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Everything posted by Gorship

  1. Best idea would be to toss a paper airplane up there with "read me" written on the wing. As he opens it you can detail your disappointment in full and explain that he needs to repent on the spot. as he is reading, send another airplane to the piano player, with the same "read me" written on the wing. When she opens it, have written: "as the piano player comes and plays softly" (he/she will know whats up). No baptist can resist soft music and a firm rebuke and not make a point to hold an impromptu alter call. Glad to be of service.
  2. Is there a plan to get the forum back on tapatalk?
  3. I understand he doesnt go through all the verses of calvinism. Honestly - in my expierence, chasing verses is a waste of time. You will always just come back to "well your interpretation is wrong!", "no YOUR the wrong one". on and on and on. Calvinism is inconsistent within itself and implodes if you run it out logically. Now you can be a consistent calvinist and there are many (RC sproul for example). Those people you wont convince. How do you convince someone that God wants all people saved when they believe God hand picked those for hellfire ? you don't you explain why their view of God is tyrannical and walk away.
  4. he is unqualified for his position. /thread.
  5. Made king and confirmed king. http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/ahaziah.html
  6. I could use some guidance. While I agree with many, many wonderful convictions of the "IFB" church. I am struggling with a lot of practices in the church, and really don't know If I "fit in" with anyone. Which on some levels is a bit depressing. Im annoyed with hobby horse preaching (Just preach the text please!). There is no doubt there are way too many scandals that are recorded in the IFB. Im tired of everytime I say I go to an IFB church and I believe in preservation, the first thought someone comes to is a youtube video of some preacher saying Homosexuals will never be able to repent.... You can't say IFB without someone equivocating that anymore into something completely opposite of how a redeemed people should be treating a fallen world. Just struggling with this whole denomination. However, to where do I go? SBC? While decent I don't believe in an overarching body. Plus as a KJV guy Ill be mocked at the door. "Evangelical"? well im not reformed. Weslyan? well I believe God keeps His children safe....


    1. John Young

      John Young

      You have to remember that every IFB church is different and independent of each other. It can decribe a movement of independent Baptist churches at most but it is not a denomination. Independent Fundamental Baptist is a description that any independent baptist can use or not as they wish to identify themselves. I typically tell people that we are an Independent Baptist Church. The Fundamental moniker I typically reserve for other Baptist who want to know "what type".

      If you look around you'll probably find a conservative Baptist church that you can feel at home in but if not there are also some independent bible churches that use KJV as well which hold to the same baptist faith as many IFB but without the "stigma" of the title. I also heard some Calvary Chapels are good but I have never been to one.

    2. Alan



      IFB churches are independent churches; it is not a denomination. What Hyles, Ruckman, Anderson, Waite, etc... has no bearing on me nor the church I stated nor my home church. I imagine you have attended, or am currently attending, an IFB church that may not preach from the scriptures as much as you think he should. I do not know. None of the churches that I attended, or started (I have started four churches), uses none of the material of these men.

      I do know that the problems of the various IFB churches that I hear from other brethren here on OnLine Baptist is, in my opinion, exaggerated.

      The devotions that I have written here on OnLine Baptist, along with the studies that I have written, are mostly sermons and teachings from our Sunday school at the church that I started and currently the pastor of. If you look closely, you will see that all (or mostly all), of them are textual, with very little reference to some of the problems that you mentioned. From the IFB churches that I have attended, these textual messages (with very little hobby horse material), is standard fare. 

      It is my hope that that Lord gives you wisdom and guidance in you life.



    3. Salyan


      Come on up to Canada - up here, no one knows what you mean when you say IFB - therefore, there are no previous misconceptions. :D

      Seriously, though, each church is different. I've no doubt there are 'hobby horse' preachers - but there are also an awful lot of simple expository preachers (I could name you a dozen in this area off the top of my hat - and we've got about 1 church every 2 hours!). Keep looking. 

      Not that I want to encourage you to go Evangelical, but just to set the record straight, not all Evangelical churches are Reformed (I actually don't know any that are?). The problems with those churches are that they gave up on standing firm on good doctrine long ago, and now they are quite wishy-washy - they don't know how and when to stand. 

