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9 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

2 days in and the man is trying to change facts and distort truth. Sorry, he is under the rule of the prince of this world. 

Unfortunately, he will deceive many...keep your eyes and ears open. Be wise as the serpent and gentle as the dove. 

He's "under the rule of the prince of this world" yet still ordained of God. If he wasn't he wouldn't be where he's at now. Unless you have a saved pastor as POTUS I guess that would be the case but you will never see that. In fact, you shouldn't because a pastor giving up his pulpit for politics doesn't seem right to me.

I think it is kind of petty arguing about who had the most people at their inauguration. The truth is is that conservatives or middle America don't tend to go out to political events as liberals.  This would explain the difference in crowd sizes. That and the fact that the nation is now more divided than when Obama took office in 2009.

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Like Obama, I will constantly pray for his salvation, support him when he honors God and oppose him when he does not.   President Obama and Secretary Clinton share the same ideology. Indeed, they

Brethren, I stated the above statement on August 9, 2016. Today, I saw the attached article, "Trump and Reagan Shared a Common Goal, American Greatness." http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/

I recently watched a video (I'll try to find it again) that talked about Sweden (the "perfect" country) and the aftermath of them accepting so many "refugees". While I'm sure a small percentage moved

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3 minutes ago, fastjav390 said:

He's "under the rule of the prince of this world" yet still ordained of God. If he wasn't he wouldn't be where he's at now. Unless you have a saved pastor as POTUS I guess that would be the case but you will never see that. In fact, you shouldn't because a pastor giving up his pulpit for politics doesn't seem right to me.

I think it is kind of petty arguing about who had the most people at their inauguration. The truth is is that conservatives or middle America don't tend to go out to political events as liberals.  This would explain the difference in crowd sizes. That and the fact that the nation is now more divided than when Obama took office in 2009.

It's not the arguing, it's the lying. Its the attempt to twist things to present lies as truth and truth as lies. I'd have more respect for the man if he had given a coherent view of things and carried that on. There is something about him that disturbs me down to my soul. I cannot describe it. The last time I felt that way, I found out I was right about who that person really was. As a result, I will be in prayer for my country and for the world. I fear he has blinded far too many people. I pray that my brothers and sisters in Christ keep their eyes open and do not fall into this man's string of deceptions. 

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2 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

It's not the arguing, it's the lying. Its the attempt to twist things to present lies as truth and truth as lies. I'd have more respect for the man if he had given a coherent view of things and carried that on. There is something about him that disturbs me down to my soul. I cannot describe it. The last time I felt that way, I found out I was right about who that person really was. As a result, I will be in prayer for my country and for the world. I fear he has blinded far too many people. I pray that my brothers and sisters in Christ keep their eyes open and do not fall into this man's string of deceptions. 

Maybe. Time will tell. We could be at a period in American history now that it wouldn't matter who was voted into office because the writing is on the wall.

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On ‎2016‎年‎8‎月‎12‎日 at 10:59 AM, Alan said:

Nor do I want to get in a verbal heated discussion over this matter with my friends.

Brethren,

I wrote the above admonition on August 12, 2016 for a reason. I would prefer that  we not get in a heated discussion.

Thanks!

Alan

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No one is concerned that Trump was sworn in with two Bibles - a Revised Standard Version, on top of Lincolns Bible (https://www.wdl.org/en/item/11358/view/1/9/) which was an 1853 KJB?

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On ‎2016‎年‎8‎月‎10‎日 at 9:23 PM, Alan said:

We are voting for the President of the United States, a public office, and not a church office. The qualifications for a man in the ministry is not the qualifications of a man seeking public office. Nor should Christians be limited to only to vote for dedicated Christians. When a man takes up arms and fights for his country he is fighting for the Constitution and for the government to follow the Constitution; not the qualifications for a church office. God gave the government to responsibility to defend (physically), the citizens. It is the responsibility of the man of God, the church, to stand up and defend the spiritual (doctrines), of the scriptures. I am not voting for a pastor

Genevanpreacher,

If I was looking to join the church that President Donald Trump was pastoring than I would find him using a non-KJV bible a great concern. But, as my commander-in-chief I am not going to make it an issue.

