Who Is Your Favorite Pastor Among John Piper, John Macarthur, Max Lucado, Joshua Harris, Aiden Tozer, And Charles Spurgeon. Why?

[JerryNumbers]

Calvin did some good things in his time but even he, like most of the theologians during his day, still had a lot of Catholicism in their blood. The RCC ruled the landscape for 1000 years until this time. You don't just snap out of it over night. It takes time to rediscover the doctrines of the bible. Calvin desired to build a church/state just like a papist would want to do. Luther considered himself Catholic until they day he died even though he got bounced from the RCC. It's time to move on from men like Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Melanchthon, Knox, etc. to men whom God revealed more of his scripture too. I truly believe a lay person of today who loves God, lives and holy life and believes that God's word (KJV) is pure can know more of the "deep things of God" (I Cor. 2:10) then the fathers of the Reformation.

Psalm 119

[99] I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
[100] I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Some seem to think its impossible to live a good Christian life today, they seem to be always holding up pastors of yesterday years of whom they never met, who they were never around.

[CelinaCelinaCelina]

The problem with Calvinism is that the idea of limited atonement spreads through the rest of the doctrines. For example, Calvinism would say that because atonement is limited (i.e.:God only died for the elect), therefore His grace, when extended is irresistible. It would claim Perseverance of the Saints (which is not the same as Eternal Security) because since man couldn't pick to get saved, he certainly can't pick to get unsaved! "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Because of this overlapping of doctrine, I really don't think people can be 'partial' Calvinists. You either are or you ain't.

You're right, the doctrine of limited atonement is false. And such a blasphemy to our Lord who died for the sins of the world! (John 3:16) Take a look at the second half of that verse. What does it say? "that whosoever believeth in Him..." Whosover! Not some predetermined elect! Rev. 22:17 says "whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.'" There's that whosoever again! But what comes after it? Whosoever will. That Will there refers to the choice man has to accept or reject Christ. Luke 13 speaks of Christ mourning over Jerusalem, saying that He would gladly have gathered her children together to Him, but they would not! That will to accept or reject is free will. Jeremiah 10:23-24 is referring to the fact that man does not have the wisdom to choose and direct his own way - and choose it right! He needs the Lord's leading and guidance. It is not referring to salvation.

Because man has a free will, therefore Calvinism falls apart. Man is depraved, yes, but he is not so Totally Depraved (as Calvinism would teach) that he cannot even choose Christ when God calls him. Unconditional Election is the idea that, based on Christ supposedly only dying for the sins of the elect, God has pre-picked the elect. There is no unconditional grace in Calvinism! UE is again Biblically false - if God picked some for hell, then why does He say that He "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance"? (2 Pet. 3:9) It would be very double-minded of God for Him to say that He doesn't want any to perish, but then to personally choose - to create! - men for that very purpose! Frankly, a god that created men only to destroy them would be a horrible god. Our God is not such. Ezekiel 33:11 tells us that He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but desires them to turn from their wicked ways and live. He is calling them to turn! Where is this Unconditional Election here? Limited atonement, as you've already pointed out, is a direct contradiction of Christ's once-for-all atonement. Irresistible Grace cannot exist while man resists God. Ezekiel 33:11/2 Peter 3:9 again - we see here clearly that God clearly wants all to come to salvation - well, if man could not resist God's grace, why aren't they all saved? And the final point, Perseverance of the Saints, we see to be a corruption based on the other false TULIP doctrines. Once saved, always saved, yes - but not once saved because God picked us to go to heaven and we had no say in it and therefore always saved because we can't have a say against it.

Calvinism is an insidious doctrine that oh-so-subtly twists the pure Word of God. We have a nearby church that is being infiltrated by it, and it does seem from our observation of the church and various friends within it that no one ever learns Calvinism from the Bible! It has to be taught by hearing men and reading man's books. That's why it's so dangerous to listen to men like Paul Washer or John Piper - you might plan on chewing the meat and spitting out the bones, but are you sure you can always tell what the bones are? The Bible tells us to "mark them which cause divisions contrary to the faith (i.e. false doctrine) and avoid them". We are to separate ourselves from learning or reading their false doctrine lest it rub off on us!

BTW, one does not have to be either Calvinist or Armenian. Both are unbiblical. My pastor likes to say he's a Biblicist!

Thanks! Now I know. I never thought that to be able to call yourself a calvinist you have TO EXCLUSIVELY adhere to what it professes.

Well, I am not a calvinist then!

I have to admit, I may have read the entire bible and yet not know everything, Praise Jesus that I get to ask in this website for BIBLICAL answers.

But, John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And
Jeremiah 10:
23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.