  7. I ask this for your opinions, thoughts, and insights. I sometimes post on another board and (hopefully its ok) I would like to link a thread that is going on over there. NOT so that we can all march over there and say "huzzah! you're wrong!" but rather I would like to have this discussion on here. I will probably be starting another thread I would like to get some more opinions on that is in tandem to this thread but worthy of a secondary set of thought patterns. Without futher ado this is the link: Click me! So the thread there is pretty simple: Apparently DBS is "Fractured" due to Riplingers divorces (although Dean burgeon has been a TR-Only group not KJVO group but anyway) Ruckman has passed away Steven Anderson is a menace (which I don't disagree with) Etc.. Do you see the KJB issue still in full force or not?
  8. I really want to understand the debate but, read the first two pages and dont understand the disagreement lol
  9. Genesis 1:1 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. We will be looking at this text today. I would like to first however, do some equipping for all of us. To some this may be review and to some this is completely new. Before we get started in the first verses of scripture, I would like to look at the nuts and bolts of how we are going to understand our Bible. Further to that I think we should look at why it’s the Bible we study. How do we know its trust worthy? And then finally how do we understand it. This is to empower you all with the ability to know how to always be able to hold yourself and others accountable to the teaching they try and give you. There cannot be growth by hindering anyone from proper spiritual growth and understanding of the Bible. This is not to say that you all are interpreting scripture wrong. I have no way to know that or not, that’s why it may be review in spots for some. New information perhaps for the younger people and all around strengthening to your walk in faith. Let us pray and Begin. First: Why the Bible and not a different religious text? My first stop in helping to answer this question was to turn to a big brain. Ravi Zacharias for those who don't know is a very intelligent apologist. He writes the following. Ravi Zacharias wrote on a blog the following: “With the numerous religions in the world, how can Christians claim exclusivity? I am often asked this question in different settings. But I’ve always been fascinated by the fact that the Christian faith is the only one that seems to have this question posed. The truth is that every major religion in the world claims exclusivity, and every major religion in the world has a point of exclusion. Hinduism, for example, is often represented as being the most tolerant and accepting of other faiths. That is just not true. All Hindus believe in two fundamental, uncompromising doctrines—the Law of Karma, and the belief in reincarnation. These will not be surrendered. In fact, Buddhism was born out of the rejection of two other very dogmatic claims of Hinduism. Buddha rejected the authority of the vedas and the caste [sic: Ritual purities] system of Hinduism. The issue here is not who was right or wrong. The truth is that they were systemically different—both claiming rightness. Islam, as you know, is very clearly an exclusive claim to God. A Muslim will never tell you that it doesn’t matter what you believe or that all religions are true. But before we get upset with such claims, let us remember that it is the very nature of truth that presents us with this reality. Truth by definition is exclusive. Everything cannot be true. If everything is true, then nothing is false. And if nothing is false then it would also be true to say everything is false. We cannot have it both ways. One should not be surprised at the claims of exclusivity. The reality is that even those who deny truth’s exclusivity, in effect, exclude those who do not deny it. The truth quickly emerges. The law of non-contradiction does apply to reality: Two contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense. Thus, to deny the law of non-contradiction is to affirm it at the same time. You may as well talk about a one-ended stick as talk about truth being all-inclusive. Christ is either the immeasurable God or one dreadfully lost. Apply the tests of truth to the person and the message of Jesus Christ. You see not only his exclusivity, but also his uniqueness.”(http://rzim.org/a-slice-of-infinity/point-of-exclusion/) So where does that leave us? We must not be surprised at truth claims but we must test them before we believe them. If the test demonstrates truth then we are morally compelled to believe it. And this is precisely the point from which many are trying to run. As G.K. Chesterton said, the problem with Christianity is not that it has been tried and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult and left untried. There is a method of testing a worldview that is attributed to Dr. Zacharias, (that I can’t seem to find a source for) called the 3-4-5 method 1) A worldview must pass 3 tests: - Logically consistent: It cant contradict itself - Empirically adequate: It has to match what we see in reality - Existentially relevant – Its teaching must speak directly to how we live our lives. 2) A worldview must answer four questions: Origin – Where did I come from? Meaning – What am I worth? Morality – Why is it wrong to do things/ or is it wrong to do certain things? Destiny – Where am I going when I die. If anywhere. 