When I fought for my country in the Vietnam War, and everyone else who has been in a combat situation fought for our country, I was more concerned that my officers over me knew their business in making war and not if they were qualified to be the pastor of the church I attended.

Brethren,

I started this thread with the sole intention of discovering how Donald Trump would make our country great again economically, politically, morally, and whether or not he would abide by the Constitution of the United States in leading our country in times of peace and war.

Nor did I start this thread to use as a sounding board to downgrade, browbeat, and for others to try and nick pick the faults of Donald Trump as President. For those brethren who want to continue to find fault with everything President Trump does, belittle him, cause disrespect to him and his policies, than please start you own thread. 

Furthermore, in his first few days in office so far, I think President Donald Trump has done great and that his policies are going to benefit the citizens of the United States of America. I firmly believe that the liberals, communists, wackos, Hillary and her crowd of extremeist feminists, and the liberal press are lying about President Trump and are trying to destroy his effectiveness as the President of the Unites States of America.

Please take careful note. If you heard his inaguration speech it was clearly stated that he is the President of the United States of America and he will perform his duties as President for the benefit of America and not of the world. And, he will take away the destructive policies of Obama and the liberal policies he put in place.

Brethren, unless you can say something positive about President Trump, or give honest, I repeat, honest, constructive criticism, please leave this thread and express your negative and destructive criticisms of President Trump somewhere else.

Alan

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Bro. Alan is making a reasonable request since this thread was started by him. If someone would like to take up his suggestion to start a separate thread I would ask that you please do it in the "Lounge".

I found this article on the Electoral College this morning and thought it might add some positive information regarding the election process that so many liberals have criticized.

Here are the facts:

Trump won the popular vote in 31 states to her 19 and DC. 62% to her 38%.


Trump led in the total popular vote for all states except California.

Hillary won California 5,860,714 to Trump’s 3,151,821. 61.6% to 33.1% exclusive of the other candidates. Thus California gave Hillary the popular vote for all states as claimed by the Democrats and their media stooges.

But deduct her California vote from her national vote leaving her with 54,978,783, and deduct Trump’s California vote from his national total, leaving him with 57,113.976, he wins in a landslide in the other 49 states, 51.3% to her 48.7%.

So, in effect, Hillary was elected president of California and Trump was elected president of the rest of the country by a substantial margin.

This exemplifies the wisdom of the Electoral College, to prevent the vote of any one populace state from overriding the vote of the others. Trump’s Campaign Manager, Kellyanne Conway, whose expertise is polling, saw this early on and devised her strategy of “pathways to the White House.”

This meant ignoring California with its huge Democrat majority and going after the states that would give him the necessary electoral votes to win, FL, NC, MI, PA, OH, and WI.

At its lowest point since the civil war! Could this mean the end of the Democrat Party? When the afternoon of January 20, 2017 arrives, the Republican Party will have:

1) The Presidency.
2) A majority of the House of Representatives.
3) A majority of the Senate.
4) Almost two-thirds of all the governorships.
5) Total control of the statehouses in almost two-thirds of all the states.

And in the near future, Republicans will be able to add:
6) A majority of the Supreme Court. The above has never happened before in American history.

Think about that and let it sink in for a moment. And it's all because of one reason: Barack Obama's forcing his extreme far-left agenda on an unwilling country by executive orders, left wing judges, and obsequious bureaucrats. It's important to pass this on. With the demand that we do away with the Electoral College and take the popular vote being pushed by the media, etc, all Americans need to know that the Electoral College is working exactly as our Founding Fathers intended.

 

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I liked his speach.

I thought it a little too 'promising', but as a speach, (that sounded like he himself wrote), I thought it was refreshing.