I don't know. But I do not think that man's free will is as great as I formerly believed. Before I became a Christian,. I do not want anything about God! I hated people who tried to convert me. But when He manifested Himself to me, drew me to Him, I can't resist. Why would I resist? For the first time, I found Him, Jesus, BEAUTIFUL and this same God, said He loves me.
I did not planned or decide that on my own. I did not planned a year ago before my conversion that "On that day, I will love God.:"

There are things I can't explain. But Jesus asked me, "If I never get to tell you why, will you still trust me? Still believe me? Still love me? "

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Believe me, in my walk with Him, I have experienced a whole lot more than to the long years of my life I knew Him not, combined.
Life became harder, more problematic, and more DEPENDENT.

But I have more peace

So, I guess, yes, we can choose to do things now, but man's free will is nothing.

but the question is, if Papa[God] is the one who draws people to himself, how about the others who refuse Him? Or say those who may have never heard about Jesus?

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Hahahaha.. I am happy I am not God. I don't have to immerse myself to solve all this issues! HAHAHA...
But imagine how GREAT He is to be able to take into consideration all these things... The God who Breathe the stars to place! Who sustains all creation and He does not fail in any of it. And He is our Father,

How blessed,

Grace to all.

[No Nicolaitans]

BTW, one does not have to be either Calvinist or Armenian. Both are unbiblical. My pastor likes to say he's a Biblicist!

Great point salyan! Unfortunately, Calvinists believe...If you're not a Calvinist, you're an Arminian. I don't know if Arminians believe that vice-versa.

There are Calvinist churches, there are Arminian churches...and there are plenty of good and sound Bible-believing churches that don't hold to either camp (though they're becoming a minority it seems).

Both Calvinism and Arminianism have dangerous and false doctrines in their belief system. I don't understand why some people think you're either one or the other. I'm like your pastor, I'm not going to align myself with anything that contradicts scripture.

The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me. I'll stand alone on the word of God (not "Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion" or Arminius' "Five Articles of Remonstrance")...the B-I-B-L-E!

I'd never even heard of either until I got a computer, and I'd never been taught either system growing up in church.

[JerryNumbers]

Thanks! Now I know. I never thought that to be able to call yourself a calvinist you have TO EXCLUSIVELY adhere to what it professes.

Well, I am not a calvinist then!

I have to admit, I may have read the entire bible and yet not know everything, Praise Jesus that I get to ask in this website for BIBLICAL answers.

But, John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And
Jeremiah 10:
23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.


I don't know. But I do not think that man's free will is as great as I formerly believed. Before I became a Christian,. I do not want anything about God! I hated people who tried to convert me. But when He manifested Himself to me, drew me to Him, I can't resist. Why would I resist? For the first time, I found Him, Jesus, BEAUTIFUL and this same God, said He loves me.
I did not planned or decide that on my own. I did not planned a year ago before my conversion that "On that day, I will love God.:"

There are things I can't explain. But Jesus asked me, "If I never get to tell you why, will you still trust me? Still believe me? Still love me? "

Isaiah 55
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Believe me, in my walk with Him, I have experienced a whole lot more than to the long years of my life I knew Him not, combined.
Life became harder, more problematic, and more DEPENDENT.

But I have more peace

So, I guess, yes, we can choose to do things now, but man's free will is nothing.

but the question is, if Papa[God] is the one who draws people to himself, how about the others who refuse Him? Or say those who may have never heard about Jesus?

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Hahahaha.. I am happy I am not God. I don't have to immerse myself to solve all this issues! HAHAHA...
But imagine how GREAT He is to be able to take into consideration all these things... The God who Breathe the stars to place! Who sustains all creation and He does not fail in any of it. And He is our Father,

How blessed,

Grace to all.

I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.

They just plainly refuse, Our Lord knocks, yet if they do not open the door, he never breaks in, or forces His way in. As already shown, its whosoever, & His will is actually everyone to be saved.

And as I preciously stated, if the TULIP doctrine was true, everyone that finds their self in Hell would be able to blame God, saying, You would not let us get saved, making Romans 1:18,19,20, which you posted, a lie, for they would have a
legitimate excuse.

I've heard of people that stated, 'I'm just to bad to be saved, with the sins I've committed, God does not want me nor will He save me,' perhaps someone gave them a big dose of Calvinism, & after hearing it they thought there was no way God would chose them to be saved because they've been to bad, I have to be one of those God rejected & doomed for Hell not matter what I do. When the fact is.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Confess their sins, Freely open that door, call on the name of the Lord, drinking the water of life freely & they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

[John81]

I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.

They just plainly refuse, Our Lord knocks, yet if they do not open the door, he never breaks in, or forces His way in. As already shown, its whosoever, & His will is actually everyone to be saved.

And as I preciously stated, if the TULIP doctrine was true, everyone that finds their self in Hell would be able to blame God, saying, You would not let us get saved, making Romans 1:18,19,20, which you posted, a lie, for they would have a
legitimate excuse.

I've heard of people that stated, 'I'm just to bad to be saved, with the sins I've committed, God does not want me nor will He save me,' perhaps someone gave them a big dose of Calvinism, & after hearing it they thought there was no way God would chose them to be saved because they've been to bad, I have to be one of those God rejected & doomed for Hell not matter what I do. When the fact is.

Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Confess their sins, Freely open that door, call on the name of the Lord, drinking the water of life freely & they will be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

Papa means daddy, father, and is a term of endearment for many. While it differs depending upon the culture, for some Papa means father, for others Papa is more intiment like daddy. We read in Scripture of calling God, "Abba, Father", which basically means "Daddy, Father".

Papa means Daddy or Father for many around the world and is not at all like saying "the man upstairs", which is disrespectful.

[CelinaCelinaCelina]

I don't know how others feel about this, but I cannot stand for people not to show disrespect for God, by calling Him papa or the Man Upstairs.

Well, yes, this may seem inappropriate to call God Papa... At first, I was calling Him God, Almighty God, and then I read about Galatians 4:6 and Romans 8:15 and even asked Him if I can call Him Daddy. Of course, no burning bush, no walls falling, no fire blazing.,... I claimed it by faith. I said that if He does not want me to call Him such, let Him rebuke me by some means.

I called Him Daddy and then to Papa when after something He did for me, I just praised Him and the first thing that came to my mouth was Papa. Then felt Him say, "Isn't that better than Daddy? Heartfelt?"

I do not know if you will think I am nuts if I say that I sometimes hear a STILL SMALL VOICE. Yes I do.
But I have to be sure if they do not depart from anything from the Bible.

Written messages do not reflect the tone of the voice to express intention and emotion, that's why I perceived this as if you don't think its right. I need to admit, I got sad.

He's all I have. He is the only One I ever get to call my Papa... So forgive me.

I don't blame you though... He is God after all.

But no worries though... I'm gonna call Him Papa... Hehehehe...

Thanks for the insights though... Makes me really feel like a part of a big family.

[Salyan]

It's okay, Celina. God is our Father - which means our Papa (although in my Welsh heritage, that name means Grandpa) - and as long as one isn't using these names in an disrespectful manner, it is perfectly all right to call Him so!

I think the different cultures contribute to our views of which names are 'appropriate' to call the Lord. I have a Filipina friend who I'm pretty sure I've heard call God 'Papa' as well. On the other hand, the proliferation of The Shack in this culture (not a good book - don't bother looking it up ) has probably given most North American fundamentalists a leeriness of using the same name.

[JerryNumbers]

Still quite voice, yet, the only way we can know God, Jesus, & how to live to please Them, follow, is to study & know His Word, the Holy Bible. There is no new revelations given to anyone. As for the still quite voice, the Holy Spirit, if a person is saved it will convict that person when they are about to do something wrong.

Trouble with saying Papa, is it leads to many saying things like the man upstairs which become disrespectful. I use Bible language from my KJ Bible, that way I want go wrong, Father & or God.

[pilgrimspen]

To Jerry well, Papa is just the same as Father right?... and Jesus called GOD, Abba = Father, Papa
What is troubling is when I heard a kid say Papa Jesus... Jesus is not our Father..

There are issues here because a lot of conservative Christians who have read the novel THE SHACK (this is a really bad novel... undoctrinal.. fantasy novel)... the author here addressed the character of GOD as Papa and the Christians said its disrespectful.

But some say its ok to call GOD Papa. And some say its okay if you're comfortable with it, after all what's important is in our hearts,

Well, can you cite in the bible if this is wrong? Any biblical basis so we will know.

Well, for my part I call Him Almighty Father. :coffee2:

Edited July 22, 2012 by pilgrimspen

[heartstrings]

Jesus is the Everlasting Father Isaiah 9:6

[JerryNumbers]

To Jerry well, Papa is just the same as Father right?... and Jesus called GOD, Abba = Father, Papa
What is troubling is when I heard a kid say Papa Jesus... Jesus is not our Father..

There are issues here because a lot of conservative Christians who have read the novel THE SHACK (this is a really bad novel... undoctrinal.. fantasy novel)... the author here addressed the character of GOD as Papa and the Christians said its disrespectful.

But some say its ok to call GOD Papa. And some say its okay if you're comfortable with it, after all what's important is in our hearts,

Well, can you cite in the bible if this is wrong? Any biblical basis so we will know.

Well, for my part I call Him Almighty Father.

Yes, I know what Papa means, as I stated earlier, I dislike what it leads some to call God.

[Invicta]

While Jesus tells us to address God as "Our Father", we should still address him with reverence and awe. He is a Holy God, and we are sinners.

[pilgrimspen]

Oh, I see. Well, different views here as I stated earlier. Talk to some of my churchmates and some say its okay if you are comfortable in calling that way. :smug:

[JerryNumbers]

Some church people show more respect addressing their pastor, Sunday school teacher, than they do to the Father & His Son. Of course there's not much respect left in our society.

[John81]

I've not read any of the books by Piper but I looked him up on YouTube and watched serval videos of him. Out of all the videos I watched I only found one kind of good. I don't really care for his style and didn't care for the messages in most of his videos either.