Kentucky church bans interracial marriage

[heartstrings]

Just because some 'black churches' may do it too, still doesn't make it right. It is always our business to speak out against sin, no matter who or whose church may be doing it. For instance, if Fred Phelps' "church" wants to spew out hate in the name of religion, it ain't just "their business". Sin is sin.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:11

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Just because some 'black churches' may do it too, still doesn't make it right. It is always our business to speak out against sin, no matter who or whose church may be doing it. For instance, if Fred Phelps' "church" wants to spew out hate in the name of religion, it ain't just "their business". Sin is sin.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:11

You're dealing with pointing out Biblical error to other Christians ---- this situation is one of the public-at-large determining right/wrong, etc by their "I feel" standards.

The issue brought out here was not a "don't teach/preach about it" one, but rather an "it's the business of everyone in the country (saved, lost, religious, non religious) one.

[brosmith]

I am going to take an unpopular stand but I, as a pastor, would not perform an interracial marriage nor would I permit interracial couples to publicly minister in the church. The Bible speaks of "the bounds of their habitation" (Acts 17:26). Yes, we are of all one blood and one race (the human race that is) but God did not intend for mankind to be united as one (read Genesis 11 - The Tower of Babel). As a pastor, I would not have allowed this mixed couple to sing in church the first time. But you know what? As a pastor, that is my perrogative. Each pastor and each church will give an account to God for their position.

Romans 14:4 - "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." You want to call me a racist? Go ahead, I don't really care.

Edited December 3, 2011 by brosmith

[JerryNumbers]

Oh, by the way, Bro. Smith, I'm a Bro. Smith too!

Can't say what I would do, I have not been in that situations. I agree with you, each church has to make their own decisions & of course they will be answerable to God.

I have preached in two churches that had an interracial couple in attendance, they had one daughter. I preached just as I would at any other time.

[Guest]

As far as "church statements of faith and conduct" being private or public domain...Paul and John went to great links to insure we knew the accepted conduct and errors taught within the early local church. They are written in the scriptures. It is very much the business of Christians to know what goes on in a church invoking Christ's name as their head. In the church of Jesus Christ we do not hide parts of the ministry from other Christians.

Christian people who form interracial families have all the rights of any other redeemed person in heaven. So, how can we as men assume to prevent those rights within the church on earth?

[John81]

I am going to take an unpopular stand but I, as a pastor, would not perform an interracial marriage nor would I permit interracial couples to publicly minister in the church. The Bible speaks of "the bounds of their habitation" (Acts 17:26). Yes, we are of all one blood and one race (the human race that is) but God did not intend for mankind to be united as one (read Genesis 11 - The Tower of Babel). As a pastor, I would not have allowed this mixed couple to sing in church the first time. But you know what? As a pastor, that is my perrogative. Each pastor and each church will give an account to God for their position.

Romans 14:4 - "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." You want to call me a racist? Go ahead, I don't really care.

That is the view my Mom's pastor/church held when she was growing up, and again as a young woman. Many churches still held to this when I was a child and youth.

I agree that such matters are for each pastor/church to determine for themselves. Folks are free to attend or not attend a church for whatever reason, including regarding this matter. After all, some folks won't attend a particular church because of the color of the carpet.

[John81]

As far as "church statements of faith and conduct" being private or public domain...Paul and John went to great links to insure we knew the accepted conduct and errors taught within the early local church. They are written in the scriptures. It is very much the business of Christians to know what goes on in a church invoking Christ's name as their head. In the church of Jesus Christ we do not hide parts of the ministry from other Christians.

Christian people who form interracial families have all the rights of any other redeemed person in heaven. So, how can we as men assume to prevent those rights within the church on earth?

On doctrinal issues they were very specific. Is this a doctrinal issue? Does Scripture say anywhere that pastors/churches must accept interracial marriage or allow interracial couples to participate in special performances and such? Matters of who a pastor/church will marry, who they allow to perform before the congregation, what sort of events they allow, etc., are all matters where a pastor/church has liberty to decide for themselves. Membership requirements in a particular church are also established by each church.

The Kentucky church says they allow interracial couples to attend their church, they are only barred from giving special performances, being married by in that church, or being members of that church. In many other areas individual churches make similar decisions based upon whatever criteria they think important to them.

Again, one can pick out a hundred churches in a given area find many non-doctrinal aspects of several of those churches with which to take issue but it's each churches liberty to have such. It's each individual/families liberty to attend or not attend any particular church.

[Seth Doty]

I am going to take an unpopular stand but I, as a pastor, would not perform an interracial marriage nor would I permit interracial couples to publicly minister in the church. The Bible speaks of "the bounds of their habitation" (Acts 17:26). Yes, we are of all one blood and one race (the human race that is) but God did not intend for mankind to be united as one (read Genesis 11 - The Tower of Babel).

If your going to be consistent and if your categorically apposed to such things on the grounds "God did not intend mankind to be united as one", and if your going to use the tower of babel as evidence, then logically I would think you would be apposed to learning other languages as well. After all God confused the languages at the tower of babel precisely to create division. Also if your going to use Acts 17:26 as some type of evidence then logically you should be apposed to marrying someone from a different country regardless of the race they were of, and within the same country it also would not matter what race they were of. The verse is talking about God setting the bounds of nations not races after all. So no English/German, American/Canadian marriages either.

