Is it possible to renounce salvation?

[HappyChristian]

I understand what you are saying. However, that still does not explain that passage I quoted in Hebrews. If once cannot renounce salvation, what does this passage mean? It leaves me a bit confused if we say one cannot renounce salvation.

Also, in John 10:29, it says no man can pluck you from the Father's hand. That implies an external force applied to a person, such as Satan. I am not sure this applies to one's self saying you cannot renounce salvation. If that were included, it would have said, "No man can walk out of the Father's hands." I am not disagreeing with you, but I do not see how John 10:29 can be extended to apply to one's own decision.

As far as renouncing salvation implying that salvation is works ba. sed, I do not believe it is. No works can earn salvation. That is crystal clear. However, a man must respond to to the Father's call to accept the gift. Each person is free to chose to reject it. THe rich young ruler went away sad because he could not do what was asked of him upon receiving the call of Christ. What was required of him? Well, selling his possessions, giving to the poor and following the call of Christ. Those actions would not have saved him, but responding affirmativly to the call of Christ would have. THe grace God extends through Christ is where salvation is found, but it does take belief and a decision to follow Christ.

So, after making a decision, is it not possible for one to make the decision to throw out that gift of grace? Again, I am not arguing one way or another, just trying to reconcile the Scriptures on this. I still do not know what the Hebrews passage means if once cannot revoke his decision. However, when I read in the context of one being able to revoke his decision, then it makes perfect sense.

This is a difficult issue for me to reconcile in my mind as I read the scriptures on the issue.

Kind, all scripture needs to dovetail together. And nowhere does God say that if one renounces Christ they lose their salvation. John 10:29 is an eternal security promise, just as John 3:16 is. Were a person to turn on God (and many do), they would grieve the Holy Spirit, wouldn't you say? Well, God tells us in Eph. 4:30 "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." That verse supports John 10:29 meaning that nobody, even oneself, can get out of God's hand. And, yes, it would be works based. Because it would be: get saved, but don't turn your back on God because then you'll no longer be saved and never have another opportunity. That is a person maintaining their own salvation, which is actually one of the tenets of works based salvation.

After making a decision for Christ, it is possible to backslide. And backslide horribly. But God promises that the new life He gives is eternal. He's the One Who crafted that life, and in His Word He assures us that it is everlasting. That means nobody can lose it - by choice or by chance.

I understand you're trying to reconcile scripture - that's something we all have to do, and this is a very important topic, actually. Check out this link - it shows two ideas on what the Hebrews passage you quoted could mean. http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html

[John81]

When we are born again we have everlasting life, HAVE, not "may have if we hold onto it". John tells us that we can KNOW we are saved. Once God seals us with the Holy Ghost upon salvation, we are sealed forever as His.

[Covenanter]

I understand you're trying to reconcile scripture - that's something we all have to do, and this is a very important topic, actually. Check out this link - it shows two ideas on what the Hebrews passage you quoted could mean. http://www.gotquesti.../Hebrews-6.html

LuAnne DePriest

Both suggestions are reasonable.

I consider however that we should put these verses in their historical context - to the Hebrews - Jews who were saved out of a nation that had rejected her Messiah, & the Apostles with their Gospel. The nation was now living out the sentence of destruction that would come on that generation.

The Jewish leaders had deliberately & wilfully rejected Jesus & his message from a position of clear revelation. Rather than repent, they had tried to silence God's messengers. They had seen the miracles of Jesus & the Apostles, & could not deny them. What hope was there?

Hebrews has earlier quoted Psalm 95, & comments: Hbr 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hbr 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hbr 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Note that it is the evil heart of unbelief that departs, not the believers who hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.

I think Hebrews is primarily concerned with learning from the national rejection of Christ - they saw all the wonders of Jesus' ministry & miracles. Dare we reject the testimony of his word - we who have experienced his salvation? God forbid! But if any of us do, then it can only be because we were never saved, but just associating with believers for a time, like Judas.

Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
...
Jhn 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
Jhn 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jhn 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?
Jhn 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust.
Jhn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Jhn 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

[Bro Jim]

I don't agree with all that Schofield says but I like this explanation:

1917 Scofield Reference Bible Notes
Heb 6:42 impossible
Margin: partakers2 impossible

Heb 6:4-8 presents the case of Jewish professed believers who halt short of faith in Christ after advancing to the very threshold of salvation, even "going along with" the Holy Spirit in His work of enlightenment and conviction. Joh 16:8-10. It is not said that they had faith. This supposed person is like the spies at Kadesh-barnea De 1:19-26 who saw the land and had the very fruit of it in their hands, and yet turned back.

Margin: partakers Gr. "metochous," going along with.

Copied form Sword Seacher

[Faith1611]

I don't agree with all that Schofield says but I like this explanation:

1917 Scofield Reference Bible Notes
Heb 6:42 impossible
Margin: partakers2 impossible

Heb 6:4-8 presents the case of Jewish professed believers who halt short of faith in Christ after advancing to the very threshold of salvation, even "going along with" the Holy Spirit in His work of enlightenment and conviction. Joh 16:8-10. It is not said that they had faith. This supposed person is like the spies at Kadesh-barnea De 1:19-26 who saw the land and had the very fruit of it in their hands, and yet turned back.

