"'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Sounds like a rendering issue. Make sure your computer and browser is completely up to date. Also the crome browser is the best.

​That post read fine.

At times this will happen when you copy and paste your text. What you copied it from may have had a "table" in it and the forum may not recognize it as a table. Those who have done any web design will know what I mean. Many times different computers and browsers will "see" things differently than others..

​I think that is probably the issue.

[John Young]

I tried to get rid of some of the copied formatting that may have been causing the problem in the post. Does it appear properly now?

Edited April 2, 2015 by John Young

[Covenanter]

Back to the OP ....

At this point many out of concern will perhaps wish to present a step we must keep in mind or risk leading a sinner down a wrong path. Remove that link to head knowledge and let Christ work in the man's heart. Lift up Christ and let Him worry about the steps and you might be surprised that a few extra lost people find the narrow way into heaven without all our extra steps and sign post.

We need to learn that: People "being saved" require a process and teachers but people which are saved required only a Saviour.

Salvation requires a process - knowledge & conviction of sin, repentance, realisation that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sin, & prayerful acceptance of him as Lord & Saviour. It is just not a simple once-for-all "Say this salvation prayer." Though it could appear to be. And it must include a commitment to a changed life, walking humbly with our Saviour-God.

Whatever the process that leads to salvation - & I've heard & read some highly involved testimonies - salvation is a simple faith in the our Lord Jesus Christ as both Lord & Saviour, & a committed walk with him.  

We all have different "steps" in our testimonies, but there is no required formula, no missing steps, as long as the resultant present experience is that living relationship with our Saviour-God evident by our walk with him. 

 

[Alimantado]

I tried to get rid of some of the copied formatting that may have been causing the problem in the post. Does it appear properly now?

​Still the same. To remove formatting, just copy and paste it into notepad and then back into the post again. Here it is for folk who can't see it:

"Oops, I missed a step" Salvation.

Romans 8:26-29 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I was saved at the age of five. To be honest I do not remember a time that I did not believe Christ paid the price of my redemption through His Blood. (Having Godly Missionary parents, and learning to read from the Bible tends to have that effect.) So to be more accurate; At the age of five I made my profession known. And then at the age of 16, I confirmed that faith by being baptized at Gilead Baptist Church in Owosso, MI.

We are to make sure our salvation:

Philippians 2:11-13  and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.12 Wherefore,my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and todo of his good pleasure.

I bring this up to tell you that the greatest question I had as a child and as a young man was "Did I miss a step?" This question never came about from an unbelief in Christ or the Bible but from a strong desire to do all that I could to follow as closely as possible God's words for my "salvation".

Now as every Bible Believing Christian knows it is the faith in Christ work which saves us and this salvation is free. The problem though is the "application process" or a set of requirements in order to "qualify" your faith. "Things you must do before this "event" that show you are truly "accepting" salvation "correctly" and things you must do after the event to "prove" you have been "saved". (Sounds harder then doing my taxes in order to get money that is already mine!)

Also, each process is fully backed up by random verses which promote their process with a additional caveat that if you ascribe to any other model then you are not correct and are now bound for Hell! If their model is not popular among other Christians they will add the fact that Christ said "few there be that find it".

Matthew 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.15 Beware of false prophets,which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

On one small point I appreciate the Catholics because they are honest and say it is all part of a "process of salvation" but for many Baptist (because they play gymnastics with words and separate the process in our minds) will pay lip service to "faith in Christ alone" but then doubt a person's salvation if they failed to complete a "process of sanctification" to which many unconsciously ascribe and link to saving faith.

Some Christian Jews had this problem in:

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses,ye cannot be saved.

Many say some things are needed before true faith can "become available" Some say a various level of repentance or sorriness for your past sins is needed before salvation. Another relies on various levels of hearers knowledge or the presenters accurately voicing the truth; they have to understand the events correctly as presented in the correct bible (1611 KJAV Pure Cambridge Edition only for English speakers or it won't work).

