Were old testament believers indwelt?

[swathdiver]

16 hours ago, Ronda said:

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

It seems to be regular pattern with you Hypers that when you get the context wrong and change the meaning of words you get simple things like this wrong as well.  Jesus was addressing the members of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.  Not individuals, but the members of his church.  Verse 26 refers to Pentecost, the day the church was commissioned.  You people make the simple confusing and complex.

16 hours ago, wretched said:

I appreciate your desperate searches but if you would just be honest with yourselves, and reread slowly what I said, you are just reinforcing my point. These verses you posted are not the same thing.

I am not desperate at all.  I have no illusions of my getting your mind right with scripture.  

Anyways, why choose you a powder measure for your avatar?  What kind of powder are you measuring out and in what size brass are the grains going into?

[wretched]

9 hours ago, swathdiver said:

It seems to be regular pattern with you Hypers that when you get the context wrong and change the meaning of words you get simple things like this wrong as well.  Jesus was addressing the members of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.  Not individuals, but the members of his church.  Verse 26 refers to Pentecost, the day the church was commissioned.  You people make the simple confusing and complex.

I am not desperate at all.  I have no illusions of my getting your mind right with scripture.  

Anyways, why choose you a powder measure for your avatar?  What kind of powder are you measuring out and in what size brass are the grains going into?

Well friend, you are at least perceptive enough to realize how far out of your depth you are in most of these threads.

BTW: the picture is one of my MEC 500 shotshell loaders, set up for 12 gauge, the charge bars are set for 7/8 oz shot over 14 grains of Clays.

thanks

[Jim_Alaska]

I am continually amazed at so-called Baptist people that come up with "off the wall" teaching concerning things that are basic Baptist teaching.

This thread is about "were old testament believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit?"

What I find amazing is that some posters here cannot tell the difference between the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are not the same.

When someone tries to use  John 14:16,  which contains the very words of Jesus, to try to teach that he was speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; it is utter nonsense. This verse is speaking about the empowering, or the authority given to His church, which was already organized and commissioned at this time.

This prophecy had its fulfilment starting in Acts 2:1. This is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which empowered the church, not individuals. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a one time occurrence (unless you are charismatic) Because there is and can be, only one Pentecost.  This then is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to every believer.

Numerous Scriptures have been given showing that the Holy Spirit was "in" OT believers. Scripture says what it means and means what it says.

Our Bible tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, nowhere does it say that TV preachers or any other medium is the pillar and ground of the truth. We are to get solid, scriptural teaching through our church, this is where God has chosen to put his Holy Spirit in His capacity as teacher:  John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Listening to every TV or radio preacher will never substitute for the teaching of the Holy Spirit through His church. The definite article "the" in "the pillar and ground of the truth", excludes there being any other pillar and ground of the truth.

 Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 
 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 

The more a person listens to different preachers, having differing opinions on Scripture, the more confused and misled they will become. This is patently obvious just from this one thread alone.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Jim_Alaska
spelling

[swathdiver]

14 hours ago, wretched said:

BTW: the picture is one of my MEC 500 shotshell loaders, set up for 12 gauge, the charge bars are set for 7/8 oz shot over 14 grains of Clays.

I load my doublegun from powder and shot flasks and my pouch.  

[John81]

10 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I am continually amazed at so-called Baptist people that come up with "off the wall" teaching concerning things that are basic Baptist teaching.

This thread is about "were old testament believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit?"

What I find amazing is that some posters here cannot tell the difference between the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are not the same.

When someone tries to use  John 14:16,  which contains the very words of Jesus, to try to teach that he was speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; it is utter nonsense. This verse is speaking about the empowering, or the authority given to His church, which was already organized and commissioned at this time.

This prophecy had its fulfilment starting in Acts 2:1. This is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which empowered the church, not individuals. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a one time occurrence (unless you are charismatic) Because there is and can be, only one Pentecost.  This then is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to every believer.

Numerous Scriptures have been given showing that the Holy Spirit was "in" OT believers. Scripture says what it means and means what it says.

Our Bible tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, nowhere does it say that TV preachers or any other medium is the pillar and ground of the truth. We are to get solid, scriptural teaching through our church, this is where God has chosen to put his Holy Spirit in His capacity as teacher:  John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Listening to every TV or radio preacher will never substitute for the teaching of the Holy Spirit through His church. The definite article "the" in "the pillar and ground of the truth", excludes there being any other pillar and ground of the truth.

 Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 
 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 

The more a person listens to different preachers, having differing opinions on Scripture, the more confused and misled they will become. This is patently obvious just from this one thread alone.

Considering there are those here promoting false gospels on many different threads it's little wonder there is also confusion with regards to the Holy Ghost.

Scripture is clear upon the matter of salvation as well as the Holy Ghost and yet false and heretical promotion of different means of salvation are put forth at will. When confronted some decide to try and divert attention by bringing up the idea of the saved being able to lose their salvation. In this they attempt to tie their false gospel into their views on the Holy Ghost and their belief that all or some born again folks can lose their salvation. Exceedingly dangerous heresy.

[wretched]

5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I load my doublegun from powder and shot flasks and my pouch.  

Blackpowder is fun to shoot and watch but no so fun to clean .

[swathdiver]

1 hour ago, wretched said:

Blackpowder is fun to shoot and watch but no so fun to clean

Cleaning is just another aspect of enjoying them.  Don't mind the cleaning at all.

[wretched]

 

3 hours ago, John81 said:

Considering there are those here promoting false gospels on many different threads it's little wonder there is also confusion with regards to the Holy Ghost.

Scripture is clear upon the matter of salvation as well as the Holy Ghost and yet false and heretical promotion of different means of salvation are put forth at will. When confronted some decide to try and divert attention by bringing up the idea of the saved being able to lose their salvation. In this they attempt to tie their false gospel into their views on the Holy Ghost and their belief that all or some born again folks can lose their salvation. Exceedingly dangerous heresy.

 

14 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I am continually amazed at so-called Baptist people that come up with "off the wall" teaching concerning things that are basic Baptist teaching.

This thread is about "were old testament believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit?"

What I find amazing is that some posters here cannot tell the difference between the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They are not the same.

When someone tries to use  John 14:16,  which contains the very words of Jesus, to try to teach that he was speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; it is utter nonsense. This verse is speaking about the empowering, or the authority given to His church, which was already organized and commissioned at this time.

This prophecy had its fulfilment starting in Acts 2:1. This is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which empowered the church, not individuals. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a one time occurrence (unless you are charismatic) Because there is and can be, only one Pentecost.  This then is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to every believer.

Numerous Scriptures have been given showing that the Holy Spirit was "in" OT believers. Scripture says what it means and means what it says.

Our Bible tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, nowhere does it say that TV preachers or any other medium is the pillar and ground of the truth. We are to get solid, scriptural teaching through our church, this is where God has chosen to put his Holy Spirit in His capacity as teacher:  John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Listening to every TV or radio preacher will never substitute for the teaching of the Holy Spirit through His church. The definite article "the" in "the pillar and ground of the truth", excludes there being any other pillar and ground of the truth.

 Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 
 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 

The more a person listens to different preachers, having differing opinions on Scripture, the more confused and misled they will become. This is patently obvious just from this one thread alone.

 

Gents, although well intentioned, you are wrong on this. Had the Gospel of regeneration existed prior to Christ's death, then our Lord died in vain. And this is exactly what you folks are claiming.

Your view is factually a false Gospel.

Only heart felt faith has ever pleased God but that faith always produced works for God in the OT. In the OT, that faith was initiated and continued by sight. In the NT, that faith is rewarded by the regenerating, renewing, indwelling and securing of the Spirit. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.

No matter who tells you the verses quoted in this thread mean indwelling of the Spirit and eternal security by being sealed until the day of redemption, they are wrong in literal verbiage and in context and miss the major difference in how God dealt with man from the OT to the NT.

Call people heretics all you want but the fact is you are making yourselves one by continuing this insistence of doctrine that does not exist except in the itching ears of lazy preachers.

[Jim_Alaska]

59 minutes ago, wretched said:

Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.

Your own reference betrays you wretched. This is looking forward in time, just like the OT believers looked forward to Christ's death and resurrection for salvation. God is God, do you really believe that God, the Holy Spirit could not indwell believers in the OT, just as He does now? If you do then that kind of limits God doesn't it? God is God and he does not change, it was the same way for OT saints as it is for NT saints, no matter how you cut it.

To limit God in any way and say there is something that He cannot do it heresy! His plan for man's salvation has always been the same; salvation by faith followed by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit.

