lot in this posting. The apostle Peter stated, "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:14 We, including Calvin, cannot fully understand the foreknowledge of God, it is a mystery to our finite minds. Therefore, a lot of people have a problem with understanding salvation, what predestination really entails (Romans 8:29). Basically put, God knows who will be saved beforehand and who will not.

Alan

 

 

[BabeinChrist]

I am familiar with the heresy of Calvinism, but am unaware of the meaning of TULIP, other than the flower.

What is TULIP?

[DaveW]

Acronym outlining the basic points of Calvinism.

Total depravity

Unconditional election

Limited atonement

Irresistible grace

Perserverance of the saints

 

[Gorship]

I understand he doesnt go through all the verses of calvinism. Honestly - in my expierence, chasing verses is a waste of time. You will always just come back to "well your interpretation is wrong!", "no YOUR the wrong one". on and on and on.

Calvinism is inconsistent within itself and implodes if you run it out logically. Now you can be a consistent calvinist and there are many (RC sproul for example). Those people you wont convince. How do you convince someone that God wants all people saved when they believe God hand picked those for hellfire ? you don't you explain why their view of God is tyrannical and walk away. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Gorship

[Alan]

Bro. Jordan,

Thank you for uploading the video.

Alan

Edited August 14, 2017 by Alan
Gorship to Jordan

[Invicta]

8 hours ago, Gorship said:

I understand he doesnt go through all the verses of calvinism. Honestly - in my expierence, chasing verses is a waste of time. You will always just come back to "well your interpretation is wrong!", "no YOUR the wrong one". on and on and on.

Calvinism is inconsistent within itself and implodes if you run it out logically. Now you can be a consistent calvinist and there are many (RC sproul for example). Those people you wont convince. How do you convince someone that God wants all people saved when they believe God hand picked those for hellfire ? you don't you explain why their view of God is tyrannical and walk away. 

Of couse it is not logical to the sinful mind.  Neither is the crucifxtion and resurrection of Christ

[DaveW]

But it is also not biblical. 

Thought up by a philosopher and developed and written down by a lawyer, neither whom were actually saved, what would you expect. 

[Invicta]

While I don't follow any 'points' I would ask if you don't think hat the unsaved are totally degenerate?  i.e. do you that the fall was not total?

[DaveW]

Not in the way that Calvin and the followers of THAT MAN (as opposed to followers of the Bible) describe it.

You obviously don't know what they teach or you wouldn't even ask it.

[Invicta]

I don't know, you are correct, how do they describe it?

Edited August 14, 2017 by Invicta

[Pastor Matt]

I've never meet a Calvinist that wasn't part of the elect. 

[DaveW]

24 minutes ago, BroMatt said:

I've never meet a Calvinist that wasn't part of the elect. 

Unfortunately, I have.

A young man was convinced by another guy that Calvinism was true, but since he still suffered under the burden of sin, he also became concinced that he was not part of the elect. Since he was not, there was no hope for him, and he stopped following the Lord at all.

Calvinism is a dangerous heresy.

[Pastor Matt]

Yes, it truly is dangerous.