The only reason I brought up the Bible issue is I figured some here might think that was important.

I agree with Alan.

But I really thought that would be a hang-up for such a KJB minded set of people as most on this site.

Guess it's not as important 'which Bible' is used when it comes to leaders of our nation?

I am surprised.

But let me state - I voted for a business leader - Trump, and a Christian leader - Pence. 

They are the team the Lord has for us - whether for our good or not.

And I do trust the Lord.

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5 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I liked his speach.

I thought it a little too 'promising', but as a speach, (that sounded like he himself wrote), I thought it was refreshing.

The only reason I brought up the Bible issue is I figured some here might think that was important.

I agree with Alan.

But I really thought that would be a hang-up for such a KJB minded set of people as most on this site.

Guess it's not as important 'which Bible' is used when it comes to leaders of our nation?

I am surprised.

My view is...

We are dealing with a secular office. In my opinion, gone are the days when placing one's hand on the Bible meant something to the majority of Americans. It might mean something "in the moment", but the moment is soon forgotten. I was unaware of the two-B(b)ibles issue to be honest. However, I see no difference in that and the Muslim who was sworn into some office a year (or two or three years) ago with their hand on a Koran (sorry...don't remember the details).

I just want him to do his job, do it to the best of his ability, and do it in accordance with the Constitution of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and the original vision of America. If he does that, he will far surpass the last eight years of the Socialist/Communist/Marxist takeover that has enveloped this nation...of which, this nation willingly and gladly accepted it. They didn't just accept it...they wanted it. No wonder the liberals are in a tizzy.

As Obama apologized to the Muslims, let me apologize for that last statement...if that offended anyone, then...

GET A BACKBONE AND BUCK IT UP!

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A Suggestion,

I would like to sugggest to our newer brethren here on OnLine Baptist to search my personal records of my previous Bible studies and threads concerning the KJV issue. They will discover that I believe that the Authorized Version, the King James Version of 1611, is the preserved word of God and that all of the newer versions, from 1881 to this date, are corrupt versions of the scriptures.

Genevanpreacher is well aware of this fact as we have crossed swords on this issue several times. I am apalled that he would even sugggest that I do not consider this an issue.  

My previous posts remain as I wrote it as I think I clearly expressed myself properly.

Alan

 

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We will pick and choose and hire a plumber, bring him into our home, let him lie on his back under our sink, then pay him whatever he charges to get him to do a job for us that we need done. The same with an auto mechanic, a doctor or a dentist, an accountant or our banker. We do not pick them based on their religious affiliation or beliefs, and we certainly never accuse a brother for being "unequally yoked with unbelievers" for picking and paying a man to do a job for us. Yet you actually accuse someone of collusion with the world and the devil for being in on the picking and hiring of the chief executive of our nation because that executive is not a Christian?

Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out where some of you guys get your thought process. 

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To be open about President Trump, I had great concern over how eagerly many religious leaders with good reputations got behind Trump quite early when other more viable candidates were still in the race. However, particularly how most of them did not use religion but patriotism to decide in getting behind his campaign. I considered that route after the primaries and even more so after Trump started gathering better men than himself around him but decided against it and voted third party. 

Now that Mr. Trump is my president I will support him in the office. I still have concerns about the man personally and morally but the men he gathered around himself is what gives me confidence that he will serve the country well, as long as he listens to them and so far he has. I think Pence is Trump's David, if you will, and as long as Saul does not go crazy, we'll be fine.

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6 hours ago, weary warrior said:

Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out where some of you guys get your thought process. 

Welcome to my world on OB.

It is a grand adventure. 

By the way, no one is being accused of "collusion with the world and the devil" because of anything. 

Just picking the brains of some here that condemn me for using my Bible instead of theirs, when I am not their pastor, preacher, nor minister of any sort, and do not affect their life in anyother form other than here on OB.

Yet when it comes to their beloved country's leader?

Yeah. It does get a bit fuzzy. 

And I must state - it really doesn't bother me about Trump either. 