3) Five academic disciplines used to study the worldview - Theology: Study of God - Metaphysics: the study of what is real – Just a note: Can you believe we have to talk about this now? We have masses of children who cant decide if we are really here or not. - Epistemology: The study of how we can know things - Ethics: The study of moral right and wrong. - Anthropology: The study of what and who humans are. The beauty of boiling every worldview and faith to these points is there is no need then to read every piece of literature of a certain faith. Once a worldview breaks a rule it is falsified. For example: Islam denies the death of Jesus on the cross. Islam cannot comprehend a prophet, being killed. Therefore Jesus in the Qur'an was caught up before death and perhaps switched with someone else. All the other historical evidence shows Jesus died. Greek history, Jewish history. Therefore something is fundamentally flawed. Now that would be a Philosophically motivated answer to the question of why Christianity. If your interested in those types of discussions, Ravi Zacharias' ministry has a ton of info and I highly encourage you to check them out. Perhaps you feel like the late Adrian rogers and that “Philosophy is the study of things we already know… using words we can't understand.” How about this then perhaps? Fulfilled Prophecy as a proof of authenticity of the Bible.: Looking just at Jesus, He fulfilled 333 prophecies from the Old Testament. Here are a few. His Virgin Birth. (Isa 7:14; Mt 1:23) His Bethlehem Birth. (Micah 5:2-3; Mt 2:5-6) His flight to Egypt. (Hos 11:1; Mt 2:15) His Childhood in Nazareth (Isa 11:1; Mt 2:23) His Healing ministry (Isa 53:4; Mt 8:16-17) His betrayal money by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (psalm 41:9, 55:12-14; Zech 11:12-13; mt 26:14-16, 21-25) The betrayal money used to purchase a potters field. (Jer 18-14; 19:1-3; Zech 11:12-13; mt 27:9-10) His scourging and being spat upon. (Isa 50:6; Mt 26:67; 27:26) His crucifixion between thieves. (Isa 53:12; Mt 27:38; Mk 15:27-28; Lk 22:37) The piercing of His hands and feet (Psalm 22:16; Zech 12:10; mk 15:25) The ridicule and mocking as He hung on the cross (psalm 22:7-8; Lk 23:34; Jm 19:23-24) His resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Mt 28:2-7) His ascension. (psalm 24:7-10; Mk 16:19; Lk 24:51) If one prophecy was fulfilled that would be neat. However that’s only 13, of some 300+ prophecies. Just for Jesus alone. Bearing in mind the following. The Bible is technically 66 books not 1 Written over a period of approx 2000 years by ~40 different authors over 3 continents from three different languages. Keeping all consistency and free of error. Some STILL critique the Bible and say it was fabricated for gain. 1) looking at the above how on earth would that even be possible. 2) For what gain? The Bible is a book stained in martyrdom for the cause of Christ. No story of a man using God for gain ended well for that man. So those would be two different ways to come to the conclusion that the Bible is the true text holding Gods word. There are certainly more ways to delve into this topic, for time I will stop there. Resources if your still interested, would be places such as Gotquestions.org, carm.org, RZIM.org, answersingenesis has been delving into these things, same with places like the ICR, and creation.com lots and lots and lots. So we know the Bible is our source for truth, how do we know we can trust what we have. Inspiration: Crash course in Bibliology. First thing to note: Inspiration means to be “God Breathed” therefore came straight from the mouth of God. A few false views (there are tons): Natural inspiration theory. This view says that the bible was simply written by “inspired men” just as anyone is inspired when they write a novel or a story Partial Inspiration theory. As the name suggests this gives the idea that portions and parts are inspired, however others are not. The decision of what is inspired work and what is only mans words are left up to each individual interpreter. Mechanical dictation theory. This view is that God mechanically moved the hands of the writers. No personality or person(s) distinct vocabulary or influences are shown in the text. A Biblical view of inspiration: Verbal plenary inspiration. That is each and every word in the Bible is the words of God. Written by men while fully keeping their own writing style, vocabulary and influences intact. What about preservation: Here at Bethel we have made a distinction as “The King James type”. From a leadership point of view we have taken that position and while not everyone who comes through these doors as a whole may agree with the view. That is where we currently stand. So what does that actually mean? We would say that the copies from originals to English we believe to be preserved. I would personally urge you that if you hold to this view strongly like even I do myself, let us not beat people with our convictions. More information on VPP -> From the dean burgeon society: What does VPP mean? “Verbal” means “every word to the jot and tittle” (Ps 12:6-7, Matt 5:18). “Plenary” means “the Scripture as a whole with all the words intact” (Matt 24:35, 1 Pet 1:25). So VPP means the whole of Scripture with all its words even to the jot and tittle is perfectly preserved by God without any loss of the original words, prophecies, promises, commandments, doctrines, and truths, not only in the words of salvation, but also the words of history, geography and science. Every book, every