Suicide and salvation?

[Brother Rick]

And the rest of the post......?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Suicide is the ultimate act of rebellion against God. The child of God will not commit suicide. The Holy Spirit will console the child of God in times of distress. He will guide the Child of God into truth.

Paul said, "We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body."

Why could Paul say this? Because he had the Comforter with him, speaking to him in those times when he was troubled, perplexed, persecuted, and cast down. The Spirit strengthens the child of God, He does not allow the child of God come to the place where that child sees no hope.

[HappyChristian]

The child him/her self can come to that point. God allows us to wander if we choose to. You are making emphatic statements (using Paul's description of himself as a hard and fast statement that will always apply to every single Christian - if they are truly saved) that do not include the fact that Christians can take their eyes off the Lord. And it can result in suicide, just as it did with the young lady I referenced earlier.

[JerryNumbers]

I’m not going to try & talk you out of what you believe about this matter. With my questions now I understand your thought on the matter of suicide.

Yet I would like to give you something to think about.

I’ve known a few people that has committed suicide, the latest being an elderly member of our churches daughters husband. He was a Vietnam War Veteran, & it seemed to cause him quite a bit of troubles thou the years.

Supposedly he made a profession of faith back in the early 80’s, & actually the only one that knows if his profession was empty words is our Savior who shall judge the secrets of all men. As for me God called me to preach the Gospel, not to judge if someone is saved or not saved. Oh, yes I can tell man by their fruit, but I cannot read that heart. And I surely can’t tell if this husband who killed himself, hurting his wife, children, grandchildren, & friends beyond my comprehension.

You know, all of us are saved by grace, & without that grace no man could have the hope of heaven. It seems you try to take that grace out of the formula for those who commit suicide. If grace is taken away for one sin, them it has to be taken away for all sins. And you know well, even you & I have avoided those tribulations you speak of many times throughout our lives choosing not to go thru them if we could find a way around them.

I might add one more thing, many think suicide is unforgiveable because ones its done that person cannot confess that sin. That is not true for the saved person, the saved person, at the moment they accept Jesus as savior they have the promise of heaven.

And on judgment day the only judging they will receive is for rewards. Some will receive rewards, sadly, others will lose all rewards. And that is the only judgment the saved will go thru, for at death they have the promised of eternal life.

Not true of the lost, they will be judge by their works, & will be punished according to the deeds they have done, them it’s the second death, life in the lake of fire forever.

PS. I might add, you put forth a long article entitled, Four Reasons Suicide Is Wrong, I don't think there is a person her that would say that suicide is right, but would agree that its a sin. I could write an article 100,000 pages long describing why ever sin is wrong, both for the saved. But lets not ever take grace out, & the fact, the person that has been truly saved cannot do one thing to lose their salvation.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The child him/her self can come to that point. God allows us to wander if we choose to. You are making emphatic statements (using Paul's description of himself as a hard and fast statement that will always apply to every single Christian - if they are truly saved) that do not include the fact that Christians can take their eyes off the Lord. And it can result in suicide, just as it did with the young lady I referenced earlier.

Paul was not speaking of himself only. He used the word "we", not "I".

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I knew a girl years ago who committed suicide. She was saved - no matter what you are trying to make scripture say, standing. This girl was saved. Why did she commit suicide? Because her father told her she could not do what she believed God was calling her to do. This was a young girl (about 19). There were other things that happened and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe she should have gloried in her tribulation, but to take that verse and claim that anyone who commits suicide can't be saved because they aren't glorying in their tribulation is really stretching it. Big time. I know this for sure: I will see this young lady again in eternity. Salvation is eternal. And Christians who take their eyes off the Lord, who do not submit to his loving leadership, are as capable as any - because we are still in the flesh - of sin. Even the sin of suicide.

I disagree. If God is calling someone to do a work for Him, He is going to provide a way for that person to do that work. Where God guides... God provides. The girl committed suicide out of an act of rebellion... both toward her father, and also toward God... if indeed God had called her to do a work.

The girl did not have the Comforter guiding her into all truth, bringing her mind to rest in times of hardship... that is obvious.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

PS. I might add, you put forth a long article entitled, Four Reasons Suicide Is Wrong, I don't think there is a person her that would say that suicide is right, but would agree that its a sin. I could write an article 100,000 pages long describing why ever sin is wrong, both for the saved. But lets not ever take grace out, & the fact, the person that has been truly saved cannot do one thing to lose their salvation.

Let's not forget that the Comforter consoles those in distress. He guides them into all truth and points them to Christ.

The Holy Spirit will not allow the saved to commit suicide. If He did, He would be remiss in His mission for the saved.

[heartstrings]

Let's not forget that the Comforter consoles those in distress. He guides them into all truth and points them to Christ.

The Holy Spirit will not allow the saved to commit suicide. If He did, He would be remiss in His mission for the saved.

SAMSON pushed those pillars and it was SAMSON who committed the SUICIDE....But it was GOD who provided the POWER to push the pillars. Do you get that? Do you understand? Then God goes and puts Samson's name in Hebrews 11? Hmmm

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I am going to address the points in your 17th Chapter. I tried to address them all at once, but for some reason it keeps saying the number of opening quotes does not match the number of closing quotes.... even though in Word it shows 13 of each.

