Eve's Transgression?

[No Nicolaitans]

First, let me apologize for keeping this short. I'll not be quoting any scripture because of time constraints at the moment, and I hope I can explain quickly what I was wondering about.

Second...I've been thinking...    

I've often hear it preached (and I've preached it myself) that Eve twisted God's word by adding "neither should they touch" the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now, at the least, if God didn't say that, that would be lying...and therefore, it would have been a sin. Eve was deceived and in the transgression, but the Bible plainly states that sin entered because of Adam's sin.

We don't have every recorded word that God told them, so it is possible that God told them not to touch it also? Did Eve lie, or did her transgression happen only after all that the serpent told her?

Or, am I over-analyzing?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

• I have always believed that God told either Adam, or Eve, or both... Not to eat of the tree or even to touch it.

Wherefore, by one man's disobedience sin entered.  One man.  The sin was not until Adam disobeyed.  Yes, Eve ate first.  However the eyes of both were opened after they had both ate.

[Rosie]

when a man and woman marry they become one.. I feel thats what is meant here

[robmac68]

God told Adam in chapter 2 not to eat it.  In chapter 3 Eve says she was told not to touch it also.  Maybe Adam told his wife that he didn't even want her to touch it let alone eat it.  Anyway, how ever it went down, I still blame Adam.  When Eve ate she "gave also unto her husband with her" 3:6 it sounds like Adam was with Eve while the serpent was talking with her and Adam never should have allowed that. He was supposed to protect her.

edit:  thanks SFIC and Rosie, your replies were very thought provoking for me.  

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by robmac68

[Ukulelemike]

As far as scripture tells us, and beyond is only speculation, we know that God told Adam not to eat of the tree. However, we know, since his job was to tend to the garden, it would have had to extend to this tree, hence he would have to touch it from time to time. From here, all we can assume is that God told Adam, Adam told Eve. Perhaps, as was said above, she was told to stay away from it and he would tend to it, so this is the word she got-her disobedience was to her husband-wrong but not a sin, while Adam, following her into it, sinned, being the one told directly by God, thus, HE sinned.

[Salyan]

Whether Eve lied or not, she did technically sin first when she 'did eat' - which, whether she was deceived or not, was direct disobedience. Right? 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Adam was put in the garden "to dress it".  However, if God did not want that particular tree touched at all, He Himself would have seen to its care, I would think.

 

bottom line, man disobeyed God.

[No Nicolaitans]

Okay...what I'm getting at is this...

If (as is commonly taught) Eve twisted God's word, that would be a sin (lying). She did say that God said for them not to touch it. Even if Adam is the one who told her not to touch it, she still attributes that command as coming from God; therefore, I can only assume that if she heard it from Adam, he must have told her that the command came from God. However, if she was truthful, it wasn't lying or sin.

The Bible does say that she was deceived and in the transgression (violation).

If she lied by saying that God said something that he didn't say, then that puts sin before the fall (the eating of the fruit). As I read the account in Genesis 3, the serpent's actual deception didn't start until AFTER Eve said they shouldn't eat or touch the fruit.

Am I still over-analyzing? 

Edited to add: by putting what I did in bold letters, I was just emphasizing...not yelling at anyone.

Edited June 23, 2015 by No Nicolaitans

[TheSword]

Maybe this timeline will help with some analysis?

Gen 2:15 - God puts Adam in the Garden to dress it (serve in/labor) and keep it (keep/guard/observe)

Gen 2:17 - God tells Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

Gen 2:21-25 - God creates Eve

Gen 3:1 - The serpent asks if God told them not to eat of every tree

Gen 3:2-3 - Eve says they can eat of every tree except the one and adds the requirement not to touch

At this point, there are 3 possibilities (as mentioned by several people above):

1. God reiterated and expounded on the command after Eve was created
2. Adam passed on the command and added that Eve shouldn't touch it. Eve relayed the command as she heard it.
3. God reiterated or Adam passed on the original command without addition. Eve added the requirement when talking to the serpent.