chapter, every verse, every word, every syllable, every letter is infallibly preserved by the Lord Himself to the last iota. VPP extends past just the originals, the question is can God keep His word intact from one language to the other. Dean burgeon society like we here at bethel feel God has done just that into the English language with the KJV. There are still numerous projects to take the proper source texts and get them into other foreign languages and we should be praying for those and supporting if we can. Now that we know why the Bible, how it got inspired, and that we have what was written from time past in our hands today. How do we understand it. Hermeneutics: Instead of going through every different way some people come to interpreting the Bible, lets first look at how not to do it. Things not to do: 1-Don't make a point at the expense of a text; This is known as the deductive method, or Eisegesis we do not approach a text with our conclusion set. Emotions have a sneaky way to getting into our conclusions before we have even read the text. 2-Think not of “what does the passage mean to me”, but rather what does the passage mean. What was the author getting across, and to what people? and knowing that! What is the implication of this truth? 2a-Generally; there are not multiple literal meanings to the text. While some few passages are indeed both prophetical and historical, we must use the principles outlined in a few moments to be sure that is what’s happening. Otherwise as a general rule plain meanings in scripture are singular in interpretation. 3- Don't spiritualize or allegorize a text. Eg: Davids slingshot that flung the stone that killed Goliath: The sling shot is the church and the rock are missionaries we send out to slay the false faiths in remote areas where we send them. The following is not the plain sense of the text and therefore makes no sense to claim. It sounds nice to the ears, and could make any man behind the pen feel like he's unlocked some sort of new meaning. I would submit there are no new meanings, scripture is clear, literal and singular in meaning. Through prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit in illumination (Think of a light bulb turning on; That is a supernatural assistance in guiding our knowledge and wisdom of a text, it is the spirit opening our eyes to see what God is saying) we attempt understand the word through: Historical grammatical interpretation: Exegesis (to draw out) -Literal principle: Interpret the scripture according to normal language. -Historical context: How the people think, the politics, what was going on in that time. What was the city like, what where the social pressures, customs. Etc. -Grammatical principle: look at the language, the syntax, the way things are arranged. -Synthesis: Scripture interprets scripture. -Practical principle: What are the implications of this. We are attempting to reconstruct the setting so we can understand ancient documents. We want to drop ourselves into that time and period while knowing the customs and beliefs at the time. Then see where else in scripture we see similar things and draw out the truth from the text. Then not ask “what does it mean to me” as that could lead to all sorts of weird theology. Rather ask what are the implications of this? What do I know now that I can apply practically to my life. I hope that helps equip you a bit more, to hold yourself, me, any teacher accountable. Its never wrong to ask “Where do they get that idea from?” and go looking. Ok Part 2! Genesis “Book of beginnings”: Now before we start lets ask this important question is Genesis Historical or allegory? (Biblical support for historical). It is my opinion that without taking hermeneutic jumps you must land on a literal historical view. 1) Other authors taught a literal creation event: Psalm 90:1-2 90 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. ------------- Colossions 1:12-17 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. -------------- Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. The writing: From one verse we can't delve to deeply into the structure of how Genesis is written, however we will see that the language it self is not written using allegorical words that imply personal interpretation. Genesis is written as a historical document. (a quick example would be the use of the word day yom followed by a number is always indicative of a 24hr period of time, which is what we find in genesis) Opening Genesis: In a brief sentence I would like to echo a sentence I learned in FBI. “Genesis is the story of the beginning of the Redemption of man through the promised seed of Abraham. Note this point: “THROUGH THE PROMISED SEED OF ABRAHAM”. We will get to this later in Genesis but it is extremely important we always remember this point. The Jewish people have been and still are apart of Gods plan. This will help you understand scripture from end to end. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” First what do we learn immediately? 1) God lays out clearly summarizes what He did, and leaves no doubt of His creative work, and His alone. In the beginning God a) This disproves atheism. 