MacArthur

[Pastor Scott Markle]

1 hour ago, D-28 Player said:

Still "whosoever"

Indeed.  Yet while the Calvinistic system teaches that "whosoever SHALL CALL upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," the Calvinistic system also teaches that NOT all human individuals shall have the ABILITY to be a part of that "whosoever."  This is not simply a contradiction of "universalism," such that NOT all human individuals WILL call upon the name of the Lord and thus receive salvation.  Rather, this is a contradiction of ABILITY, such that NOT all human individuals are even granted God's grace to be ABLE to call upon the name of the Lord and thus receive salvation.  Thus the Calvinistic system teaches -- "whosoever SHALL call;" but it does NOT teach -- "whosoever CAN call."

[Pastor Scott Markle]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:59 PM, D-28 Player said:

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 0:38 PM, D-28 Player said:

If you really believe this is what Calvinists believe, then somebody has mislead you. 

No Calvinist would tell you to place your faith in some "system", but to repent and place your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:20 PM, D-28 Player said:

Well that's a very creative interpretation of Reformed theology

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:30 PM, D-28 Player said:

The fact remains that if you walked into a room full of Calvinists and claimed that Calvinists believe these things you would be laughed out of the room 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, D-28 Player said:

I'm open to answering questions but I don't believe it's reasonable or honest to expect me to defend beliefs you ascribe to Calvinists as opposed to beliefs Calvinists actually hold and which Calvinism actually teaches,  

If you want to talk about what Calvinism actually teaches fine. But if you're just going to throw out a bunch of straw men and talking points then I'm just going to ignore that. 

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 5:42 PM, D-28 Player said:

Another straw man. Calvinists do not believe that God "programs" men or that men are "robots".  

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:29 PM, D-28 Player said:

Well that's a very creative description of Calvinism you have there. 

3 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

It's unfortunate that you feel you have to slander Calvinists in order to defend your beliefs but that's up to you I guess 

Brother "D-28 Player,"

Throughout this thread discussion, you have indicated numerous times that some individual does not in some manner correctly understand the Calvinistic system of belief.

Now, in an earlier posting I presented the following seven points concerning the Calvinistic system of belief:

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 7:02 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, the Calvinistic system presents the matter as follows:

1.  A lost sinner is spiritually dead, such that he or she has no ability or desire whatsoever to come unto Christ in faith apart from some work of God's grace upon that sinner.

2.  The work of God's grace whereby a sinner is made able to come unto Christ in faith is the divine work of regeneration.  (By the way, this certainly means that within the Calvinistic system the divine work of regeneration is NOT AT ALL through faith, but is rather UNTO faith.)

3.  When God determines to engage His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, He does so through an irresistible grace, such that the lost sinner CANNOT PREVENT his own regeneration (even if he did not want to be regenerated).

4.  Once God has engaged His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, that lost sinner is now ABLE to come unto Christ in faith.

5.  Furthermore, once God has engaged His work of regeneration upon a lost sinner, that lost sinner most certainly WILL come unto Christ in faith, specifically because God's work of regeneration changed that sinner's will (desire) so that he or she now CERTAINLY WILLS (desires) to come unto Christ in faith.

6.  As such, EVERY sinner upon whom God engages His work of regeneration WILL CERTAINLY come unto Christ in faith.

7.  Then by God's grace through that sinner's faith, that sinner will be forgiven, justified, saved, reconciled, sealed, sanctified, and glorified.

Would you please reveal (according to your viewpoint) if in any of these seven points I have presented a misunderstanding of the Calvinistic system of belief?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle

[D-28 Player]

9 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Would you please reveal (according to your viewpoint) if in any of these seven points, I have presented a misunderstanding of the Calvinistic system of belief?

Nothing I would argue with (except the "according to your understanding" dig)

Why does it matter to you if you've presented a misunderstanding? 

 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

6 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Nothing I would argue with (except the "according to your understanding" dig)

Why does it matter to you if you've presented a misunderstanding? 

Brother "D-28 Player,"

The "according to your viewpoint" parenthetical was not intended at all as a "dig."  Rather, it was intended as a recognition that different proponents of Calvinism may have slightly different viewpoints on the details of the Calvinistic system, and thus also a recognition that I was asking specifically in relation to your own viewpoint as the representative Calvinist in this thread discussion.

As to why it matters -- It appears (at least from my viewpoint) that one of your primary responses throughout this thread discussion has been the claim that various individuals did not correctly understand the Calvinistic system.  Yet you had not responded unto my presentation above at all.  Therefore, I was seeking for a confirmation of your recognition that I DO actually understand the Calvinistic system.  As such, we now have a foundation upon which to discuss the precise details of disagreement without the "you do not really understand" rhetoric.

[DaveW]

On Wed Feb 22 2017 at 6:51 AM, DaveW said:

Because it was asked, and it is not appropriate to further pollute that thread.

 

MacArthur promotes:

• multiple bible (per)versions.
• Calvinism (and I don't care what name you put on it).
• Progressive worship.
• "Elder rule".
• Universal church.

Although I wouldn't recommend going to his site, if you do, all these things are cleatly evident.

He does get some things right, but 90% of rat poison is good food - it is the 10% that is dangerous.

