"Repent of Your Sins" False gospel

[HappyChristian]

Repentance does not JUST mean a change of mind. 

Repentance ALSO means sincere regret or remorse.

And God says repentance is necessary.

 

"Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."   God's the One Who said it: repentance is necessary to salvation.   That in no way indicates that stopping a sin is what leads to salvation. SORROW for sin is necessary. God said so, and that settles it.

[swathdiver]

4 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

I am merely saying repenting of all of our sins(turning from / stopping ALL of our sins) is not only NOT required for salvation, it is not possible while we are in the flesh, because our flesh is given to sin.

That's right.  You are again confusing the two forms of repentance.  

3 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

When we go soul winning we encounter some strange situations. Especially in the ghetto areas. Sometimes we'll knock a door and the person opens it and clouds upon clouds of marijuana smoke comes billowing out from behind them.

Do I tell them they MUST stop smoking marijuana or Christ will turn them away?

Of course not.  But, if they continue smoking without caring that God hates it, that's an indication that they never repented.  Repentance is also a change of mind about God and sin.

Let's say I'm a bank robber.  Before salvation I think robbing banks is ok.  Then one day you witness to me and I get saved.  My heart is new with new desires but still I am a babe in Christ with the old nature.  Now, I know that robbing banks is not ok and it displeases God.  If I continue knocking off banks, I shall be chastened by the Lord and cannot grow in grace.  The Holy Ghost is going to burden my heart to stop too!  On the other hand, if I keep robbing banks or smoking weed and think its ok with the Lord, then I have never repented.  Romans 6 teaches this.

I saw a youtube video of a sodomite several years ago.  He got saved and was tormented now over his, ahh, boyfriend.  He knew it was wrong and agonized over it now whereas just days before he thought it was fine.  If memory serves, one or the other moved out and he got right with the Lord and left that lifestyle.

 

This confusion is of the devil and the lack of repentance in preaching salvation is why so many Baptist and rock-n-roll churches are full of false converts today.

[BabeinChrist]

31 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

Repentance does not JUST mean a change of mind. 

Repentance ALSO means sincere regret or remorse.

And God says repentance is necessary.

 

"Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death."   God's the One Who said it: repentance is necessary to salvation.   That in no way indicates that stopping a sin is what leads to salvation. SORROW for sin is necessary. God said so, and that settles it.

I think you guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

HappyChristian:

I understand that a person cannot be saved without realizing that they are a sinner before a just God. I get that.

They will never come to believe on Jesus without realizing they are a sinner in need of a Saviour (Jesus Christ).

What I am asking is: Does the person I encounter smoking marijuana, do they need to turn from their sin to be saved?

 

[Invicta]

On 2017-6-25 at 0:32 PM, TheSword1227 said:

The apostle Peter told the Jews they needed to repent and be baptized. This is different from what Paul said. The things many Christians don't realize is that Peter was preaching to Jews, not Gentiles. Pentecost was a Jewish Feast Day. He accuses the Jews of killing Christ and that they needed to repent of this crime and get baptized.

This is where the misunderstanding come from. Those who adhere to a "works" theology, claim Peter taught repentance and baptism as necessary for salvation. But they miss the context. It's very important to know who was writing , to whom they wrote and what were the circumstances.

The gospel to the Jews is the same as that to the gentiles. 

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Those that are afar off are us.  even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

[BabeinChrist]

28 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

That's right.  You are again confusing the two forms of repentance.  

Of course not.  But, if they continue smoking without caring that God hates it, that's an indication that they never repented.  Repentance is also a change of mind about God and sin.

Let's say I'm a bank robber.  Before salvation I think robbing banks is ok.  Then one day you witness to me and I get saved.  My heart is new with new desires but still I am a babe in Christ with the old nature.  Now, I know that robbing banks is not ok and it displeases God.  If I continue knocking off banks, I shall be chastened by the Lord and cannot grow in grace.  The Holy Ghost is going to burden my heart to stop too!  On the other hand, if I keep robbing banks or smoking weed and think its ok with the Lord, then I have never repented.  Romans 6 teaches this.

I saw a youtube video of a sodomite several years ago.  He got saved and was tormented now over his, ahh, boyfriend.  He knew it was wrong and agonized over it now whereas just days before he thought it was fine.  If memory serves, one or the other moved out and he got right with the Lord and left that lifestyle.

 

This confusion is of the devil and the lack of repentance in preaching salvation is why so many Baptist and rock-n-roll churches are full of false converts today.

Our church doesn't allow CCM or even drums. We only sing Bible hymns as a congregation.

i agree, most CCM is so worldly that it is no different than being at a concert with the colored lights in the dark, the idolizing & exalting of the performer on stage, not to mention the complete absence of the Gospel in most CCM.

