It Shall Be An Everlasting Covenant With Them

[beameup]

From Ezekiel 37 ("valley of dry bones")

 

24  And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBserve my statutes, and do them.

 

25  And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto JacOB my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they,

and their children, and their children's children forever: and my servant David shall be their prince forever.

 

26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

 

"Covenants"

[swathdiver]

Huh, I remember reading somewhere in the OT that Israel's promised land went all the way out to the Tigris and Euphrates River or something like that.  

[LindaR]

Huh, I remember reading somewhere in the OT that Israel's promised land went all the way out to the Tigris and Euphrates River or something like that.  

God promised that Abraham's seed will possess the land reaching to the Euphrates:

 

Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

Joshua 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.

[beameup]

The map is from Ezekiel 47, the "Millennial" map.  Note the "tribes" are parallel (unlike O.T. times).

We can expect these borders PRIOR to the Tribulation (OBviously "enlarged" by another Arab-Israeli war).

[Rebecca]

I'm not well versed in prophecy, so I'm not sure if this is off topic, but why are the tribes divided differently/parallel? 

[Covenanter]

Beameup:

From Ezekiel 37 ("valley of dry bones")

 

24  And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBserve my statutes, and do them.

 

25  And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto JacOB my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they,

and their children, and their children's children forever: and my servant David shall be their prince forever.

 

26  Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

 

We need first to understand what a "covenant" (aka "testament") is, so we can understand the Scriptures. I am reposting from the other "covenant" thread.

 

The first four references in the NT are to the Lord's Supper. All these are to the New Testament.

 

"Testament" does not occur in the Old Testament - where the OT is quoted, "covenant" is replaced by "testament." Therefore we should in the AV consider the words as synonymous, unless the context indicates a specific meaning.

 

God makes covenants with his people, a promise of blessing and protection on condition of OBedience, or, sometimes unconditional. Gen.15, Ex. 24, Lev. 26, Jer. 31, the Lord's Supper, Hebrews. All the OT covenant promises requiring OBedience failed because of disOBedience. The New Covenant succeeds because of Jesus' perfect OBedience. Instead of OBedience to the Law, OBedience of faith grasps the covenant. Rejecting Christ rejects the new covenant, and forfeits the promises. Acts 3, Deu 18. 

 

Both Jews and Gentiles are welcomed into the covenant by faith, and ultimately receive ALL the covenant blessings in the NH&NE. Rev. 21. Many thousands of Jews did believe the Apostolic Gospel. The generation that rejected both the Messiah and the Gospel perished. The covenant promises are open to all through the Gospel. God is NOT planning a future vendetta/tribulation/rescue of a rebellious nation.

 

The feast is announced, all are invited - COME and WELCOME, but not claiming descent from Abraham, but come as repentant sinners to Jesus.  See John's preaching and John 8.

[Covenanter]

Both Joshua & Solomon declared that the promises to the Patriarchs were fulfilled in their days: Josh. 23:14 , 1 Kings 8:56

 

The earthly promises regarding the land, & the son of David were fulfilled in Solomon. BUT of course perfect fulfilment remained. God's ultimate purposes were & are for a totally righteous NH&NE.

 

A future millennium will NOT be the fulfilment of God's promises & prophecies regarding Israel. It is largely populated by Christ-hating rebels. I challenge you - look around at the situation in the present millennium. And then look forward to God's promises yet to be perfectly fulfilled - when our Lord Jesus Christ comes again for resurrection & judgement, to establish the NH&NE. 1 Peter 3:13 

 

The "land" promises will go way beyond the land Abraham could see in all directions - they will be realised to the ends of the earth: Psalm 98:3 , Isa. 45:22 , Mic. 5:4 , Zec. 9:9-11 (the pit of hell) , Acts 13:47 That needs the glorious NH&NE populated by the resurrected saints.

 

There was a restoration of the exiles - remember Ezekiel prophesied to the exiles - but it was never perfect, & the Israelites repeatedly turned away. We look forward still to the perfect blessings we have begum to experience by faith in Christ.

[beameup]

  God is NOT planning a future vendetta/tribulation/rescue of a rebellious nation.

 

 

Then you are making God out to be a liar, because some of the Covenants are unconditional and involve land (ie: real estate)

as well as a specific genetic race of individuals called Hebrews.

 

 

For example, in Genesis 15 we find God unilaterally confirming the Covenant promise of the land, as Abraham was in a "deep sleep".

[Covenanter]

Then you are making God out to be a liar, because some of the Covenants are unconditional and involve land (ie: real estate)

as well as a specific genetic race of individuals called Hebrews.

 

 

For example, in Genesis 15 we find God unilaterally confirming the Covenant promise of the land, as Abraham was in a "deep sleep".

Accusing me of accusing God of lying doesn't help your case. If you had read my posts, you would have been aware that I teach both conditional and unconditional covenants. And that the perfect fulfilment of all covenants will be in the NH&NE.

 

The OBvious prOBlems with a millennial fulfilment are -

The covenants in question, for fulfilment in the millennium are unilateral and everlasting, 

The millennium is far from everlasting in its perfection, but is populated by a vast multitude of sinners who reject Christ and are looking to Satan to lead them in rebellion, 

The souls of martyrs are enjoying the first resurrection, not a bodily resurrection, 

The situation in Revelation 20 is equivalent to 2 The. 1. Look and see. 

 

No. The Revelation 20 millennium is the present Gospel age, where our covenant relationship with Christ is established, and we suffer opposition (tribulation) from unbelievers, and we will be fully vindicated when we die in the Lord. We will be vindicated in the awareness of devils and the souls of the wicked, when they suffer tribulation in hell  when Jesus returns for the resurrection and judgment. 2 The. 1. 