 

I actually find it funny that there has been very little discussion about any other aspect of Macarthur's false doctrines, but it certainly has attracted the Calvinists from their hidey holes.

This reinforces my observations that Calvinist will throw out many solid doctrines in pursuit of their Calvinism.

A question by a non-calvinist about elder rule, I think someone questioned universal church, which was also answered.

Not one person has queried the multiple versions or the progressive worship, and as fat as I can tell none of these who are calvinists care about any of his other false teaching.

They appear to be happy with his universal church, his polity, his Bible versions, and his worldly "worship" just so long as he is a calvinist.

 

After all, this thread was originally about Macarthur, not calvinism specifically......

[1Timothy115]

4 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

It's unfortunate that you feel you have to slander Calvinists in order to defend your beliefs but that's up to you I guess 

 

 

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and earth. I would prefer you came to know the salvation gift of Jesus Christ my Lord. Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." It does not say just unto those who qualify under the system of Calvinism.

[D-28 Player]

2 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I spoke of the system you promote. Did you come to argue and attempt self-gratification? If you came to attempt to shake foundations, you can't shake mine, my foundation is the creator of heaven and earth. I would prefer you came to know the salvation gift of Jesus Christ my Lord. Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." It does not say just unto those who qualify under the system of Calvinism.

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, DaveW said:

as fat as I can tell none of these who are calvinists care about any of his other false teaching.

Or maybe they just don't consider those things "false teaching", preferring instead to save such a serious charge for violations of essential doctrines, and not merely whining because somebody does something they don't like.

[DaveW]

8 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

 

 

Or maybe they just don't consider those things "false teaching", preferring instead to save such a serious charge for violations of essential doctrines, and not merely whining because somebody does something they don't like.

Which proves the point - thanks.

[1Timothy115]

2 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

First of all, I'm not "promoting a system". I just commented to correct a terrible misunderstanding of the beliefs of my brothers and sisters in Christ. It all went downhill from there after all of the anti-Calvinist venom came out. 

Second, no, I came to answer a question about the Civil War and how it is perceived in the South. 

Third, thank you for implying that I am not saved but I can assure you that Christ was and is faithful to keep His promises with or without your approval.

 Fourth, nobody has said anything about "qualifying under a system of Calvinism". For you to imply that I or anyone else here has is just dishonest. 

Fifth, I'm sorry that you're so insecure in your faith that you believe that anybody who doesn't hate Calvinists must be out to "shake your faith", but that's your probIem, not mine.  I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with Calvinism or what you may believe. My intent is only to correct a misunderstanding, not to persuade anybody to believe or not believe anything. 

Such vitriol, such sarcasm, from such a fine and well spoken patriarch of the Calvinist system. 

It appears everyone in this thread qualifies for your "correct" or I could say correction. It appears you feel the need to show how 'right' Calvinism is and how wrong those outside Calvinism are.

Sincere questions.
Have you influenced any here to forgo their faith in Christ's "free gift" "to all" men  and come over to the uncertainty of the Calvinist system?

[D-28 Player]

22 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

It appears you feel the need to show how 'right' Calvinism is and how wrong those outside Calvinism are.

Sincere questions.
Have you influenced any here to forgo their faith in Christ's "free gift" "to all" men  and come over to the uncertainty of the Calvinist system?

I'm sorry you feel the need to slander me and to misrepresent both my beliefs and those of Calvinists and Calvinism. 

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Calvinists will typically always accuse Non-Calvinists of misunderstanding or misrepresenting Calvinism.

[DaveW]

Just now, Jordan Kurecki said:

Calvinists will typically always accuse Non-Calvinists of misunderstanding or misrepresenting Calvinism.

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me).

For proof, I would point anyone to the remarks of Pastor Markle, who rarely if ever loses patience in these discussions, but has had such accusations made against him.

And they claim "Straw man" whilst making straw man arguments.

And they normally come to the point of making an "ad hominem" accusation at some stage - then the rest of us have to look up what "ad hominem" actually means before we can respond to their personal attacks........

[Jordan Kurecki]

4 minutes ago, DaveW said:

They also tend to accuse others of being rude and slandering them, even whilst they make all sorts of unfounded accusations against even the more considered among us (not me).

For proof, I would point anyone to the remarks of Pastor Markle, who rarely if ever loses patience in these discussions, but has had such accusations made against him.

And they claim "Straw man" whilst making straw man arguments.

And they normally come to the point of making an "ad hominem" accusation at some stage - then the rest of us have to look up what "ad hominem" actually means before we can respond to their personal attacks........

I also would like to point out that D-28 Player did not respond or aknowledge Pastor Markle's post where he laid out and defined Calvinism.

Why do we even allow these type of people on this board? all it does is serve to distract us from having profitable and fruitful discussions, I do not like the spirit that I see manifested here thus far. probably the reason why I don't go on message boards as much as I use to.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Jordan Kurecki

[D-28 Player]

20 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I also would like to point out that D-28 Player did not respond or aknowledge Pastor Markle's post where he laid out and defined Calvinism.

And yet he acknowledged that I did 

[DaveW]

5 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

Calvinists believe and Calvinism teaches that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If you want to pretend they don't that's your problem. 

"Whosoever". Period.

Would you care to define who makes up the "whosoever" precisely?

Rather than leaving it up to us to try figure out what you mean by "whosoever".