Making America Great Again

[No Nicolaitans]

Also, let's remember that a nation's "greatness" (or lack thereof) may not necessarily mean that a particular nation is enjoying the blessings of God.

Rome was one of the most (if not the most) hedonistic, horrific, deviant, and idolatrous nations to ever have existed...yet, they were a "great" nation. They ruled the world for 500+ years, but I just don't believe they did so through the blessings of God. However, God used Rome to fulfill his purpose. Rome was a major player in the events surrounding Christ and the apostles...so he "allowed" them to be a "great" nation.

Can America be great again? Most certainly it can. What's one way for that to happen? For its rulers to follow biblical principles despite the sin that may be prevalent. We are into the beginning days of Trump's presidency, but I have hope that despite Trump's personal lack of biblical principles knowledge, he appears to be making some wise decisions that can be traced to biblical principles...which is a far cry from Obama's open and public ridicule and mockery of God's word; in which, he showed his own lack of understanding of God's word.

[1Timothy115]

Alan, just a personal thought that maybe a new thread for all the post election-inauguration comments? Maybe 1st 100 days?

Mike, agree God is in the forgiving business 2 Chron. 7:14.

I may have another perspective on this but just requesting clarification before I present any argument. I'm not sure what you mean in this one sentence.

16 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se.

 

[Ukulelemike]

3 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Alan, just a personal thought that maybe a new thread for all the post election-inauguration comments? Maybe 1st 100 days?

Mike, agree God is in the forgiving business 2 Chron. 7:14.

I may have another perspective on this but just requesting clarification before I present any argument. I'm not sure what you mean in this one sentence.

 

"Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se."

The entire New testament is written and directed to churches and individuals, not to nations. The OT, we see God continually dealing tih entire nations: Israel, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, etc. Their national sin brought about national judgment, as we saw in the five cities of the plains, and many others.  The books were written with the nations in mind.

Today we don't see that-this is a time of grace, when God is calling individuals to salvation. WHile certainly God dealt with individuals, as well, in the OT, the books were written to nations, to cities, to peoples, while the time of faith and grace is God working with individuals unto salvation. God cried to all Israel to be saved-today He calls for me to be saved, for you to be saved, and for each person to be in obedience. It seems a lot more focused on persons, rather than peoples. Does that make sense?

I guess for some proof, outside of Israel some 2000 years ago, we haven't really seen God's wrath fall on any nations the way it fell on them in the Old Testament. Those cities were completely consumed, never again inhabited. I can't remember when God has judged a nation like that in the last many couple thousand years. or maybe I'm just missing something, because I think we can ALL think of some that sorely need it!

[Alan]

1Timothy115,

I do not mind your thoughts at all. I have always enjoyed your perspective on the subjects that you have talked about.

I will say one thing though, do not be surprised if everything that President Trump does in his first 100 days is resisted every step of the way. Every wrong move, every slip of the tongue, every mistake he makes (whether intentional or intentional), will be brought forth, criticized, and repeated, and condemned, in an effort to destroy him and the agenda that he has for America.

Like the national News Media, and their extreme hatred for Trump, the folks against Trump will repeat his mistakes , supposed mistakes, as many times  as possible in order to people forget his good actions and to try and derail your thread. Like the News Media, they will berate his actions, call him a racist, call him unloving, and bring up all of the mistakes (and sins), that Trump has made in life in order to destroy his effectiveness.

If you do make such a thread, I will try and back you as much as possible.

Alan

Edited January 26, 2017 by Alan
spelling

[heartstrings]

Have you ever sat in church and done this? I have many times. Is she full of the joy of the Lord? I can't say. But I can only imagine how overwhelming all of this must be to this precious lady. God bless the Trumps. I'm praying for them.

Edited January 26, 2017 by heartstrings

[1Timothy115]

4 hours ago, Alan said:

1Timothy115,

If you do make such a thread, I will try and back you as much as possible.

Alan

Nope, I don't want this thread derailed if that was your understanding. I would have supported a new thread from you with anything I found which might encourage further discussion. I don't want to start a thread.

[Alan]

President Donald Trump is in the process of making America great by also making America safer.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil..." Romans 13:3  for those Americans who want to have good works, and live in a safe and prosperous nation, President Trump will be a blessing.

President Trump has signed an executive order in the vetting of the refugees coming from Muslim countries to America. This order will help America become great as she once was. The Obama administration did not vet the Muslims coming into America and his decision caused great harm to our country, caused our citizens to hate one another, created terrorist acts (the killing of Americans on American soil by Muslim extremists), and caused fear in the hearts of Americans. President Trump is making tangible orders to reverse the destructive leadership of Obama and the Democratic party.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/27/trump-signs-executive-order-for-extreme-vetting-refugees.html

May God continue to lead President Trump in his executive powers as he leads America.

Alan

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Alan
inseted refugees coming from

[1Timothy115]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Ukulelemike said:

"Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se."