 Our Pastor doesn't allow sodomites in our church either, and it's family-integrated, meaning there is no Sunday school for children...they remain with their parents & hear the sermon just like we do, which is good because kids need to hear the Word of God too, (in addition to reading the Bible regularly at home) and it teaches them to sit still & behave.

we believe salvation is by grace through faith, NOT of works, lest any man should boast.

 

 

[HappyChristian]

54 minutes ago, BabeinChrist said:

I think you guys are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

HappyChristian:

I understand that a person cannot be saved without realizing that they are a sinner before a just God. I get that.

They will never come to believe on Jesus without realizing they are a sinner in need of a Saviour (Jesus Christ).

What I am asking is: Does the person I encounter smoking marijuana, do they need to turn from their sin to be saved?

 

See, here's the problem. You premise is that repentance is a work and a false gospel (the title of the thread). But I think the problem lies in the mixing up of repentance with Lordship Salvation (which does indeed make a works-based salvation).

Lordship Salvation is not biblical - and it is that to which you actually refer with your question, I think (and I think is your entire point).  As I pointed out, repentance does not ONLY mean a turning away from. But that is the definition you are using, and it is the only one you are using. You cannot do that.

Realizing one is a sinner comes ONLY through conviction of the Holy Spirit, which leads to repentance: remorse/regret for sin. Not a delineation of every sin which we commit/have committed/will commit. That is a splitting of hairs which has completely complicated and muddied the biblical principle of repentance. 

When a person gets saved, they put their trust in Christ and the Holy Spirit can then begin to work on individual sins, such as smoking marijuana. 

Leaving our individual sins behind, conquering them, comes as we grow in the Lord - and that is the "proof", if you will, that someone is saved.

Does that answer your question and explain where we are coming from?

I think the vociferous disagreement from folks is based upon the fact that, with the invasion of Lordship Salvation into Christianity, many good folk have thrown repentance out the window. That cannot be done.

[swathdiver]

Mrs. DePriest gave an excellent answer.  I would only add that repentance is not a "work" with regards to salvation.  It is something that takes place in the heart in an instant.  

All this back and forth reveals, I think, that we're not really in disagreement over how one gets saved but the meaning you attach to certain words is wrong and therefore the source of contention.

[No Nicolaitans]

I don't think anyone here believes that one must repent of their sins in order to be saved. However, I do think that we here would agree that one will repent for being a sinner.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation...so, one turns from a life devoted unto self and sin...to a life devoted unto God and righteousness.

They may not be consciously thinking, "I'm repenting."; however, if they are truly saved, that's what happens. They become a new creation...old things are passed away, behold all things are become new.

Edited June 29, 2017 by No Nicolaitans

[TheSword1227]

15 hours ago, Invicta said:

The gospel to the Jews is the same as that to the gentiles. 

Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Those that are afar off are us.  even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Yes, of course there is only one Gospel whereby we must be saved. However, the Jews understand the gospel of the kingdom which is Christ their king setting up an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem. This what the Jews are still waiting for. Do you not know that Peter accused the Jews of killing Christ because they could have had their King if Israel had accepted Him.

Paul on the other hand does not say: "repent and be baptized. He says BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter never says anything about the power of the cross for salvation. He tells the Jews they killed the Christ. The Jews are stricken by this and ask what should they do. Peter says repent of it and get baptized.

 

so many miss this but I sat under a wonderful bible teacher who had the gift of teaching.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by TheSword1227

[DaveW]

9 minutes ago, TheSword1227 said:

Yes, of course there is only one Gospel whereby we must be saved. However, the Jews understand the gospel of the kingdom which is Christ their king setting up an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem. This what the Jews are still waiting for. Do you not know that Peter accused the Jews of killing Christ because they could have had their King if Israel had accepted Him.

Paul on the other hand does not say: "repent and be baptized. He says BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter never says anything about the power of the cross for salvation. He tells the Jews they killed the Christ. The Jews are stricken by this and ask what should they do. Peter says repent of it and get baptized.

 

so many miss this but I sat under a wonderful bible teacher who had the gift of teaching.

 

Sounds luke you are saying salvation is different for Jews? That Peter and Paul preached different things?

[TheSword1227]

37 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Sounds luke you are saying salvation is different for Jews? That Peter and Paul preached different things?

Nope, not saying salvation is different for the Jews today. There is only ONE WAY: Jesus Christ. Do a google search and compare what Peter said to what Paul taught.

Jesus told the apostles to go only to the lost sheep of Israel and not to Gentiles. Peter admits later that Paul taught things "hard to understand." However, he validates Paul's apostleship and tells Paul and Barnabas to continue to go to gentiles with the gospel and that he (Peter) would continue to preach to the Jews. It was only until God ordered Peter to go to the gentile household of Cornelius, that Peter finally understands that God had extended salvation to the gentiles.