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Brethren,

In times past, Senator Mike Lee, (R-Utah), was not for Trump as President.

Since the election, Senator Lee has has observed that President Trump is serious about a conservative agenda to help the United States economy, get rid of the unnecessary regulations that  the Obama administration put into place, defend our borders, appoint conservative judges to the supreme Court, and will practice a limited form of government as our Constitution sets forth.

I would suggest all of the brethren to listen to the video and formulate their own opinion. 

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5294291902001/?#sp=show-clips

Certainly the agenda to make our country great again is not a minor matter nor does President Trump think he can succeed without help from the House and Senate branches of our government. Senator Lee stresses that we all need to get behind President Trump to get the job accomplished.

Cannot we pray that God again blesses our land? Cannot we publicly get behind President Trump and give him the moral support from the Independent, fundamental, Baptist community? Wouldn't it be a great testimony for the IFB Movement to be a leader in supporting the conservative agenda that Presisdent Trump is trying to accomplish?

I for one will pray that President Trump is sucessful in his leadership of the United States of America and be publicly behind his endeavor to make America great again.

Alan

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40 minutes ago, Alan said:

Brethren,

In times past, Senator Mike Lee, (R-Utah), was not for Trump as President.

Since the election, Senator Lee has has observed that President Trump is serious about a conservative agenda to help the United States economy, get rid of the unnecessary regulations that  the Obama administration put into place, defend our borders, appoint conservative judges to the supreme Court, and will practice a limited form of government as our Constitution sets forth.

I would suggest all of the brethren to listen to the video and formulate their own opinion. 

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5294291902001/?#sp=show-clips

Certainly the agenda to make our country great again is not a minor matter nor does President Trump think he can succeed without help from the House and Senate branches of our government. Senator Lee stresses that we all need to get behind President Trump to get the job accomplished.

Cannot we pray that God again blesses our land? Cannot we publicly get behind President Trump and give him the moral support from the Independent, fundamental, Baptist community? Wouldn't it be a great testimony for the IFB Movement to be a leader in supporting the conservative agenda that Presisdent Trump is trying to accomplish?

I for one will pray that President Trump is sucessful in his leadership of the United States of America and be publicly behind his endeavor to make America great again.

Alan

I have a question. Will God bless a land that has legalized gay marriage and has aborted millions of babies? You look around and it seems he has but is it an illusion? Seems like it's all a house of cards if you examine it closely (i.e. once the credit runs out we're finished).

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3 hours ago, fastjav390 said:

I have a question. Will God bless a land that has legalized gay marriage and has aborted millions of babies? You look around and it seems he has but is it an illusion? Seems like it's all a house of cards if you examine it closely (i.e. once the credit runs out we're finished).

Well, certainly he can, but we need to be repenting and going the other way. Trump has actually made a good first move that way-remember, it took time for Hezekiah to clean out the idols from Israel, and never actually did it all the way, yet God blessed Israel under him for what he DID do. And, despite not really knowing his heart and the condition of his soul, he DID seek, at least in word, to honor God in his inauguration. Let us hope his actions continue in that way.

 

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8 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Welcome to my world on OB.

It is a grand adventure. 

By the way, no one is being accused of "collusion with the world and the devil" because of anything. 

Just picking the brains of some here that condemn me for using my Bible instead of theirs, when I am not their pastor, preacher, nor minister of any sort, and do not affect their life in anyother form other than here on OB.

Yet when it comes to their beloved country's leader?

Yeah. It does get a bit fuzzy. 

And I must state - it really doesn't bother me about Trump either. 

There were some posts on the first page of this forum that did basically accuse believers of collusion and yoking up with unbelievers for voting for non-christians.

