Understanding Hebrews -2

[Covenanter]

Water baptism was a necessary step to becoming a priest. 

John the Baptist was preparing the nation of Israel to fulfill Exodus 19:6:

And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation

 

This will literally be fulfilled by Israel during the Millennial reign of Messiah.

You make an interesting point that needs study. Specifically compare Heb. 9:1-10 with Exodus 40. The priest, Aaron & his sons were washed - "baptised" by washing, & anointed, & dressed in ceremonial rOBes:

Ex. 40:12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water. 13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. 14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats: 15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office : for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

And tabernacle service began at age 30 - Num. 4:3 - the age at which Jesus was baptised & began his ministry.

 

Hebrews makes it very clear that the Aaronic priesthood was imperfect, & that the priestly ministry could not make the worshippers perfect. The sacrifices were made by sinners, & were of animals. Reread Heb. 7

Heb. 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect , but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: 21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent , Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) 22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever , hath an unchangeable priesthood.

 

Clearly the Aaronic priesthood came to an absolute end with the destruction. It was allowed to continue for the 40 years from Calvary as God is gracious, allowing time for repentance. Any attempt to revive that priesthood, with temple worship & animal sacrifices for sin, etc, would be a gross afront to Jesus & his saving work.

 

We need to see that Jesus' baptism was by a priest, John, & was acknowledged by the Father by the anointing of the Holy Spirit & the voice from heaven. Jesus' baptism was indeed a priestly consecration to his enduring office as our Great High Priest.

Mat. 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo , the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

When Jesus was challenged by the chief priests & elders regarding his cleansing of the temple, he appealed to his baptism by John - a baptism from heaven.

Mat. 21:23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching , and said , By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority? 24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25 The baptism of John, whence was it ? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying , If we shall say , From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? 26 But if we shall say , Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet. 27 And they answered Jesus, and said , We cannot tell . And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

 

So, yes, water baptism was necessary for Jesus to be a priest according to the Law, but his priesthood is an enduring office that was perfected by his death & resurrection. Peter explains that Ex. 19 is fulfilled in the church:

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not OBtained mercy, but now have OBtained mercy.

We are in Christ a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation.

[John81]

Hebrews, like every other book in the Bible, is written for the benefit of all. While there is debate on the matter, it's possible that Paul (Apostle to the Gentiles, who yet also preached unto the Hebrews everywhere he went) wrote Hebrews.

 

In any event, the New Covenant books are for all who follow Christ. Hebrews informs Gentiles as well as Hebrews that Christ is above all, He is superior to anything and anyone else, and Christ is all sufficient; this applies to Gentiles as well as Hebrews.

[DaveW]

The Bible calls them New Testament books.

[Genevanpreacher]

Study first century Judiasm.  Hebrews is written to..... ta da.... Hebrews.  The Apostle to the Gentiles is Paul.

 

First off, that doesn't answer the question.

Second, isn't that contrary to Disp. if Paul was the Apostle only to the gentiles, why would he write 'Hebrews'? (if Hebrews is written to Jews only.)

Peter said, to 'whoever' 1 & 2 Peter were written to, that Paul wrote to them.

Is Peters books written to the Jews only also?

A semi-close study of 1 & 2 Peter may reveal that they were not written only to the Jews.

 

Yet this is a study of 'Hebrews'.

 

I believe the Hebrew people are made up of people that are not just Jews in the sense that most might think.

There were Israelites at that time that were not 'into' Judaism, and did still follow the Lord as the OT common person did.

Which was not the current Judaism of Jesus' day.

They followed Moses Laws, not just the Scribes and Pharisees teachings about what they thought the Law taught.

Just as there are people today that believe God's ways and teachings over what the radio and TV ministers teach and preach.

There is truly nothing new under the sun.

So the whole of Hebrews can be a letter to people who did study under the Judaism (Jews) of the day, and to, (what properly could be

applied to non-Judaic Hebrews), Gentiles.

 

IMO.