Now we come to the "Free Gift" hopefully you chose the correct "pre-approval process. At this point you have three options (but be careful because if you chose wrong you don't understand salvation and will have to start over or go to Hell!)1. "Ask for salvation" by prayer. 2. Just acknowledge Christ work but don't say anything or it proves you do not believe Romans 3:19. 3. Be baptized by immersion before believers to show your belief.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Now you are saved but you we're not really saved you did not give God Lordship authority or do not do these following things in six months/rest of your life or when we all discover a mistake in our model.

By this time you understand what I'm getting at through my exaggerated examples and may even ascribe to a milder form of one or two points my intent is not to prove or disprove anything but to also share the model I used for salvation. Look. Believe. Follow. Simple desire of the heart words.

John 1:33-37 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

What I learned as a young man is that while information, knowledge, physical actions, etc can help me better understand Christ redemptive work and to grow in faith and wisdom, there are no steps, no process, no "things" I can do to pre-approve myself mentally or verbally.

Ultimately Salvation is a matter of the Spirit and must be performed through the hearing the Spirit’s call and not from some steps,formula or process. These things will merely amplify what the Spirit has already done in my heart. The Spirit gives the birth and I merely cry Aba! Father! (Galatians 4:6)

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Genesis 4:26c then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [from the heart's true desire] shall be saved.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 11:15-17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 For as much then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

At this point many out of concern will perhaps wish to present a step we must keep in mind or risk leading a sinner down a wrong path. Remove that link to head knowledge and let Christ work in the man's heart. Lift up Christ and let Him worry about the steps and you might be surprised that a few extra lost people find the narrow way into heaven without all our extra steps and sign post.

We need to learn that: People "being saved" require a process and teachers but people which are saved required only a Saviour.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; [not head] and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

[Genevanpreacher]

Acts 8 -

³⁶ And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

³⁷And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 16:31 says -

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

I see no where in scripture, that men call upon the name of the Lord to get saved.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[Genevanpreacher]

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

​Now show a verse where a person did this to get saved.

It doesn't exist.

Romans 10:13 says, and I quote here, "shall be saved" not "will get saved".

Only one who already is saved will call on the name of the Lord.

Salvation occurs back in verses -

⁹ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

¹⁰ For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

And it says after your 'calling on the name of the Lord to get saved' version -

 

¹⁴ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[DaveW]

You may have to try explaining that again GP - from here it looks like you twisting.......

Unless I miss your meaning?

Scripture seems to say what it says, not what you say it says.

[John Young]

True belief saves but also causes you to cry out. The two go hand in glove because some people will believe but not enough to call out to him or confess his name to others. Your faith which God is looking for cannot be just one of silent consent but must be the type which causes you to act.

John 12:42-43 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.  But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.  For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Edited April 4, 2015 by John Young

[Genevanpreacher]

You may have to try explaining that again GP - from here it looks like you twisting.......

Unless I miss your meaning?

Scripture seems to say what it says, not what you say it says.

​That is just because people may be believing a tradition rather than the clearly written words here.

The 'common' tradition is - when men call upon the name of the Lord they get saved; and the scriptures teach clearly that it is 'believing with all your heart' that gets one saved. The result of that 'believing with all your heart' being a 'relationship' between God and man, is that 'communication' flows between the two.

Calling upon the name of the Lord down through biblical history has always been prayer.

And always been by those who believed in the Lord, pre-Christ and during the 'human-birthed' life of Christ, for Jesus Christ was God before his physical body.

Maybe that was a little more clear?

[OLD fashioned preacher]

 

shall

 (shăl)

aux.v.

1. Used before a verb in the infinitive to show:

a. Something that will take place or exist in the future: We shall arrive tomorrow.

b. An order, promise, requirement, or obligation: You shall leave now. He shall answer for his misdeeds. The penalty shall not exceed two years in prison.

c. Something that is inevitable: That day shall come.

---

[Middle English schal, from Old English sceal; see skel- in Indo-European roots.]