1) because everything must have a beginning, and everything with a beginning must have a cause. A watch needs a watch maker and the universe begs for a creator. We need an un-caused first cause for the universe. This is and must be God. B) disproves evolutionary thought: God created everything, there is no mention of a half baked creation and a period of waiting. Furthermore the Bible goes on to call everything very good at the end of creation week, billions of years of cancers and death and disease would not be a perfect creation by any means. c) Disproves pantheism. (Pantheism identifies God with the universe. The Universe is God. This is where ideas like karma come from) we see Biblically God must be and is apart from His creation. Also God created Ex Nihilo That is “out of nothing”, not a “reconstruction of the pre existing universe) d) Disproves polytheism. (ie many Gods) The Bible here speaks of one God. Now just some… information on this word God I found extremely fascinating and hopefully I dont lose you but rather peak your interest a bit. So lets pause for a second on this. We're going to get technical, so bear with me for a moment as I attempt to unpack a thought here. It should be noted the ENGLISH word here “God” is the Hebrew word Elohim → Elohim is the PLURAL of the Hebrew word “Eloah”, the (-ohim) in Elohim makes it masculine plural. However, looking at the next word bara or “Created” is a singular verb. It is implied that the verbs / context surrounding the word Elohim define the singular use/definition of Elohim (at this time in scripture). Its not lost on theologians that this “plural” version of the word God, with the singular verb. Seems to be a blinding light towards the idea of the trinity. I will in a moment read from Adam clarkes commentary (but it should be noted now once and for all. I use a lot … A LOT of commentary’s when I teach, I do not agree with any single one of them 100%… Which kind of worries me, however feel free to check them out yourself but in all things practice solid disernment, there is only one and only one perfect Book, just know that while I use a variety of resources and I encourage everyone to do the same, I am not fully endorsing anyone. ever). Continuing on: The original word אלהים Elohim, God, is certainly the plural form of אל El, or אלה Eloah, and has long been supposed, by the most eminently learned and pious men, to imply a plurality of Persons in the Divine nature. As this plurality appears in so many parts of the sacred writings to be confined to three Persons, hence the doctrine of the Trinity, which has formed a part of the creed of all those who have been deemed sound in the faith, from the earliest ages of Christianity. Nor are the Christians singular in receiving this doctrine, and in deriving it from the first words of Divine revelation. An eminent Jewish rabbi, Simeon ben Joachi, in his comment on the sixth section of Leviticus, has these remarkable words: “Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim; there are three degrees, and each degree by itself alone, and yet notwithstanding they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other.”... He must be strangely prejudiced indeed who cannot see that the doctrine of a Trinity, and of a Trinity in unity, is expressed in the above words. The verb ברא bara, he created, being joined in the singular number with this plural noun, has been considered as pointing out, and not obscurely, the unity of the Divine Persons in this work of creation. In the ever-blessed Trinity, from the infinite and indivisible unity of the persons, there can be but one will, one purpose, and one infinite and uncontrollable energy. I was going to quote from Keil & Delitzsch. However, while I love their commentary, it takes me about 30 reads to understand what they are getting at, So for your own clarity, they may be a resource for you to check out as well if you ever get to interesting spots in terms of language or culture in the OT. You can come back and tell me how many reads it took you! Ha! Also let us think about the scripture “in the beginning” If this is the beginning, this is the beginning of everything, The beginning of Time. The beginning of space. The beginning matter. (Think of energy as a form of matter) None of these can exist without the others. Can you have, matter and time with no space? Where would you put matter? Can you have space and time with no matter (energy)? What would you put into space? How about, Space and matter with no time? Of course not. When would you put anything? All three must co instantly come into being. Not gradually but instantaneous. This can only be plausible with someone/thing outside these rules creating time, space, matter and the laws that govern how they behave. This can only and therefore demands that uncaused fist cause beginning we discussed before. Beyond our level of understanding. He is God. In the beginning...“God” Who is God? - uncaused first cause. From this passage alone we can draw some simple charactistics about God thus far. As we progress through scripture we will pull out more and more and more etc. At this time, just a few things to note already. Omnipresent → He is everywhere. Omnipotent → He is unlimited in power, and able to do anything within His nature. Omniscient → He is all knowing. “Created the heaven and the earth” Created once again: This word Created Bara, in the Hebrew, is creating Ex Nihilo out of nothing. Not a reconstruction of something already existing. The Heaven Notice the separation between Heaven and Earth. Some say that it could be the solar systems in creation perhaps everything but the lights listed in Genesis 1:14. I personally would reserve the celestial bodies as a whole for those following verses. Perhaps we see the creation of vastness of space...and in this (to