The entire New testament is written and directed to churches and individuals, not to nations. The OT, we see God continually dealing tih entire nations: Israel, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, etc. Their national sin brought about national judgment, as we saw in the five cities of the plains, and many others.  The books were written with the nations in mind.

Today we don't see that-this is a time of grace, when God is calling individuals to salvation. WHile certainly God dealt with individuals, as well, in the OT, the books were written to nations, to cities, to peoples, while the time of faith and grace is God working with individuals unto salvation. God cried to all Israel to be saved-today He calls for me to be saved, for you to be saved, and for each person to be in obedience. It seems a lot more focused on persons, rather than peoples. Does that make sense?

I guess for some proof, outside of Israel some 2000 years ago, we haven't really seen God's wrath fall on any nations the way it fell on them in the Old Testament. Those cities were completely consumed, never again inhabited. I can't remember when God has judged a nation like that in the last many couple thousand years. or maybe I'm just missing something, because I think we can ALL think of some that sorely need it!

I agree with much of what you say. Here are some thoughts I've pulled together after some time to reflect on this. I may have stumbled on a change of thought from, "our nation is less significant in God's plan and will than we might consider" to one even more grim.

I know much of what I will say is common knowledge but, bear with me, in presenting my thought. Why would God deal with nations today? I believe God opens doors to nations today where the gospel needs to be heard according to His will. I also believe nations are preparing and aligning themselves against Israel. This alignment is not God’s will but, he foresaw this and foretold it would occur. In Matthew 24:7 Jesus spoke of nations and kingdoms which would war against one another. I also believe individuals encourage, support, and elect governments for their individual needs, preferences, and personal motivations. These reasons could be Godly or sinfully rooted.

In the United States, we have “the blessings of liberty” which provide for our freedom to speak (type) freely within our 1st amendment. However, if our government of the people decided there would be no more freedom of religion, we Christians would suffer for the will of the majority. Yes, as individuals we would be no less saved; “all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” I believe God allowed us to form this nation, “conceived in liberty.” Some say the framers, founders, were “non-Christian.” Some may not have been but, I believe fully that God held their hearts in His hand and moved them to create what we now call the United States. Now God sees us as a nation, a group of individuals controlling our direction to fulfill His will and His purpose. For all we know our purpose may be to show man that under the very best of man’s intentions we cannot avoid the pitfalls of fallen and sinful man to spoil. Even with ever increasing knowledge and self-confidence we corrupt our way and God’s gift. We just may be the last example of mankind’s inability to be self-directed.

I believe today, at least in the United States, God is dealing with our nation, or at least the hearts and minds of those who will hear His voice. I’m thankful, the current president has the aid of a vice-president like Mike Pence. So, yes I believe God deals with nations (groups of people forming a government).

[weary warrior]

9 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

Here's an honest, factual criticism of Trump: the EOs he's signing are not constitutional. Yep, they seem to be great. But here's a newsflash: they are just as unconstitutional as the EOs that BO signed. Just because they contain some good things does not make them right. He is bypassing Congress in exactly the same way BO did, and he is being lauded for it by many conservatives and Christians who apparently don't care whether the POTUS actually keeps his inaugural pledge to uphold the Constitution. 

Doing wrong to do right is still wrong. Regardless of whether one is POTUS or garbage collector.

I'm not going to laud someone just because of the servant position they hold...

Actually, many of Trumps EO's are simply countermanding  and nullifying Obama's EO's. It takes an EO to undo one. If it wasn't a congressional law in the first place, you don't use congress to repeal it. An executive action and a law are two different things.

[Alan]

Brethren,

Here is a link that looks into the legal aspect of Executive Orders as a reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

I did not primarily start this thread on trying to sort out the legal aspects of Executive Orders. My main thrust in this thread is to bring out the actions that President Trump is doing is to undo the damaging Executive Orders, regulations, laws, that the Obama administration executed.

It is my hope that the Congress and Senate, in the process of time, makes the Executive Orders that President Trump is issuing into legal, and permanent laws of the land, as HappyChristian is expressing. 

Either way, I firmly believe that the actions that President Trump is the first step in making our country great, and safe, again.  

Alan

 

[swathdiver]

The President will be forced to use EOs at times until those statists running both houses of Congress are run out of office.  

Edited January 29, 2017 by swathdiver
Grammar

[Alan]

 

I understand that wikipedia is not the best source for a lot of things. I did a quick search on the internet concerning Executive Orders and came away somewhat disappointed. Maybe, you, or one of the other brethren more knowledgeable in Executive Orders, may be able to start a different thread in order to teach us further on Executive Orders.

Please take note, in my previous posts, I have tried (maybe not completely successful), to let all of us know that his actions thus far have been through Executive Orders and not by laws mandated by congress. As I stated before, President Trump is using the Executive Orders as a tool to overcome the destructive policies of the Obama administration, the feminists, the Socialists, the Communists, and the Democrats, who have tied to destroy the greatness of America. I do sincerely believe that the Executive Orders issued thus far will help America out of the fiscal mess our country is in through unfair trade agreements,  hinder Muslim extremists from entering America, and help America become great again.