Usage Note: The traditional rules for using shall and will prescribe a highly complicated pattern of use in which the meanings of the forms change according to the person of the subject. In the first person, shall is used to indicate simple futurity: I shall (not will) have to buy another ticket. In the second and third persons, the same sense of futurity is expressed by will: The comet will (not shall) return in 87 years. You will (not shall) probably encounter some heavy seas when you round the point. The use of will in the first person and of shall in the second and third may express determination, promise, obligation, or permission, depending on the context. Thus I will leave tomorrow indicates that the speaker is determined to leave; You and she shall leave tomorrow is likely to be interpreted as a command. The sentence You shall have your money expresses a promise ("I will see that you get your money"), whereas You will have your money makes a simple prediction. Such, at least, are the traditional rules. The English and some traditionalists about usage are probably the only people who follow these rules and then not with perfect consistency. In America, people who try to adhere to them run the risk of sounding pretentious or haughty. Americans normally use will to express most of the senses reserved for shall in English usage. Americans use shall chiefly in first person invitations and questions that request an opinion or agreement, such as Shall we go? and in certain fixed expressions, such as We shall overcome. In formal style, Americans use shall to express an explicit obligation, as in Applicants shall provide a proof of residence, though this sense is also expressed by must or should. In speech the distinction that the English signal by the choice of shall or will may be rendered by stressing the auxiliary, as in I will leave tomorrow ("I intend to leave"); by choosing another auxiliary, such as must or have to; or by using an adverb such as certainly. · In addition to its sense of obligation, shall can also convey high moral seriousness that derives in part from its extensive use in the King James Bible, as in "Righteousness shall go before him and shall set us in the way of his steps" (Ps 85:13) and "He that shall humble himself shall be exalted" (Mt 23:12). The prophetic overtones that shall bears with it have no doubt led to its use in some of the loftiest rhetoric in English. This may be why Lincoln chose to use it instead of will in the Gettysburg Address: "government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth." See Usage Note at should.

[Genevanpreacher]

 

shall

 (shăl)

aux.v.

1. Used before a verb in the infinitive to show:

a. Something that will take place or exist in the future: We shall arrive tomorrow.

b. An order, promise, requirement, or obligation: You shall leave now. He shall answer for his misdeeds. The penalty shall not exceed two years in prison.

c. Something that is inevitable: That day shall come.

​You do realize that grammar rules in English are as stable as a termite in a yo-yo?

And have changed over and over, century after century. Our 'modern' English language grammar is only from the mid-1700's.

The KJB is not set up 'grammatically', and Noah Webster 'corrected' it and we have the 'Webster Bible' to prove it. But it didn't need correcting.

We just need to understand the text for what it says, and you can't have 2 different ways to get saved. And you do when you tell someone they need to ask Jesus to save them in a prayer. Nobody in the scriptures did that.

Unless the Lord has showed someone something he didn't want the rest of us seeing.

So irregardless of someone's 'grammar' rules, the way to get saved is by hearing the word of God preached and being converted through believing in Jesus Christ with their whole heart, A relationship follows, hence 'calling upon the name of the Lord' is a result of getting saved. The verse in Romans 10:14 being a good proof verse here. They can't call upon him unless they have believed in him.

[DaveW]

So you are happy then to change the meaning of shall to suit your statements?

[OLD fashioned preacher]

​You do realize that grammar rules in English are as stable as a termite in a yo-yo?

And have changed over and over, century after century. Our 'modern' English language grammar is only from the mid-1700's.

The KJB is not set up 'grammatically', and Noah Webster 'corrected' it and we have the 'Webster Bible' to prove it. But it didn't need correcting.

We just need to understand the text for what it says, and you can't have 2 different ways to get saved. And you do when you tell someone they need to ask Jesus to save them in a prayer. Nobody in the scriptures did that.

Unless the Lord has showed someone something he didn't want the rest of us seeing.

So irregardless of someone's 'grammar' rules, the way to get saved is by hearing the word of God preached and being converted through believing in Jesus Christ with their whole heart, A relationship follows, hence 'calling upon the name of the Lord' is a result of getting saved. The verse in Romans 10:14 being a good proof verse here. They can't call upon him unless they have believed in him.

​Noah Webster wrote an American dictionary, I highlighted the difference in common American usage and traditional English usage. This wasn't an American (including Webster's 1828) but English dictionary. Both Geneva and King James use words within an English context of usage and definition.

[Genevanpreacher]

​Noah Webster wrote an American dictionary, I highlighted the difference in common American usage and traditional English usage. This wasn't an American (including Webster's 1828) but English dictionary. Both Geneva and King James use words within an English context of usage and definition.

​So, did you read my last post or not?