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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

Suicide and salvation?

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2Tim215
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.

Same with a suicide. The heart truly was not changed. The pig that was washed returned to the mire because the old nature was still there. He was not in Christ at all.

The works of the flesh are manifest which are these... they which do such things SHALL NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, some might say that is speaking of inheritance, and not of Salvation. But wait, all those born into the Kingdom of God are heirs.

Romans 8:17-18 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

That is Catholic teaching. There is nothing in Scripture which declares every sin one commits after being born again must be specifically repented of in order for their salvation to remain intact.

Scripture declares we are saved by grace through faith, and once saved we are forgiven of ALL our sins, past, present and future. Our salvation is not contingent upon our making sure that every sin we commit is specifically repented of prior to death.

Likely as not, we commit so many sins in the course of a day that we don't even recognize all of them. These include sins of omission, sins of the heart, as well as sins of words and deeds. How many Christians pray as much each day as the Holy Ghost would have us to, or pray for each and every person, place and thing the Holy Ghost would have us to, or read the Bible when, where and how much the Holy Ghost would have us to, how many fully redeem the time each second of each day, how many have each thought and word fully under subjection to Christ each second of every day...none, no, not one; and yet each sin each day isn't specifically noticed nor repented of by Christians and yet that doesn't mean they are not saved nor will God cast them into hell for failing to do that which is humanly impossible.

Our salvation is based upon the grace of God, not upon our ability notice each sin and make sure to repent of each one before we die. According to your Catholic-style teaching, if one were to die while in prayer, yet they hadn't yet repented of each sin of that day, they would go to hell. That's simply not Scripture.
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Suicide is the ultimate rejection, of which you can't repent. One dies in one's sins, one dies without hope. End of story.


Based upon your interpretation, salvation is based upon what I do as a person, not upon what God does through his work in Christ. In your view, it seems to me, accepting the call of God to follow Christ is not enough. From what you are saying, one must repent from sin every time one stumbles. If I do not, then I am going to hell. What happens if I am driving down the road, pick up the cell phone and call some one to tell them a lie, and them am struck by another car and killed? I have not repented and asked God to forgive me of my lie. IN fact, I died while telling a lie. What happens if a teenage believer stumbles and gets drunk, and then drives into a telphone pole killing himself?

God's grace is enough to cover all, even suicide. A person who is desparate enough to commit suicide is in a very, very mentally disturbed state. They often cannot think straight and are trapped in serious depression that none of us can even fathom. It is a terrible thing yes, but God's grace can cover that person's actions.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I have answered. You just don't like the answer. It does not matter if one made a profession of faith and walked like a Christian, talked like a Christian, behaved like a Christian for 40 years of one's life. If that person decided to go out and commit adultery and had a heart attack in the course of that act, that man would go to hell. He died an adulterer. He did not repent of his adultery. All adulterers will have their part with the lake of fire. That which was in his heart was manifest. His heart was deceitful and desperately wicked and the thoughts of his heart surfaced to prove that those 40 years, the cup was clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.



Thank you for posting this. It shows that you do not believe in eternal security or salvation by grace. You may profess to, you may even think you do - but you don't. If nothing else, you don't understand salvation by grace or eternal security, and I know you're too stubborn to listen no matter how many people may try to explain it to you.

By taking this stand on a man who appears to be a Christian his whole life but goes to Hell because of dying after one act of adultery, you must also concede that if a person dies after committing any of the following sins they too must go to Hell because they died in that particular sin:

Rev. 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

1. Fearful. If a person dies scared they go to Hell, they were never saved to begin with.

2. Unbelieving. If someone dies doubting God, they go to Hell.

3. Abominable. Someone who is morally repugnant. Of course you'd go with this. The question is, what makes a person "morally repugnant?" You could assign anything to that.

4. Murderers. This would include suicide, murder of another, or unwarranted anger in your heart towards another person according to Jesus.

5. Whoremongers. This is fornication, adultery, prostitution... and porn according to Jesus. If a Christian man dies after looking upon a woman to lust after her, be it a magazine or a billboard, according to your system of 'grace' he was never saved and must go to Hell.

6. Sorcerers. According to Romans 1:32 you could make the argument that if someone died after watching Harry Potter they'd go to Hell. That, honestly, wouldn't surprise me if it came from you.

7. Idolaters. If a Christian puts anything in the place of God, be it in worship or esteem it more important (like a job, money, or reputation), then they go to Hell when they die.

8. Liars. If you lie and die you fry, is that it?

In fact, according to I John 3:8 if you sin at all you will go to Hell!

I John 3:8, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

So I made a mistake and I'd like to apologize to all my Calvinist friends on this forum. You are not a Calvinist; you are a Catholic for all practical purposes. You may not pray the rosary, eat the cracker, and confess your sins to a man - but on a practical level you believe the underlying foundation doctrine of all Catholics.

You believe in grace (so do the Catholics!), but that someone must die in a "state of grace." They must die with all of their sins currently confessed or they go to Hell. You attempt to look like a Baptist by claiming that they were "never saved to begin with," but you've already stated that even if a person has shown evidence of salvation but dies after committing just one of the above sins they will go to Hell. In other words, no one can really be sure of their salvation (A major Catholic teaching!) because what if I die after doubting God about my finances, or what if I die after bailing out on church (In the Catholic world this would be missing mass!) for whatever reason and therefore die in a state of idolatry? If I lie and then die I will fry? How can anyone be sure they will go to Heaven under what you believe?!?!?!?!?!

I think everyone here understands that you are way off on this thing. But can I ask you a couple of questions:

1. Do you understand the doctrine of the two natures? The old nature which makes you sin after you are saved is not eradicated once you are saved. You do understand that, don't you?

2. Do you understand that even though a Christian sins all the time (I John 1:8-10), that on a spiritual level (that is when it comes to whether or not he'll go to Heaven or Hell) that Christian never sins again for the rest of his life? That's right, on an earthly, physical, immediate level we sin all the time, but on a spiritual and eternal level we never sin again after we are saved? Look at this verse:

I John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

That verse clearly states that a child of God doesn't sin, and that he can't sin. As in he doesn't have the ability to sin. Once a person is saved, on an eternal level God never sees another sin, ever again.

It reminds me of this verse:

Numbers 23:21, "He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them."

Yes, there are consequences to sin and living in an unrepentant lifestyle - but our eternal destiny is based upon Jesus Christ and what He did for us on Calvary. Not on ourselves. This completely wipes out your entire argument in one fell swoop because we as Christians are not eternally accountable for our actions, as in when it comes to our eternal and final destination. You will reject this because, being a normal human being that you are, you reject what real grace is. Grace is something you don't deserve and couldn't ever possibly hope to earn.

That's real grace. Edited by Rick Schworer
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  • Lady Administrators

Salvation is a gift from God. And repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation - it is not a work. That is a false doctrine being pushed by quick prayerism followers. And it is not biblical.

Neither is it biblical to dismiss the goodness of God's forgiveness. When Christ died on the cross, shedding His blood, He shed it for the forgiveness of ALL of our sins. When we turn to Christ for forgiveness, in repentance AND faith, we are forgiven of ALL sins: past, present AND future. And we have eternal life. When a Christian sins, a wall can form between the Christian and our Heavenly Father. That wall does not doom us to Hell - but it does make a Christian miserable while they are away from fellowship. If death occurs during that time, Hell does not await. That is a heinous misapplication of scripture.

Having said that, I think the discussion has gone far enough. Both "sides" have expressed themselves. :threadlockedbc5:

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