[Covenanter]

Study first century Judiasm.  Hebrews is written to..... ta da.... Hebrews.  The Apostle to the Gentiles is Paul.

Any comments on my consideration of your baptism/priesthood statement?

 

Have you ever wondered why there is no mention of "Hebrews" in the epistle?

 

Where did you study first century Judaism? It is not highly commended by Jesus & his Apostles in the NT. Surely valid Judaism meant following Moses' teaching, while looking out for the promised Messiah, bearing in mind that rejecting Messiah would result in God's condemnation.

 

Deut. 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken . 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

 

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers , A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass , that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

[John81]

The Bible calls them New Testament books.

The Bible says we are under a New Covenant.

 

Hebrews 8:6-13 King James Version (KJV)

⁶ But now hath he OBtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

⁷ For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

⁸ For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

⁹ Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

¹⁰ For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

¹¹ And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

¹² For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

¹³ In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

[Covenanter]

Study first century Judiasm.  Hebrews is written to..... ta da.... Hebrews.  The Apostle to the Gentiles is Paul.

What was the Hebrew's writer's message to the Hebrews? Heb. 2:1-4

 

You can't continue to rely on the OC, nor Moses, nor the Aaronic priesthood. Heb. 8:13

[Covenanter]

Heb. 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

The writer is summing up - all the external features of the OC are patterns of the heavenly things, figures of the true. Christ is the reality, the better sacrifice, of a better, new & everlasting covenant. We have a great High Priest, & no need ever again of a human high priest - Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. The teaching that sacrifices will again be offered in a future millennium is absolutely contrary to the teaching in Hebrews. As he goes on to say:

10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come , and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect . 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered ? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

 

Ezek. 43:18-27 details animal sacrifices as sin offerings. Whatever the fulfilment of Ezekiel's temple prophecy is, it CANNOT be after Calvary. Please don't try to tell me they are "memorial offerings" as that would be a direct denial of the prophecy:

18 And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon. 19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.

It would also be a denial of the uniqueness & perfect sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary.

 

Just as all the detailed tabernacle regulations, sacrifices & priestly services were patterns of the heavenly, so Ezekiel's temple must be a pattern, a type of the new covenant worship centred on our Lord Jesus Christ, to be understood according to the teaching in Hebrews. That temple was not built, & never will be. Paul & Peter agree that the true temple is built with living stones, for acceptable spiritual worship is the church - the redeemed people of God.

 

Eph. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming , as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

As Jesus explained to the Samaritan woman:

John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh , when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship : for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh , and now is , when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

He concludes chapter 9 with a further reminder:

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

We all live & die, & after death face judgement - heaven or hell. If, & only if, you are trusting Christ for your salvation, you can with confidence - holy boldness - look for him to come for your full salvation, & that means resurrection glory.

 

[DaveW]

Your conclusions are wrong - deliberately, so that you can promote your false doctrines.
The passages do not say sacrifices will not be done, but that they will not be effective, and implies that they shouldn't be done.

It also doesn't say that a physical temple won't be built, just implies that it will not be approved by God.

But once again, you present things in a twisted fashion to try to support your twisted, preconceived understanding.

I still don't understand why a false teacher is able to lead a study on this site.......

[No Nicolaitans]

if Paul was the Apostle only to the gentiles, why would he write 'Hebrews'? (if Hebrews is written to Jews only.)

 

beameup believes that Hebrews was written by Priscilla (of Aquila and Priscilla).

[Genevanpreacher]

I heard in my past somewhere that since the crucifixion when the temple veil was ripped in half and the holy of holies was revealed, that there were no more sacrifices done by the people there.

Has anyone else heard that. I mean it would have been 20+ years ago or so.

[Covenanter]

Your conclusions are wrong - deliberately, so that you can promote your false doctrines.
The passages do not say sacrifices will not be done, but that they will not be effective, and implies that they shouldn't be done.

It also doesn't say that a physical temple won't be built, just implies that it will not be approved by God.