Trump's foibles are there for all to see, that's for sure. He doesn't hide them. And no, I don't put much stock in his "Christianity". That's not my job. He will have one Judge who will judge his heart at the end, and it's surely not going to be me. Paul tells us to pray that the government will leave us alone to worship in peace. I think Trump will at least do that. Also, as has been mentioned above, the much more important signal for us regarding the days ahead are who he is putting into positions of importance. Making Mike Huckabee the ambassador to Israel was HUGE. Much, much more significant than what Bible he used to swear in on at his inauguration, or who he had pray. It's his policies and actions that will show his intentions.

If you study some of the truly legendary greats in history that God used to pull nations out of dark times, like King James I, Winston Churchill, Andrew Jackson, Sam Houston etc. you'll find many of them were rascals in their private life, but it was their thorny character that God used to exercise his will. A gentle Christian shopkeeper has his place, but God often uses fire to fight fire. Read about the some of the flawed crazy men he chose to save Israel from bondage time after time in Judges, or look at men like Jehu, for example.

Study out the man who's name is on your Bible (excluding GB, of course ). This was not a man you would vote as pastor of your church, but God used the secular, unsaved ruler of an empire to give you one of the most precious gifts he has ever blessed man with.

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11 hours ago, fastjav390 said:

I have a question. Will God bless a land that has legalized gay marriage and has aborted millions of babies? You look around and it seems he has but is it an illusion? Seems like it's all a house of cards if you examine it closely (i.e. once the credit runs out we're finished).

I believe our nation is less significant in God's plan and will than we might consider. I just read Ezekiel 8 the other day. The idolatry in Jerusalem, in the Temple, by the Elders was disgusting. Idolatry was rampant, it took on every form of misplaced worship and adoration, conceivable by sin depraved man and woman. To really understand what was described in this chapter I referred to Barnes notes and understand why in Ezekiel 8:18 God said, "Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." Yet God spared a remnant. If not for Jesus Christ and grace through faith I think this nation would be as desolate as Jerusalem after Babylon took them into captivity.

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John Young and 115Timothy,

Thank you for your appreciating my call to prayer.

Ukelelemike,

Thank you for your good post and reminding us the long-time effort that it took King Hezekiah in cleaning up the land of Israel of the idolatous worship. King hezekiah is a good example for all of us in trying to clean up the spiritual, moral, doctrinal, and fiscal mess that our country is currently in. I appreciate your posting very much.

Wearywarrior,

I appreciated your posting and insight very much. It was an encouragement to my heart.

Brethren,

In the link below are some of the items that President Trump has initiated in an effort to cleanse our land of the fiscal, regulatory, and business mess that the previous administration (and the liberal and comunist element), caused our country to be in. I would encourage all of you to consider reading the article.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/24/list-trumps-executive-orders.html

Again, I am encouraged of the steps that President Trump has accomplished thus far. It is my hope, and prayer, that the agenda for our country that President Trump has outined thus far will be able to come to fruition in the days ahead.

Alan

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"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

  For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." - 1 Timothy 2:1-4

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9 hours ago, Alan said:

In the link below are some of the items that President Trump has initiated in an effort to cleanse our land of the fiscal, regulatory, and business mess that the previous administration (and the liberal and comunist element), caused our country to be in. I would encourage all of you to consider reading the article.

Alan,
The full effect of the ban on funding for abortions can be read here. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/24/trump-expands-anti-abortion-ban-to-all-us-global-h/

If you read this article, I'm sure everyone here is aware of the code words for aborting babies "family planning".

I believe the majority here will pray for Pres. Trump and the new administration to be successful. You may consider adding in the words from Job 5:12 for our God to dissappoint "the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise."

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1 Timothy 115,

Thank you for informing us of the full impact of President's Trumps righteous actions. I appreciate you bringing the full impact of the article to our attention.

Brethern,

President Tump is doing the best job he can in protecting the unborn and reversing the evil laws concerning abortion.

President Trump is not only trying extemely hard in defeating the evil laws and regulations of the previous administration, he is also trying hard to bring back morality, and righteous, laws to the United States of America.