us) seemingly endless space. then we read: and the Earth. In the midst of all the grandeur of special creation. God creates Earth. The immediate question(s) of what is His plan? Why would He create earth? What was God doing before creation? And many more come into play and later on we can hopefully address those. I didn’t know where to tag this in for fun so right here works, does anyone else find it neat we live in a Universe? (Uni → single, Verse → spoken sentence) “And God said…” I heard that when I was 16 and came to know God as creator and moments later Lord. It has always stuck with me I’m sure many have heard it, but I still enjoy repeating it. What we do know and can say for sure real fast, God created earth. God created us, and we fell into sin. God in His foreknowledge saw our fall and had a solution. He would redeem His people by becoming a man, Gods Son, fully divine and fully man. Pay for the sins of those who trespassed Him. So that whosoever believes in Him/Jesus. Shall not perish in the sin they have laid on their own heads, But receive the everlasting life God graciously bestowed on those who love him. And it all started with Creation.
  10. Well Shalom! Have not been around to post for at least a year, Wasn't terribly active then - however I would like to find an online outlet of believers who share common beliefs and values. I understand we wont agree on everything, however, that shouldn't stop fellowship. anyway, hope to be around more often. JG
  11. Welp that convinced me lol.. sigh. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  12. lol so are you full on Arminian right here? you call me friend but have done nothing thus far but cast stones in my direction, you are far from "friendly". what does it mean to "Redeem" would be our first question: So for porn, since its very nature is that of adultery, to redeem it, would be definition 6, 3, and perhaps 1. and further to it, as I have said, it would be the collapse thereof. for rock music, we are here debating the nature thereof. I am on the side that, just due to a tone or pitch, or distortion in an instrument. or a scream or a yell in someones voice, that does not dictate a nature against God. I'm sure some prayers have been said on the battle field in shouts and yelling. So I would take definition 2; to be bought back. that is, the world has had the lock down on the style of music but it is not rightfully theirs. It (Rock music) belongs to God. Now you can disagree, but you cant say it somehow breaks my fellowship with God. until you from scripture alone can justify the statement "Rock music is ONLY of and For the world" if you feel I am out of fellowship with God. www.bethelbc.ca is our churches website, please let my pastor know your concerns as I'm sure he wouldn't want a deacon that has no fellowship with God.
  13. Redeemed pornography would be the collapse thereof. Satan has made his choice against God so no.
  14. Yup, I like brians response. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  15. my bad sir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEXPe_bAgCU I know him as "bible husky" as that's what I type to find him on YT, I think his real name is brian delinger? (spelling?) lol
  16. Appreciate the responses, very helpful thank you. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  17. I really like OB, I do however miss certain people that got removed from the forum. Although sometimes I think stones are quickly thrown for silly disagreements. Overall I think everyone means well. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  18. So I have this issue where if an author, is calvinistic, non kjb, post trib, non creation. I just dismiss them anyone just disqualifies them and I'm wondering if I'm really hindering my reading and study, although at the same time I'm wondering if perhaps this is just a leading to spend full time invested in the word until I feel comfy dividing between writings of authors I don't agree with. How about you? How do you decide what's worth investing time into or not? Sorry about formatting OB and tapatalk don't like making paragraphs.. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  19. Last night I couldn't keep a connection to ob, if I switched my IP on my VPN I could get in briefly then shut down again. Very odd. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  20. Anyone listen to Brians response to KH position on end times? What are you thoughts on him "being tortured to a post trib position". Just wanted to start a discussion on the topic since KH will probably get started in ministry asap now. Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  21. If I can be redeemed, anything can hahaha Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