Due to the nature of politics, the character flaws of Trump, and the extreme amount of lies that we hearing from the lying press and Democratic liberals, I deliberately wanted to limit the discussion on just the positive actions that President Trump is taking that will help America become great again. So, you are correct about not wanting negative posts about Trump; his flaws are many. So, forgive me for being so slanted in this thread.  I do though want to hear your thoughts on whether or not the steps he is taking is beneficial to our country. I am trying to make the distinction between Trumps character flaws and his actions. I know this is hard for all of us; but I am trying.

It is my sincere hope that the Congress fulfills its obligations as defenders of the Constitution of the United States and makes the laws necessary to make our country great again as President Trump is attempting to do. It is my hope that after a period of time that President Trump, or some other legislator, introduces legislation to make the actions that is being done through Executive Orders now, and make these changes permanent.

Alan

[Alan]

President Trump issued an Executive Order directing the Department of Homeland Security to enforce a travel ban to 7 predominately Muslim countries. This action by President Trump is a first step (and hopefully not the last step), in vetting those Muslims, and/or terroists, who would cause terriost acts within the borders of the Unites States.

This step by President Trump is a necessary step to protect us (the citizens of the United States), and is one of actions that will make America a great country again for the protection of its citizens. So, we can go about our daily business, family life, worship, without fear of terrorist attacks.

Part of the travel ban was halted (by the Judiciary), due to some Muslims being detained at some airports. But, according to the below linked article, the travel ban is still in forcce. 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/29/dhs-will-continue-to-enforce-trumps-travel-ban.html

I think the Executive Order by President Trump is prudent, contitutional, and good for America. It is not necessarily good for the world, but, President Trump, rightly so, is performing the responsibility of the office of the President of the United States and not of the world.

Alan

[Invicta]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

President Trump issued an Executive Order directing the Department of Homeland Security to enforce a travel ban to 7 predominately Muslim countries. This action by President Trump is a first step (and hopefully not the last step), in vetting those Muslims, and/or terroists, who would cause terriost acts within the borders of the Unites States.

This step by President Trump is a necessary step to protect us (the citizens of the United States), and is one of actions that will make America a great country again for the protection of its citizens. So, we can go about our daily business, family life, worship, without fear of terrorist attacks.

Part of the travel ban was halted (by the Judiciary), due to some Muslims being detained at some airports. But, according to the below linked article, the travel ban is still in forcce. 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/29/dhs-will-continue-to-enforce-trumps-travel-ban.html

I think the Executive Order by President Trump is prudent, contitutional, and good for America. It is not necessarily good for the world, but, President Trump, rightly so, is performing the responsibility of the office of the President of the United States and not of the world.

Alan

There was a report on the news an hour ago that this was for 90 days, till vetting ptocedures are in place.  The ban doues  not include Saudi or Pakistan.

[fastjav390]

On 1/25/2017 at 6:35 PM, Ukulelemike said:

Well, how many children did those of Israel murder at the hands of Moloch? But when the nation turned to Him, he forgave them. Even more so will he do now.  Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se.

America isn't Israel. There is no Abrahamic or Davidic covenant between America and God so he has no obligation to us. God destroyed nations to brings Israel back to himself. Also, I recall a place in the OT where it says God was taking away the righteous to spare them from the wrath to come.

1 hour ago, Invicta said:

There was a report on the news an hour ago that this was for 90 days, till vetting ptocedures are in place.  The ban doues  not include Saudi or Pakistan.

The majority of "refugees" (military aged males) is coming from from the nations Trump listed. That is why no Saudi Arabia or Pakistan is mentioned. 

2 hours ago, Alan said:

President Trump issued an Executive Order directing the Department of Homeland Security to enforce a travel ban to 7 predominately Muslim countries. This action by President Trump is a first step (and hopefully not the last step), in vetting those Muslims, and/or terroists, who would cause terriost acts within the borders of the Unites States.

This step by President Trump is a necessary step to protect us (the citizens of the United States), and is one of actions that will make America a great country again for the protection of its citizens. So, we can go about our daily business, family life, worship, without fear of terrorist attacks.

Part of the travel ban was halted (by the Judiciary), due to some Muslims being detained at some airports. But, according to the below linked article, the travel ban is still in forcce. 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/29/dhs-will-continue-to-enforce-trumps-travel-ban.html

I think the Executive Order by President Trump is prudent, contitutional, and good for America. It is not necessarily good for the world, but, President Trump, rightly so, is performing the responsibility of the office of the President of the United States and not of the world.

Alan

Yup, protect our borders, language and culture. People forget about the Immigration Act of 1924 that banned almost all immigration for 50 years so those here could be assimilated. There is nothing new to what he is doing.