But once again, you present things in a twisted fashion to try to support your twisted, preconceived understanding.

I still don't understand why a false teacher is able to lead a study on this site.......

It is easy to make accusations of false doctrine. Can you show me from the Scriptures. where my teaching from the Scriptures is false?

 

Are you saying that if a future generation of Jews build a temple according to the inspired prophecy of Ezekiel, & implement the offerings & sacrifices for sin, that it will not be approved by God? But that they have to build it, so that it can be destroyed according to Jesus' Olivet prophecy? And do you reject the teaching of Hebrews, Peter & Paul?

 

Edited for grammar.

[Steve Schwenke]

Covenanter:

 

What DaveW is saying (and I wholeheartedly agree) is that you are teaching false doctrine. 

You demand that we "prove" our allegations.

The prOBlem is that there is no convincing you, no matter what we say.  I know I have tried in the past, and it was a pointless and fruitless effort - not to mention frustrating.  It is like banging our heads against a brick wall.  Personally, I have way too many things going on to waste more of my precious time debating with someone who is really not interested in listening or being corrected. 

 

Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

 

You might believe in salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, but you are dead wrong on your eschatology, and your allegorical method of interpretation.  I have demonstrated your "private interpretation" in the past - to no avail. 

 

And this is why I largely ignore you and your threads....

[Genevanpreacher]

Covenanter:

 

What DaveW is saying (and I wholeheartedly agree) is that you are teaching false doctrine. 

You demand that we "prove" our allegations.

The prOBlem is that there is no convincing you, no matter what we say.  I know I have tried in the past, and it was a pointless and fruitless effort - not to mention frustrating.  It is like banging our heads against a brick wall.  Personally, I have way too many things going on to waste more of my precious time debating with someone who is really not interested in listening or being corrected. 

 

Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

 

You might believe in salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, but you are dead wrong on your eschatology, and your allegorical method of interpretation.  I have demonstrated your "private interpretation" in the past - to no avail. 

 

And this is why I largely ignore you and your threads....

 

Well, you can disagree and still be an IFB and a Christian in most peoples views, I just hope a little disagreement over eschatology can be civilly 'understood' to be his convictions, and yours.

I tend to agree with most of what Covenanter teaches, and I understand it. I just can't see why his 'convictions' make him a false teacher.

 

You and I have had our disagreements also and I see you have your view, and I have mine.

I don't think you are a false teacher. Although your 'type' of truth IMO leads to an unscriptural end, I would not 'ignore' you and your threads.

 

[Covenanter]

Covenanter:

 

What DaveW is saying (and I wholeheartedly agree) is that you are teaching false doctrine. 

You demand that we "prove" our allegations.

The prOBlem is that there is no convincing you, no matter what we say.  I know I have tried in the past, and it was a pointless and fruitless effort - not to mention frustrating.  It is like banging our heads against a brick wall.  Personally, I have way too many things going on to waste more of my precious time debating with someone who is really not interested in listening or being corrected. 

 

Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"

 

You might believe in salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, but you are dead wrong on your eschatology, and your allegorical method of interpretation.  I have demonstrated your "private interpretation" in the past - to no avail. 

 

And this is why I largely ignore you and your threads....

 

You may disagree with what I teach, so that means one of us teaches false doctrine, though not necessarily a heretick.

 

I reject the accusation of "allegorical method of interpretation" as my teaching is fully based on Scripture, guided by the Apostles.

 

You disagree with my eschatology, but I am again guided by Scripture & Apostolic teaching about end times. In Hebrews, the writer begins:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

Note he is writing about these last days and it is very clear that he is concerned that his readers should respond to the Gospel today.

 

2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disOBedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

He is writing to his readers, who are in danger of turning back from Christ & the NC to Moses & the OC. The letter is full of Gospel urgency - every vestige of the OC is about to be destroyed according to Jesus' Olivet prophecy, the 40 years is fast running out. For the Gospel is always today - there may be no tomorrow for those who reject the only Saviour today.

 

9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.