[beameup]

 

 

 

No. The Revelation 20 millennium is the present Gospel age, where our covenant relationship with Christ is established, 

Your "OBvious prOBlems with a millennial fulfilment" are that the Millennium is specified as a 1,000 year period,

not some "approximately 2,000 year period", or "some indefinite period of time in excess of 1,900 years".

 

"Palestinian Covenant" to Israel (pure genetic Hebrews):

Deuteronomy 30

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,

² And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt OBey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

³ That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

⁴ If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

⁵ And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

⁶ And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

Jeremiah 23:7-8

⁷ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

 

⁸ But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

 

Ezekiel 37:21-25

²¹ And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen [Gentiles], whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

²⁴ And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBserve my statutes, and do them.

²⁵ And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto JacOB my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

 

The 1,000 year Millennium is the final dispensation before entering eternity.  It is a dispensation where mortal man - even under

the very best of (Edenic) circumstances - still fails to overcome his a sin-nature, thus proving that man needs a Savior from sin.

 

Psalm 2:6-8

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,

Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,

and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

 

 

 

 

[Genevanpreacher]

Your "OBvious prOBlems with a millennial fulfilment" are that the Millennium is specified as a 1,000 year period,

not some "approximately 2,000 year period", or "some indefinite period of time in excess of 1,900 years".

 

"Palestinian Covenant" to Israel (pure genetic Hebrews):

Deuteronomy 30

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee,

² And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt OBey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

³ That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

⁴ If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

⁵ And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

⁶ And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

Jeremiah 23:7-8

⁷ Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

 

⁸ But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

 

Ezekiel 37:21-25

²¹ And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen [Gentiles], whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

²² And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

²⁴ And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and OBserve my statutes, and do them.

²⁵ And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto JacOB my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

 

The 1,000 year Millennium is the final dispensation before entering eternity.  It is a dispensation where mortal man - even under

the very best of (Edenic) circumstances - still fails to overcome his a sin-nature, thus proving that man needs a Savior from sin.

 

Psalm 2:6-8

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me,

Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,

and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

 

 

 

 

 

Pure genetic Hebrews? Do they exist?

Where are they?

Pure means never to combine DNA with gentiles. Is that even possible in our time?

Read the end of Ezra and Nehemiah. They have mixed with the other nations, even back then.

[John81]

I can't help but wonder why some hold to very dogmatic, as they say, literal, interpretation of the millennium being exactly 1,000 years, yet when it comes to the 70 weeks they take another view claiming the 70 weeks actually means 69 weeks to be followed by an untold countless number of weeks that don't count as weeks which will then be followed by a week that will be counted as the 70th week. This is very inconsistent.

[beameup]

I can't help but wonder why some hold to very dogmatic, as they say, literal, interpretation of the millennium being exactly 1,000 years, yet when it comes to the 70 weeks they take another view claiming the 70 weeks actually means 69 weeks to be followed by an untold countless number of weeks that don't count as weeks which will then be followed by a week that will be counted as the 70th week. This is very inconsistent.

Perhaps you can supply historic evidence that the 70 shabuwa`  were consecutive. 

That would mean that the entire prophecy would have been fulfilled by 40 A.D.

Josephus would be a good place to start.  Please supply us with the historical facts... we await your reply.

 

Seventy weeks (shabuwa` - 'sevens') are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make

reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25

[John81]

The literal wording in Scripture indicates 70 weeks, not 69 weeks plus a huge gap of "weeks" that don't count, finally to be followed by what will be called the 70th week.

 

There is no book of Josephus in my Bible.

[Covenanter]

 

Perhaps you can supply historic evidence that the 70 shabuwa`  were consecutive. 

That would mean that the entire prophecy would have been fulfilled by 40 A.D.

Josephus would be a good place to start.  Please supply us with the historical facts... we await your reply.

 

Seventy weeks (shabuwa` - 'sevens') are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make

reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Daniel 9:25

 

That is a general statement of the saving work of Christ that was FINISHED in 70 weeks - 490 years. Jesus did all that in his work of redemption on the cross. From then on sinners are commanded to repent & believe in Jesus for full salvation.

 

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Jerusalem was rebuilt for Messiah to come. The 7 weeks may refer to the events recorded in the post exile histories. Jesus was anointed about the end of the 69th week.

 

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Gabriel says "after" the 69th week so the remaining events are during the 70th week & beyond. Jesus was cut off after 3 years ministry, & immediately before his rejection & crucifixion he prophesied the destruction & alluded to Daniel's prophecy. Invading armies are in prophecy referred to as floods. e.g. Isa. 59:19

 

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBlation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th week runs through Jesus 3 year ministry to the first 3-4 years of the Apostolic Gospel. The middle of the 70th week is Calvary, when for all saving purposes, sacrifices ceased. Atonement was accomplished. While many thousands welcomed the Gospel, during Jesus ministry & from Pentecost - confirming the covenant with many - the Jewish authorities rejected the Gospel despite the warnings from Moses ( Deu. 18:18-19 ) quoted by Peter in Acts 3:22-26 . The Holy Spirit declared them "uncircumcised." Acts 7:48-51 The 70th week was thus over in about AD 35. All that remained was the prophesied desolation/destruction. God graciously allowed 40 years before the final consummation. Heb. 3:5-12

 

The 70 week prophecy was a straight 490 years. If God graciously extends the period of repentance from 3 1/2 to 40 years dare we charge him with being "slack concerning his promise" ? 2 Peter 3:3-10

 

You err, not knowing the Scriptures, & like the Sadducees are trying to use them to establish your own errors & ridicule the truth. Mark 12:18-27