[wretched]

37 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Your own reference betrays you wretched. This is looking forward in time, just like the OT believers looked forward to Christ's death and resurrection for salvation. God is God, do you really believe that God, the Holy Spirit could not indwell believers in the OT, just as He does now? If you do then that kind of limits God doesn't it? God is God and he does not change, it was the same way for OT saints as it is for NT saints, no matter how you cut it.

To limit God in any way and say there is something that He cannot do it heresy! His plan for man's salvation has always been the same; salvation by faith followed by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit.

No Jim, this is your own limiting of God's ways to match your own inability to understand Scripture. You have it in reverse my friend.

God's ways are not yours so I recommend you stop trying to place His plans and Record into a little man made box to make your understanding easier.

Tell you what though, you may win the argument and have it your way.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

How does one reconcile Exodus 31:3 with John 7:39?

 

Exodus 31 does say one was filled with the Spirit of God, while John, written more than 1500 years later, states that the Holy Ghost was not yet given.

 

Based on Exodus 31:3, I believe one could be indwelt by the Holy Ghost.  Albeit, it was only a 'temporary' indwelling.  It was not the 'permanent' indwelling that Believers post-cross would experience.  The Spirit came and went.  It was not yet given.

 

The Spirit is only given to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ and have been cleansed by His blood.

[Jim_Alaska]

1 hour ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

How does one reconcile Exodus 31:3 with John 7:39?

Exodus 31 does say one was filled with the Spirit of God, while John, written more than 1500 years later, states that the Holy Ghost was not yet given.

Based on Exodus 31:3, I believe one could be indwelt by the Holy Ghost.  Albeit, it was only a 'temporary' indwelling.  It was not the 'permanent' indwelling that Believers post-cross would experience.  The Spirit came and went.  It was not yet given.

The Spirit is only given to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ and have been cleansed by His blood.

SFIC, there is no need to reconcile the two Scriptures because they are talking about two different things.

In Exodus the Scripture is speaking about a "special" filling of one man for a "specific purpose." That purpose is plainly stated as, "wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, " This is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to a salvation experience. It was to enable Bezaleel to accomplish the work of building things for the Tabernacle.

John 7:39 Is a reference to the Holy Spirit not being given to the church as of that time. This was when the Holy Spirit was given to the existing church to empower, or authorize it. Before that time the Holy Spirit was not given in church capacity. This is what the events on the day of Pentecost were all about; the empowering of His church.

Just because there are Scriptures that say that the Holy Spirit was given, or came upon people does not automatically make this an indwelling as we understand it in the salvation experience of a person.

Indwelling and empowering are two totally different things. Indwelling means that the Holy Spirit takes up residence inside of the believer. It is permanent.

Empowering means that the Holy Spirit gives a person or people the power to accomplish what he wants them to do. This is temporary.

[Ronda]

23 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

This is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which empowered the church, not individuals. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a one time occurrence (unless you are charismatic) Because there is and can be, only one Pentecost.  This then is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it pertains to every believer.

Brother "Jim_Alaska", I want to say this as respetfully as I can, but let me just say what popped into my head as soon as I got done reading your post:
"Whoa, Nellie... we've got horses running down 2 lanes here...slow down and reign them in, so I can see where these horses came from!"

So now you are stating there are 2 Holy Spirits???
One that "baptizes" a group (the church)???
and one that "indwells" individuals???
Is this not the same Holy Spirit?
Or is this the SAME Holy Spirit, Yet you're stating that it happens at different times (the Baptism of the Holy spirit and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit)? Forgive my confusion... but you have indeed confused me on what exactly you believe.

I sure am not a charismatic, so let's throw that nonsense out the window for a minute...
I'm not the one talking about 2 different Holy Spirit here... Are you??? Before you get mad at me for saying that... I gotta say, I have some questions.

First, let me tell you what I understand and believe (yes, you can ridicule and pick it apart if you'd like, but I will say it anyways) at least let me know which part you are picking apart!