So I will try to address a couple at a time

[Brother Rick]

I’m not going to try & talk you out of what you believe about this matter. With my questions now I understand your thought on the matter of suicide.

Yet I would like to give you something to think about...

Thanks Jerry for your down-to-earth post. I believe your most valuable asset when it comes to this forum is your experience and wisdom when it comes to these things on a pratical matter. Many times we (or at least I do) get caught up in all the doctrinal minutia and arguments and sometimes lose sight of the pratical side of things.


SFIC,

You keep dodging things. Anyone can take a dogmatic stand on something, but when people challenge you on that stand and you just ignore the difficult questions no one respects that stand. In post #114 I pointed out three major problems with your stand but you completly ignored two of them and only half-heartedly addressed one. You also completly ignored the following statement (this will be the third time I've posted it for you):


"Even if they were lost, the young man delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh was not. He had sex with his father's wife and was saved! Paul's solution was to deliver the young man unto Satan - not to go to Hell but to die. God would have killed him if he had not repented, and before you tell me that the man was guaranteed to repent because 'the sheep always follow the Shepherd in the end,' go back and read this passage under point six:

I Cor. 11:29-30, “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30) For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.” Edited December 20, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[Standing Firm In Christ]

SAMSON pushed those pillars and it was SAMSON who committed the SUICIDE....But it was GOD who provided the POWER to push the pillars. Do you get that? Do you understand? Then God goes and puts Samson's name in Hebrews 11? Hmmm

What happened to Samson was "muwth", not "ratsach" There is a difference. God does not want man committing suicide. Samson's death was not suicide.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

This is what a rebellious child of God stands to lose:

1. Joy.

Rev. 2:4, “Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.”

Living a life focused on self won’t make a lost man happy in the long run, and it certainly won’t for a saved man. That saved man has the Holy Spirit of God in him all the while he is living his life in sin. How sad to think of a man who had all the potential in the world to live for Christ, later on in life wishing he had a second chance. A Christian who only lives his life for himself will always find himself, at some point, disappointed and sorrowful for doing so.

Why is he disappointed and sorrowful? Because he has been chastened by the Lord. The Lord will not allow the child of God to remain in sin long. John said, "That which is born of God cannot sin", meaning cannot continue in sin. We know that to be the case, because John said earlier "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous." The Lord chastens those He loves. He does not allow them to continue in sin... contrary to what many believe. He will chasten those who are His and because His sheep hear His voice, they will repent and follow Him. They will not commit suicide.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

2. Rewards.

II John 1:8, “Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.”

The Bible is very clear that Christians get rewards in Heaven based upon Christian service in their life. The time in which Christians are rewarded is called the Judgment Seat of Christ, and it follows the Rapture of the Church. In I Corinthians 3 it speaks of Christians being rewarded with gold, silver, and precious stones. Other passages speak of five crowns that the believer can receive as well.

The truth is, no one has received a single reward as of yet. Those rewards will be given out at a future date. I John 1:8, along with parable of the pounds in Luke 19 teach us that it is possible for Christians to lose these rewards. You could live your whole life for Christ and then blow it at the very end, destroying your testimony as many preachers have, and watch your whole life go up in smoke at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

The child of God will lose rewards for the deeds he does in his body. Paul reveals this to the Church at Corinth in his 1st and 2nd epistles. These passages are not speaking of sins, but rather of works in the body. Has nothing to do with self-murder whatsoever.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

3. Millennial Reign.

II Tim. 2:12-13, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”

Some have used verse twelve to try and prove that a Christian can be denied by Christ and lose his salvation. Verse thirteen clears that up – Christ will never deny us a home in Heaven because to do so would mean He’d have to deny Himself (we are joint-heirs with Him and in the body of Christ). However, we do stand to lose a special position following the rapture.

After the Rapture, and the Tribulation, Jesus Christ will rule the world from Jerusalem. This period of time will last one thousand years (see Revelation chapter twenty) and during it the saints will reign with Christ. God says that if you suffer for Christ now on this Earth, that you’ll reign with Him later on. However, if you deny Him, he’ll deny you a Millennial reign.

How sad to be living in the Millennium, and even though life will be so much better than it is now, to know in the back of your mind that because you denied Christ you’re missing out on the wonderful experience of reigning with Him.

One is denying Him when one commits suicide. They are turning their back on Him to follow another. And if they deny Him, He will deny them. They will hear the words... I never knew you.

I do not hold to the unbiblical doctrine of the saved not reigning with Christ in the Millennial Kingdom.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

4. Testimony and Influence.

Rev. 2:5, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

The candlesticks in Revelation represented churches that were in the presence of Jesus Christ. The church that refused to repent lost the power of God on it as its candlestick was taken away.

An example of this in the Old Testament is Lot. In II Peter 2:8 we read that Lot was righteous and his soul was vexed with the wickedness that was around him on a daily basis. When it came time to leave Sodom, no one took him seriously because of the company he kept (Gen. 19:14). He refused to separate himself when he should have, and as a result he lost his testimony and any influence he had as a believer.

Note that the pastor was told to repent? What does that tell you? More than likely, the pastor repented. He was saved. But he fell into sin. And just as I have shown, God chastened him. His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. The removing of the candlestick means the pastor would be taken out of the Church he was in and be placed elsewhere. Nowhere dos this point allow for the false teaching that one who is saved can commit suicide.