One of, there are many, reasons why the liberals, the feminist, the wackos, the communists, the abortion providers, are trying to destroy Presiddent Trump is due to his bold actions to rid our country of evil laws and regulations. The actions, the lies, the rioting, the foul mouthed words that the liberals, democrats, lying news media, is indicative of the evil intent in their hearts to destroy America and the righteous agenda of President Trump. 

For those brethren who want to see President Trump succeed in his effort in his plans to make America great again, this is the time to pray for him and back him publicly.

May God bless, protect, help, and lead President Trump.

Alan

 

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On 1/24/2017 at 0:49 PM, Ukulelemike said:

Well, certainly he can, but we need to be repenting and going the other way. Trump has actually made a good first move that way-remember, it took time for Hezekiah to clean out the idols from Israel, and never actually did it all the way, yet God blessed Israel under him for what he DID do. And, despite not really knowing his heart and the condition of his soul, he DID seek, at least in word, to honor God in his inauguration. Let us hope his actions continue in that way.

 

If abortion is murder than will God avenge the blood of those innocents murdered? Seems like to me he just won't forget it and let it slide. If this is the case than nothing will turn America around. The nation has been delivered up to it's own lusts. I'm hoping this is not the case and Trump will at the least allow believers worship and serve God in peace and not attempt to force us to partake of their evil. This is what Obama was beginning to do.

17 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I believe our nation is less significant in God's plan and will than we might consider. I just read Ezekiel 8 the other day. The idolatry in Jerusalem, in the Temple, by the Elders was disgusting. Idolatry was rampant, it took on every form of misplaced worship and adoration, conceivable by sin depraved man and woman. To really understand what was described in this chapter I referred to Barnes notes and understand why in Ezekiel 8:18 God said, "Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." Yet God spared a remnant. If not for Jesus Christ and grace through faith I think this nation would be as desolate as Jerusalem after Babylon took them into captivity.

I heard a preacher was state that he believe the only reason America hasn't been destroyed for it's wickedness as of yet is because of our support of Israel. America has been a haven for the Jew. Even in early colonial America Jews were accepted almost as soon as the founding of the colonies. In fact, not long after the first Baptist church in America was founded the first Jewish synagogue was erected not far from that Baptist church.

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3 hours ago, fastjav390 said:

If abortion is murder than will God avenge the blood of those innocents murdered? Seems like to me he just won't forget it and let it slide. If this is the case than nothing will turn America around. The nation has been delivered up to it's own lusts. I'm hoping this is not the case and Trump will at the least allow believers worship and serve God in peace and not attempt to force us to partake of their evil. This is what Obama was beginning to do.

Well, how many children did those of Israel murder at the hands of Moloch? But when the nation turned to Him, he forgave them. Even more so will he do now.  Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se. Of course, having wicked rulers doesn't help, because they tend to pass wicked laws and cause sin to be considered alright. Having a leader who turns the other way, turns the laws to righteousness and outlaws sin, now we go back to specifically dealing with individuals still insisting on sinning.

Trump can't change the minds of the people, but he can still do the right thing where he has power to do so.

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Also, let's remember that a nation's "greatness" (or lack thereof) may not necessarily mean that a particular nation is enjoying the blessings of God.

Rome was one of the most (if not the most) hedonistic, horrific, deviant, and idolatrous nations to ever have existed...yet, they were a "great" nation. They ruled the world for 500+ years, but I just don't believe they did so through the blessings of God. However, God used Rome to fulfill his purpose. Rome was a major player in the events surrounding Christ and the apostles...so he "allowed" them to be a "great" nation.

Can America be great again? Most certainly it can. What's one way for that to happen? For its rulers to follow biblical principles despite the sin that may be prevalent. We are into the beginning days of Trump's presidency, but I have hope that despite Trump's personal lack of biblical principles knowledge, he appears to be making some wise decisions that can be traced to biblical principles...which is a far cry from Obama's open and public ridicule and mockery of God's word; in which, he showed his own lack of understanding of God's word.