I believe I received the Holy Spirit the very MOMENT I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior (by grace through faith).(all of Romans 8)
I was baptized into the BODY OF CHRIST by that SAME Holy Spirit that very same moment. (1 Cor. 12:12-14)
I believe that same Holy Spirit indwelt me from that moment on... (Eph. 1:13)
And I can never lose this indwelling because by this SAME Holy Spirit that indwells me also seals me unto the day of redemption.(Eph. 4:30)

As a side note: I happened to be a member "IN GOOD STANDING" of an IFB church prior to, and on the very day I accepted Christ... and received both the INDWELLING and BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit all at the same moment in time.
As another side note: I was baptized (full immersion baptism) by the pastor of that very same IFB church I was a member "in good standing" of, and was water bapized, but it was about 5 years AFTER I accepted Christ. I do NOT believe that THAT was when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, as I had already been baptized with the Holy Spirit the moment I accepted Christ.
And as a final side note: I was taught this at the same IFB church I was a member of and was later water baptized at... But I don't believe it because I was taught it.. I believe it because scripture supports it (the same scripture I quoted above) for this dispensation (the age of grace) in which we all now reside.
So all OT controversy aside... we are dealing with (for the moment) how believer's receive the Holy Spirit (both indwelling AND baptism of) RIGHT NOW... and then I will happily resume the original discussion of OT believer's. But before I can even attempt to discuss OT believer's in respect to he Holy Spirit... I'd like to know just where you stand on THIS time period, the age of grace.

And before you attempt to tear me to shreds because the IFB church I attended didn't teach the same thing yours may, please let me say I need for you to answer some questions so I can figure out exactly what it IS you think all IFB churches should be teaching in regard to the Holy Spirit, because I do have to say I do not believe that all IFB (and I don't just mean the IFB I attended either) are teaching on the Holy Spirit the same way you are presenting it.
But before I can even say that... I need you to answer some easy questions for me so I will have a better understanding of exactly what you are saying, please.
Sometimes I think people think we can read their minds... and just assume we'd know what they were talking about before they even fully talked about it... so let's put in in lay-man's terms here, since at the beginning I said "Whoa, Nellie"... because I think Nellie the horse bucked me off in the pumpkin patch when I read your post.. (so to speak). So let's break it down into layman's terms, please.

Please be patient, and I am not ridiculing you... I just need some clarification here...
In YOUR opinion I would like to know:

Question #1:
Let's say Jane Doe accepted Christ as savior, and Jane wasn't a member of any church of any kind...
    A.  Did Jane receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the moment she accepted Christ?
    B.  Did Jane receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment she accepted Christ?

C. Did Jane receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment she was (fully immersed) water baptized?

D. Did Jane receive the Holy Spirit the moment she became a member of a specific church?

Question #2:

Let's say John Doe accepted Christ as savior, and John was a member of a church (other than IFB Baptist... let's say Methodist or Southern Baptist... and for the sake of argument, let's say both of those churches (Methodist or Southern Baptist) were the traditional style, non-contemporary (for example no female pastors, no LGBT members, etc)
    A. Did John receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the moment he accepted Christ?
    B. Did John receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment he accepted Christ?

C. C. Did John receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment he was (fully immersed) water baptized?

Question #3:
Let's say Jerry Doe accepted Christ as savior, and Jerry was a member of an Independent Fundamental Baptist church...
    A. Did Jerry receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the moment he accepted Christ?
    B. Did Jerry receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment he accepted Christ?

C. C. Did Jerry receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit the moment he was (fully immersed) water baptized?

I know these questions might look stupid to you... but I am very interested to know your answers...
I think I know how you MIGHT answer them, but I am not going to ASSUME anything here.
Once again, I am NOT ridiculing you... I am just not positive exactly what you believe and would like clarification.
If you would please answer my silly scenario questions above, it would help me understand. Thank you kindly.

Scriptural reference for my belief:

1 Cor. 12:12 "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ."
 13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
 14 "For the body is not one member, but many."

Ephesians 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
 14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

2 Cor. 1:21 "Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;"
 22 "Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

Eph. 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

*** I was going to quote from Romans 8 as well, but would have had to quote the entire chapter... consider it quoted as well.
 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Ronda
added question(s) "C" out of concern/curiosity

[Pastor Scott Markle]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 2:29 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

Were old testament believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit?

why or why not?

give me solid scripture

To post, or not to post -- That is the question.  Brother Kurecki, when you first posted this, I had a desire to present my answer; however, I did not have the time to provide a complete answer.  Nor have I had the time until the present.  Yet I see that the thread has certainly reached a "pot stirred" character.  So then, I have pondered and prayed whether I should, or should not add my thoughts and likely "stir the pot" all the more.  Well, here is my "two cents" on the matter --