Truth be told when you boil it down much of the time it seems black and some other color marriages are the only interracial marriages that are categorically disapproved of by some. A White guy with a Hispanic lady or a White guy with a Asian lady and the same people that object to Black guy with a White woman don't seem to care more often than not. That tells me it is indeed more often than not the last vestiges of racism, conscious or not, and that kind of thing is also doubtless why at one point it was semi-popular to teach that the "mark of cain" was being black regardless of zero evidence for that and the fact that all his descendants were destroyed in the flood. Now in a sense this is every individuals own business, nothing says you "must" personally approve of interracial marriages or perform marriage ceremonies in such cases if it bothers you. However you certainly can't even begin to reasonably defend such a position from scripture and if a pastor/church does penalize a couple for no other reason but something like this then I do think they are in the wrong and will have to answer for it to God. Churches are made up of sinful people and occasionally have to deal with the results of racism in the midst along with just about everything else. No different than when in the early church at Jerusalem the Greek widows were being neglected and receiving less than Jewish widows for racial reasons and the office of deacon was created precisely to take care of some of the effects of that sin of racism within the church and restore the proper balance.
.

[brosmith]

Oh, by the way, Bro. Smith, I'm a Bro. Smith too!

Nice to meet you Bro Smith!

[rancher824]

If it 9is wrong for a white to marry a black (not talking about wise, but sinful) is it wrong for a white to marry a indian, a white an asian, a white a hispanic, a indian an asian, a indian an hispanic, a black an asian, and keep going mixing these. If a white and a black did marry, and had a child, and the child grows to adulthood. Can that child marry a white of a black, or can it not marry at all?

[heartstrings]

I am going to take an unpopular stand but I, as a pastor, would not perform an interracial marriage nor would I permit interracial couples to publicly minister in the church. The Bible speaks of "the bounds of their habitation" (Acts 17:26). Yes, we are of all one blood and one race (the human race that is) but God did not intend for mankind to be united as one (read Genesis 11 - The Tower of Babel). As a pastor, I would not have allowed this mixed couple to sing in church the first time. But you know what? As a pastor, that is my perrogative. Each pastor and each church will give an account to God for their position.

Romans 14:4 - "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." You want to call me a racist? Go ahead, I don't really care.

No, your stand is popular alright among your own circles Moses married an Ethiopian and even the Lord Jesus Christ had Moabite and Canaanite ancestry so you probably wouldn't let them participate in your church either. What did God do to Moses' sister for her attitude?.....hmm

[John81]

No, your stand is popular alright among your own circles Moses married an Ethiopian and even the Lord Jesus Christ had Moabite and Canaanite ancestry so you probably wouldn't let them participate in your church either. What did God do to Moses' sister for her attitude?.....hmm

Does Scripture say the Ethiopian was black? No, and at that time there were many in Ethiopia, mostly among the leadership class, that were not black. Does Scripture say those who opposed the marriage of Moses and the Ethiopian were doing so because of race? Does it say God interceded because of racial reasons? This whole aspect is left uknown and therefore this incident can't rightly be used for either side to try and make their case.

Check the racial history of the Moabites and Canaanites. Again, this isn't a sound argument for either position either.

Scripture leaves room for folks to practice a measure of separation in this area or to practice intermingling. Folks can make all sorts of arguments for both views but none of them are without holes and none of them have a clear biblical command behind them.

I realize some view a verse or two as saying something more specific than many see, but none come right out and clearly support either view. What Scripture does clearly say is that if one does believe Scripture teaches a certain view then they should abide by that. There should be no need for either side to try and force their views on others. If one church doesn't suit a persons tastes in this or any number of other areas, they are free to not attend that church and go to another or even start their own.

Why should we, or anyone, be telling an independent church they must or must not accept this view?

[Covenanter]

Why should we, or anyone, be telling an independent church they must or must not accept this view?

I am astonished & concerned at the support for this pastor. In the New Covenant Scriptures there is a wonderful emphasis on unity regardless of ethnicity.

Acts 1:⁸But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

10:²⁸And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
²⁹Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

Gal. 3:²⁶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
²⁷For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
²⁸There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
²⁹And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rev. 5:⁹And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
¹⁰And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

No. An independent church is not free to exclude blacks, nor to restrict marriage in the Lord.

[Invicta]

Does Scripture say the Ethiopian was black? No, and at that time there were many in Ethiopia, mostly among the leadership class, that were not black. Does Scripture say those who opposed the marriage of Moses and the Ethiopian were doing so because of race? Does it say God interceded because of racial reasons? This whole aspect is left uknown and therefore this incident can't rightly be used for either side to try and make their case.

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

[John81]

I am astonished & concerned at the support for this pastor. In the New Covenant Scriptures there is a wonderful emphasis on unity regardless of ethnicity.

Acts 1:⁸But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

10:²⁸And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
²⁹Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

Gal. 3:²⁶For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
²⁷For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
²⁸There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
²⁹And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rev. 5:⁹And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
¹⁰And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

No. An independent church is not free to exclude blacks, nor to restrict marriage in the Lord.

I don't know that anyone here is supporting the pastor. It wasn't only the pastor, the church held a vote on this issue.

Blacks are not excluded from attending this church. The only restriction is that interracial couples can't become members, can't perform special numbers and can't be married there. They are still welcome to attend the church if they wish.

Do we all have to agree on all things in order to have unity? Does a black church have to give up their preferred music for bluegrass Gospel in order to have unity with certain others who want to join? Does a hispanic church have to stop having their services preached in Spanish so there can be unity with English speaking Christians in the area?

That which they took a vote on and instituted isn't a matter of doctrine. It's a matter of preference. Anyone who doesn't like or wish to abide with that preference is free to not attend that church and find a church that suits their preferences or start their own.

The Gospel of Christ can be preached without preferencial unity, it can be preached in mixed congregations, as well as in congregations that are all white, black, Japanese, or any other group.

This is a local church matter that we don't have to agree or disagree with.