Did Jesus teach Peter about His death, burial and resurrection? Or did the risen Christ teach this "mystery" only to Paul?

Anyway, this is off topic sorry

Edited June 29, 2017 by TheSword1227

[DaveW]

So Peter and Paul preached the same thing but different things?

 

And I would rather do a Bible search than a Google search to find out what Peter and Paul preached rather than what some man might say about what they preached.

[wretched]

12 minutes ago, TheSword1227 said:

 

Did Jesus teach Peter about His death, burial and resurrection? 

 

Why certainly He did friend:

Matt 16: 21  From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matt 17: 23  Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: 23And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Luke 24: 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 8And they remembered his words

Also Mark 10:34; Luke 9:22; Luke 18:33; Luke 24:46;

Just because Peter and the other Apostles didn't understand it yet does not negate that the Lord taught it throughout the Gospels.

[No Nicolaitans]

1 hour ago, TheSword1227 said:

Yes, of course there is only one Gospel whereby we must be saved. However, the Jews understand the gospel of the kingdom which is Christ their king setting up an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem. This what the Jews are still waiting for. Do you not know that Peter accused the Jews of killing Christ because they could have had their King if Israel had accepted Him.

Paul on the other hand does not say: "repent and be baptized. He says BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter never says anything about the power of the cross for salvation. He tells the Jews they killed the Christ. The Jews are stricken by this and ask what should they do. Peter says repent of it and get baptized.

 

so many miss this but I sat under a wonderful bible teacher who had the gift of teaching.

 

 

If you read Peter's sermon in Acts 2, it's evident that he preached the gospel; which is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. The majority of what is recorded of his sermon has to do with that.

How could the Jews repent of killing Christ? They couldn't go back and "unkill" him. So, there was actually something else they were to repent of. It's there...in the text.

 

26 minutes ago, TheSword1227 said:

Nope, not saying salvation is different for the Jews today. There is only ONE WAY: Jesus Christ. Do a google search and compare what Peter said to what Paul taught.

Jesus told the apostles to go only to the lost sheep of Israel and not to Gentiles. Peter admits later that Paul taught things "hard to understand." However, he validates Paul's apostleship and tells Paul and Barnabas to continue to go to gentiles with the gospel and that he (Peter) would continue to preach to the Jews. It was only until God ordered Peter to go to the gentile household of Cornelius, that Peter finally understands that God had extended salvation to the gentiles.

Did Jesus teach Peter about His death, burial and resurrection? Or did the risen Christ teach this "mystery" only to Paul?

Anyway, this is off topic sorry

 

Who was Peter talking about when he said there were things that Paul wrote which were hard to be understood? Was he talking about himself? No, he's very clear about who has a hard time understanding the writings of Paul...and it's not just Paul's writings...it's also "the other scriptures".

2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

As to the "mystery", there are several "mysteries" that Paul wrote about. The only time that I know of; in which, he refers to the "mystery of the gospel", is in Ephesians 6:19. However, when taken with the whole of Ephesians and its many references to "the mystery", the context is clear that he's speaking about the church...both Jew and Gentiles together as fellowheirs.

It's also interesting to note that when Paul mentions this "mystery" which was kept hidden, his is telling how he received knowledge of "the mystery". Which is, he received his knowledge of "the mystery" by direct revelation. However, Paul wan't the only one who knew about "the mystery"...he just received his knowledge of it in a different way.

Ephesians 3:3-6

3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The other apostles (and prophets) new of the mystery too. It wasn't just given to Paul; it's just that the method of how the mystery was revealed was different for Paul than the other apostles and prophets.

One last thing...

What were some of the very last things that Christ told the apostles (including Peter) before he ascended to heaven?

(Matthew) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,

(Mark) Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

(Luke)Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations

...and what was the very last thing that Christ told the apostles (including Peter) right before he ascended to heaven?

(Acts) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Sounds like Peter knew that Gentiles would be included to me. :)

[heartstrings]

You are correct. The simple "root" meaning of the word "repent" is to turn from or turn against something. It always means the same thing but has different implications in different contexts. God "turned against" or "turned from" the "evil" He intended for the people of Nineveh after they "turned against"/"turned from" their wickedness. Likewise, pertaining to salvation, "repent" means to "turn from"/"turn against" sin.  The Bible says, (speaking of the Comforter, or Holy Spirit) "He shall convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment...". When the Holy Spirit deals with a person's heart, in order to be saved, that person must fully believe that they are a low-down, wicked, sorry sinner, headed for Hell, and deserve to go there, but at the same time fully believing that God is all good, loving and righteous and casting their soul at the mercy of God. That is turning FROM sin and self TO God. It is all done in the heart, and it can happen in the heart/mind of a deaf/mute quadriplegic who can't move a muscle or call out Jesus' name. It is pure faith, not works.