First, I would contend that we need to understand the difference in the reality and character between Holy Spirit indwelling and Holy Spirit infilling.  By definition both indwelling and infilling speak concerning an "inside" work of the Holy Spirit.  When we consider the work of dwelling, we consider a dwelling in some place.  Also when we consider the work of filling, we consider a filling up of something through pouring something in unto the full.  Yet although the reality of both indwelling and infilling involves an "inside" work of the Holy Spirit, there is a difference between the character of the indwelling and infilling.  Whereas the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit has a permanent, "always continuous," "for ever" character; the infilling work of the Holy Spirit has a "moment-by-moment," "in-and-out," repeatable character.  Even so, the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit begins for the believer at the very moment of faith in Christ for salvation, and continues forever without any break.  However, the infilling work of the Holy Spirit occurs "moment-by-moment" for the believer only as the believer yields unto the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit.

Second, I would contend that while the infilling work of the Holy Spirit did indeed exist for Old Testament believers, the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit did not.  Furthermore, I would contend that New Testament believers alone have the privilege to experience both the indwelling work and the infilling work of the Holy Spirit.  Concerning the infilling work of the Holy Spirit for both Old and New Testament believers, we are able to find passages that specifically refer to the filling of the Holy Spirit both in the Old Testament and the New Testament.  Concerning the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit only for New Testament believers, I would submit John 14:16-17 -- "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."  In this passage our Lord Jesus Christ spoke concerning a present (at the moment wherein He was speaking) work of the Holy Spirit and a future (from the moment wherein He was speaking) work of the Holy Spirit.  He revealed the present work with the following statement -- "For he dwelleth [presen tense] with you."  He revealed the future work with the following statement -- "And shall be [future tense] in you."  Even so, this future (from the moment wherein the Lord was speaking) work of the Holy Spirit was not simply that the Holy Spirit would dwell with the disciples, but that He would dwell in the disciples.  Furthermore, in this passage our Lord Jesus Christ indicated the future timing wherein this work of "dwelling in" would occur -- "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter."  Finally, in this passage our Lord Jesus indicated that this future work of "dwelling in" by the Holy Spirit would be a "for ever" work -- "And he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever."  So then, the "for ever" work of "dwelling in" by the Holy Spirit would not begin until sometime after the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended into heaven.

Third, I would contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit, while having a different focus in purpose, is directly unified with the very first moment of the indwelling work by the Holy Spirit at the very moment of a believer's faith in Christ for salvation.  Indeed, I might even contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the very work of the Lord Jesus Christ whereby the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is initiated.  In his preaching John the Baptist declared the One coming after him (that is -- the Lord Jesus Christ) would baptize believers "with the Holy Ghost." (See Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16)  In Acts 1:4-5 our Lord Jesus Christ revealed unto His disciples that this baptism with the Holy Spirit would occur "not many days hence" from the time wherein He was speaking -- "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.  For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."  The fulfillment of this would then appear to be that which occurred on the Day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2.  Yet was this baptism with the Holy Spirit a one time event?  I would contend that it was not, for in Acts 11:16 the apostle Peter explained the giving of the gift of the Holy Spirit unto the Gentiles by employing the very teaching of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.  Furthermore, in 1 Corinthians 12:12 the apostle Paul spoke concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit for the sake of every New Testament believer, and further indicated that this baptism was joined with a partaking of ("made to drink into") the Holy Spirit (which I believe is a reference unto the "for ever" work of "dwelling in" by the Holy Spirit).

Fourth, I would contend that the infilling work of the Holy Spirit for Old Testament believers is one of various evidences that Old Testament believers were indeed regenerated ("born again") spiritually.  Indeed, I would contend for the truth that it is spiritually impossible for God the Holy Spirit to infill an unregenerate individual, who is yet spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins."  Even so, I would contend that we should maintain a distinction in our understanding between the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit.

I do pray that these thoughts will be of some help in the discussion, and will not add too much more "fuel to the fire."

[Jim_Alaska]

Sister Ronda,

Thank you for your well thought out and presented post. I would be happy to answer your questions and try to clarify any confusion I may have caused. I would ask that I might have some time to answer your questions in the order you presented them and with better clarity. I ask for time for personal reasons that pertain to time constraints on my part in regard to the very recent loss of three family members that require my attention to "end of life" issues.

I do understand why you may be confused by what I wrote simply because my statements were a very condensed version of a very big subject that should really be part of an extended study, rather than a simple post on a message forum.

Thank you for your understanding and patience as well as your manner of asking for clarification rather than trying to flame my post and me.

God bless you as you serve Him.