Gen 3:6 - Eve takes the fruit, eat is, and gives it to Adam who also eats it.

The verse suggests that Adam was there during the encounter and he did not correct her. It is also one long sentence that lists events but does not necessarily specify time order. the entire phrase "with her; and he did eat" is actually one Hebrew word. I suppose then, it is also possible that they ate simultaneously.

Anything we come up with is obviously speculation, but it stands to reason that Eve making up the new rule not to touch on the fly is unlikely given Adam's lack of intervention or correction. Therefore, either God added or Adam added it, which means Eve did not knowingly twist God's Word. That would put the responsibility back on Adam then wouldn't it?

 

[No Nicolaitans]

Well said Sword. You articulated my point better than I did. As far back as I can remember, I've never heard anyone teach or preach anything other than Eve twisted God's word and added to it. Which, after I thought about it...would put sin as happening before the Bible teaches that sin happened. I can't recall ever hearing anyone teach or preach that Eve didn't twist and add to God's word.

It's obvious from others in this thread that there are people who accept and believe the latter though.

I realize that it's still speculative to a point, but I think the Bible's "sin timeline" aids in giving credence to Eve not lying by twisting and adding to God's word.

 

[Ukulelemike]

Unless you hold to the Gap theory, in which case, Satan's sin brought death, not Adam's, despite clear scripture to the contrary. Sorry, just stirring the pot a little.

[TheSword]

Unless you hold to the Gap theory, in which case, Satan's sin brought death, not Adam's, despite clear scripture to the contrary. Sorry, just stirring the pot a little.

 ooooh boy...

[No Nicolaitans]

Unless you hold to the Gap theory, in which case, Satan's sin brought death, not Adam's, despite clear scripture to the contrary. Sorry, just stirring the pot a little.

 ooooh boy...

What? So you both deny the Gap? I can prove from God's word that the gap is true...

Ezekiel 22:30
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

 

 

[TheSword]

 

 

What? So you both deny the Gap? I can prove from God's word that the gap is true...

Ezekiel 22:30
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

 

 

  

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Just my "two cents."

I myself have never believed that Eve misrepresented God's Word on the matter.  If she had, then this falsehood would have been the first sin of humanity; and it would have been a sin of willful falsehood, not of deceived transgression (as 1 Timothy 2:14 reports concerning Eve's part "in the transgression").  

Now, the timeline of the creations, commandment, and temptation has been given already, as follows:

1.  The Lord God created Adam.
2.  The Lord God commanded Adam not to eat of the forbidden tree.
3.  The Lord God created Adam's wife, Eve.
4.  The Serpent, the Devil, tempted and deceived Eve.

However, I wish to bring forward a grammatical element in relation to this timeline, as follows:

1.  In Genesis 2:17 the Lord God delivered His commandment unto Adam, saying, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Herein the Lord God employed the pronoun "thou" three times.  This pronoun is a singular pronoun; therefore, in delivering this command the Lord God was only speaking to a single individual.  Even so, this would be appropriate in the context since Adam's wife Eve had not yet been created, such that the Lord God was indeed only speaking to Adam himself.  

2.  In Genesis 3:3 Eve delivered her report of the Lord God's command, saying, "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."  Herein Eve employed the pronoun "ye" three times.  This pronoun is a plural pronoun, indicating a command that was delivered by the Lord God Himself (as per the phrase, "God hath said") unto more than one person.  Since there is no indication within this context or within the Lord God's rebuke against Eve that she had falsely misrepresented God, and since there is no indication in 1 Timothy 2:13-15 that Eve had transgressed by speaking falsely, I would contend in accord with the plural pronouns that Eve employed that the Lord God reiterated His command unto Adam and Eve as a group sometime after Eve was created.  Furthermore, I would contend that Eve reported the Lord God's command with perfect accuracy.

Some thoughts to consider -- Did "the voice of the LORD God" regularly meet and walk with Adam and Eve "in the cool of the day"?  If He did, then there is a significant amount of communication between them that is not recorded in the Scriptures.  As such, is it likely that Eve was directly quoting out of that unrecorded communication?