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Alan, just a personal thought that maybe a new thread for all the post election-inauguration comments? Maybe 1st 100 days?

Mike, agree God is in the forgiving business 2 Chron. 7:14.

I may have another perspective on this but just requesting clarification before I present any argument. I'm not sure what you mean in this one sentence.

16 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se.

 

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3 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Alan, just a personal thought that maybe a new thread for all the post election-inauguration comments? Maybe 1st 100 days?

Mike, agree God is in the forgiving business 2 Chron. 7:14.

I may have another perspective on this but just requesting clarification before I present any argument. I'm not sure what you mean in this one sentence.

 

"Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se."

The entire New testament is written and directed to churches and individuals, not to nations. The OT, we see God continually dealing tih entire nations: Israel, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, etc. Their national sin brought about national judgment, as we saw in the five cities of the plains, and many others.  The books were written with the nations in mind.

Today we don't see that-this is a time of grace, when God is calling individuals to salvation. WHile certainly God dealt with individuals, as well, in the OT, the books were written to nations, to cities, to peoples, while the time of faith and grace is God working with individuals unto salvation. God cried to all Israel to be saved-today He calls for me to be saved, for you to be saved, and for each person to be in obedience. It seems a lot more focused on persons, rather than peoples. Does that make sense?

I guess for some proof, outside of Israel some 2000 years ago, we haven't really seen God's wrath fall on any nations the way it fell on them in the Old Testament. Those cities were completely consumed, never again inhabited. I can't remember when God has judged a nation like that in the last many couple thousand years. or maybe I'm just missing something, because I think we can ALL think of some that sorely need it!

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1Timothy115,

I do not mind your thoughts at all. I have always enjoyed your perspective on the subjects that you have talked about.

I will say one thing though, do not be surprised if everything that President Trump does in his first 100 days is resisted every step of the way. Every wrong move, every slip of the tongue, every mistake he makes (whether intentional or intentional), will be brought forth, criticized, and repeated, and condemned, in an effort to destroy him and the agenda that he has for America.

Like the national News Media, and their extreme hatred for Trump, the folks against Trump will repeat his mistakes , supposed mistakes, as many times  as possible in order to people forget his good actions and to try and derail your thread. Like the News Media, they will berate his actions, call him a racist, call him unloving, and bring up all of the mistakes (and sins), that Trump has made in life in order to destroy his effectiveness.

If you do make such a thread, I will try and back you as much as possible.

Alan

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Have you ever sat in church and done this? I have many times. Is she full of the joy of the Lord? I can't say. But I can only imagine how overwhelming all of this must be to this precious lady. God bless the Trumps. I'm praying for them.

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4 hours ago, Alan said:

1Timothy115,

If you do make such a thread, I will try and back you as much as possible.

Alan

Nope, I don't want this thread derailed if that was your understanding. I would have supported a new thread from you with anything I found which might encourage further discussion. I don't want to start a thread.

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President Donald Trump is in the process of making America great by also making America safer.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil..." Romans 13:3  for those Americans who want to have good works, and live in a safe and prosperous nation, President Trump will be a blessing.

President Trump has signed an executive order in the vetting of the refugees coming from Muslim countries to America. This order will help America become great as she once was. The Obama administration did not vet the Muslims coming into America and his decision caused great harm to our country, caused our citizens to hate one another, created terrorist acts (the killing of Americans on American soil by Muslim extremists), and caused fear in the hearts of Americans. President Trump is making tangible orders to reverse the destructive leadership of Obama and the Democratic party.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/27/trump-signs-executive-order-for-extreme-vetting-refugees.html

May God continue to lead President Trump in his executive powers as he leads America.

Alan

 

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Ukulelemike said:

"Also, we have to remember that we are in a day that God deals with individuals, not nations, per se."

The entire New testament is written and directed to churches and individuals, not to nations. The OT, we see God continually dealing tih entire nations: Israel, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, etc. Their national sin brought about national judgment, as we saw in the five cities of the plains, and many others.  The books were written with the nations in mind.