  22. i seem to have been shut down for posting in this thread, will pm you my response John I've learned to understand it, some bands are indistinguishable without lyrics infront of you lol. As for the comfort piece, I don't know if I could give a satisfactory answer to appeal to everyone. So without going into a long winded explanation about where I came from pre christ etc. I find the raw emotion, to come from deep in my heart. It feels authentic to sing to with everything I have vs the alternatives. Petras version of amazing Grace obviously isn't as heavy as that. (second thief is on one of the heavier ends of metal) but allows me to sing out and bring peace to my heart more than 60 songs on the power point at church. So this is the disconnect I suppose from me to 99% of everyone else in the ifb baptist realm. I get I'm alone, and there's a lot of discernment involved in selecting bands, CERTAIN SONGS from bands, even albums, however music is the gospel, its not divinely inspired, artists will fail, they wont be as bold as I want all the time, they wont play how I want all the time, but if they are brothers and sisters in the faith, to listen to their struggles and what they are going through and their prayers and to be with them in prayer and in song is encouraging to me. There are a lot of fakes, MOST DEFINITELY. There was a band that claimed the "christian" label, and the lead singer came out and said that they were never christian and wondered how they got away with it as you just had to read their lyrics, he was recently convicted of hiring a hitman to kill his wife (it never happened). But before you slam Christian Metal or scoff at that title, do we scoff and throw away IFB (cough lancaster baptist) for some of the things that happened there? the scandals in ifb? the false accusations? the double standard and pure hatred for anything uncommon to the status quo is completely unnecessary. you dont agree, fine, i still love you but i disagree with some tenants of the argument (yes uke mike, even you I love despite your apparent thinking that I am too self righteous and prideful to hear another view). I just dont agree, you think I'm playing with fire. I think we're missing an opportunity to reach broken hearts and lost souls. You think im sacrificing holiness to do it. I think that bands don't need to sacrifice their integrity and can play the music they enjoy. To me, if I had the ability, I would love to do something like "daily in the word" with guys like this on the road, to keep them accountable and keep their eyes on soul winning. but alas just dreams. To me, and this is just me, but if bands like Bride or Petra would be more acceptable to ifb churches if they sang about the hobby horses in ifb-dom, if they went off on sprinkling, and the king James. Anyway, yes I find guitar riffs soothing and same with heavy drums and I get that doesn't jive with many here, but such is. As for the first impression piece, I suppose it would depend on the song and when they started listening to it (intros are usually instrumental). I mean 'Reformers' debut album is very blunt and clear Reformers - the greatest king: You are the only One found worthy of all the praise/You are my King whom I will love for all my days/Jesus You are the way, the truth and the life/For You I will stand up and give up my life/I will give up my life/I will give up my life for You/Every single person wants a King like Jesus Christ/No matter who you are there are things you can't deny/He's humble and honest and faithful all the time/He's loving and gentle/King of kings, Jesus Christ/You are the bridegroom King/The church: the bride, as one we sing/You're the only One found worthy/You're the only One found worthy of all the praise/You are the greatest King, deserving of full allegiance/You are deserving of more than I can give/I make the choice to honor the King/He's worthy of all the honor and praise/He's worthy/Jesus Christ the King of kings http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsboHo5FlZ4 Not all songs are about worship primarily, some are about homosexuality, political positions etc so for those it may not be super clear. As for stylistically does it make someone go "this is definitely christian" probably not until some lyrics get out. However other than like, old old hymn tapes I can't say I've ever heard anything that was stylistically blatantly "christian" before vocals came out but again I'm not from the generation of old. Anyway, I can already see the stones in the hands of a few. But there you go, as much as I can realistically give without getting into my past and why this style of music helps me in my walk. cant edit posts, sorry for the (now) triple post... OB hates my ip at this time.
  23. If I didnt care, I wouldnt have replied to your comment. I find your arguments non convincing, according to you (it would appear) its cause you feel im spiritually immature and a weak christian. As for the record labels, yes, metal music. I find Metal a whole lot more soothing when I've a rough day vs bluegrass or a 4 man acapella group. I get nothing out of those things. but this: " 3. Count It Blessing When I see the wicked gain the upper hand When the righteous fall and are persecuted And the children beg for water and shelter And it feels like all the walls are caving in Rejoice! In the storm Rejoice! It will soon pass! And when nothing is quite right and I cant see Your light I count it blessing And when everything falls in place And I can feel Your grace I count it blessing Consider it pure joy when you face these trials knowing that it produces perseverance And when nothing is quite right and I cant see Your light I count it blessing And when everything falls in place And I can feel Your grace I count it blessing." Gives me comfort. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zat9YhL2Naw (posted youtube link for it, I get you'll hate it) dont have time to get through the rest, I dont submit to scholars, nor man, but God. so again, the tempo arguments or what have you, i find useless and weak. Petra for example has shown what they can do in ministry using rock music, you may dislike it but it doesnt make it less of a ministry.
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