Today we don't see that-this is a time of grace, when God is calling individuals to salvation. WHile certainly God dealt with individuals, as well, in the OT, the books were written to nations, to cities, to peoples, while the time of faith and grace is God working with individuals unto salvation. God cried to all Israel to be saved-today He calls for me to be saved, for you to be saved, and for each person to be in obedience. It seems a lot more focused on persons, rather than peoples. Does that make sense?

I guess for some proof, outside of Israel some 2000 years ago, we haven't really seen God's wrath fall on any nations the way it fell on them in the Old Testament. Those cities were completely consumed, never again inhabited. I can't remember when God has judged a nation like that in the last many couple thousand years. or maybe I'm just missing something, because I think we can ALL think of some that sorely need it!

I agree with much of what you say. Here are some thoughts I've pulled together after some time to reflect on this. I may have stumbled on a change of thought from, "our nation is less significant in God's plan and will than we might consider" to one even more grim.

I know much of what I will say is common knowledge but, bear with me, in presenting my thought. Why would God deal with nations today? I believe God opens doors to nations today where the gospel needs to be heard according to His will. I also believe nations are preparing and aligning themselves against Israel. This alignment is not God’s will but, he foresaw this and foretold it would occur. In Matthew 24:7 Jesus spoke of nations and kingdoms which would war against one another. I also believe individuals encourage, support, and elect governments for their individual needs, preferences, and personal motivations. These reasons could be Godly or sinfully rooted.

In the United States, we have “the blessings of liberty” which provide for our freedom to speak (type) freely within our 1st amendment. However, if our government of the people decided there would be no more freedom of religion, we Christians would suffer for the will of the majority. Yes, as individuals we would be no less saved; “all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.” I believe God allowed us to form this nation, “conceived in liberty.” Some say the framers, founders, were “non-Christian.” Some may not have been but, I believe fully that God held their hearts in His hand and moved them to create what we now call the United States. Now God sees us as a nation, a group of individuals controlling our direction to fulfill His will and His purpose. For all we know our purpose may be to show man that under the very best of man’s intentions we cannot avoid the pitfalls of fallen and sinful man to spoil. Even with ever increasing knowledge and self-confidence we corrupt our way and God’s gift. We just may be the last example of mankind’s inability to be self-directed.

I believe today, at least in the United States, God is dealing with our nation, or at least the hearts and minds of those who will hear His voice. I’m thankful, the current president has the aid of a vice-president like Mike Pence. So, yes I believe God deals with nations (groups of people forming a government).

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9 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

Here's an honest, factual criticism of Trump: the EOs he's signing are not constitutional. Yep, they seem to be great. But here's a newsflash: they are just as unconstitutional as the EOs that BO signed. Just because they contain some good things does not make them right. He is bypassing Congress in exactly the same way BO did, and he is being lauded for it by many conservatives and Christians who apparently don't care whether the POTUS actually keeps his inaugural pledge to uphold the Constitution. 

Doing wrong to do right is still wrong. Regardless of whether one is POTUS or garbage collector.

I'm not going to laud someone just because of the servant position they hold...

Actually, many of Trumps EO's are simply countermanding  and nullifying Obama's EO's. It takes an EO to undo one. If it wasn't a congressional law in the first place, you don't use congress to repeal it. An executive action and a law are two different things.

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Brethren,

Here is a link that looks into the legal aspect of Executive Orders as a reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

I did not primarily start this thread on trying to sort out the legal aspects of Executive Orders. My main thrust in this thread is to bring out the actions that President Trump is doing is to undo the damaging Executive Orders, regulations, laws, that the Obama administration executed.

It is my hope that the Congress and Senate, in the process of time, makes the Executive Orders that President Trump is issuing into legal, and permanent laws of the land, as HappyChristian is expressing. 

Either way, I firmly believe that the actions that President Trump is the first step in making our country great, and safe, again.  

Alan

 

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