Margin: partakers Gr. "metochous," going along with.

Copied form Sword Seacher

Forgive me that that note is totally misleading and wrong. The spies at Kadesh were Jews in the Covenant of God and delivered from Egypt. They lost faith. They weren't almost Jews and almost those who were in the covenant! They were in! They were THE chosen people! But by not ENDURING TO THE END, like Christ taught, the lost out with God forever.

Notice also what Hebrews 6 does say:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God,
and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

That above list describes salvation and experiences with the Holy Spirit, His baptism and power. These people were enlightened--this is a reference to the new birth. They tasted THE heavenly gift. They didn't almost GET SAVED--they tasted and saw the Lord is good. They were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST! I am sorry, but unbelievers are not made such! This speaks of being filled with the Spirit and further it says they tasted the good word of God and the POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME. What is this? Pentecostal power, the gifts of the Spirit, etc. You cannot find a more detailed outline of salvation experiences and Pentecostal experiences with the Spirit in the New Testament.

The Scofield note-writers simply cannot face the passage honestly because they are committed to a false doctrine that is especially made clear in the book of Hebrews. Edited January 8, 2011 by Faith1611

[Eric Stahl]

Eternal Security

If a person asks Jesus to come into their heart and asks God to forgive their sins and tells others

that they have accepted Jesus as Lord because He died for their sins and rose from the grave,

that person is saved from going to hell when they die. But what happens if that person sins later

in life?


Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. KJV

Once you are saved God imputes Jesus righteousness to you forever and will never impute or charge sin to you again.



Rom 7:19-20

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. KJV



Paul tells us that it is not you, the spirit, that sins but you the old nature and flesh, that is charged

with the sin.



1 Cor 15:50-54

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. KJV



1 Cor 3:10-15

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KJV

Notice in verse 15, that even if you lose all your rewards you yourself will go to heaven and not hell.

[byhisstrength]

Nope, once saved, always saved. I agree with John81, a lot of people pretend they got saved and are really good at it, but it does not mean they are saved, so they can't lose it to begin with.

I know someone who was even baptized, but just because they say they are and go through the acts of being a Christian that does not mean they are actually saved. That is why Jesus said many will come to me, saying haven't I done this and this and He will respond, "Depart, I know you not!" He knows who are His from the second they begin to pray.

For someone to go from being saved to an atheist does not say much for their salvation to begin with, but only God knows if he was sincere in accepting him before he walked away from Him. If he was sincere when he got saved he will be in heaven.

Deep down they are angry, frustrated, and bitter, they blame God for their lives being a mess or whatever it is, but I tell you what when it all comes down to it, they will be thanking God for not casting them out like they cast Him out.

[Eric Stahl]

Eric E Stahl "Notice in verse 1 Cor 3:15, that even if you lose all your rewards you yourself will go to heaven and not hell."

Nope, once saved, always saved. I agree with John81, a lot of people pretend they got saved and are really good at it, but it does not mean they are saved, so they can't lose it to begin with.

I know someone who was even baptized, but just because they say they are and go through the acts of being a Christian that does not mean they are actually saved. That is why Jesus said many will come to me, saying haven't I done this and this and He will respond, "Depart, I know you not!" He knows who are His from the second they begin to pray..

For someone to go from being saved to an atheist does not say much for their salvation to begin with, but only God knows if he was sincere in accepting him before he walked away from Him. If he was sincere when he got saved he will be in heaven.


Deep down they are angry, frustrated, and bitter, they blame God for their lives being a mess or whatever it is, but I tell you what when it all comes down to it, they will be thanking God for not casting them out like they cast Him out.

I agree that you can't lose your salvation. Your post after mine seemed to indicate you thought I thought you could be lost. Edited December 31, 2011 by Eric Stahl

[byhisstrength]

No, I wasn't reffering to anyone's post.

[trell]

Howdy all!

I find it noteworthy that in some denominations, they dismiss 'eternal life' and 'everlasting life' and teach a Christian can not get to heaven if they sin after they are saved, without scripture in the church letters that back up such a claim. Nothing personal towards anyone, but many Pentecostal and Catholic denominations teach this.

Other Christians are taught you can get saved, but then if the person walks poorly, they say the person wasn't really saved, though there is no scripture in the church epistles to support this viewpoint.

Still others say Simon wasn't really saved, though scripture clearly says he believed.

It is a shame people will not to believe the Word, rather than preconceived notions.

[JerryNumbers]

This is a good time to point out the majority of denominations never teach anyone how to be saved, & if all members believe as their denominations teaches, everyone in that denominations is lost. I have heard several quote the percentages of churches that teach one is saved by grace though faith, not of self, not of works, its a gift, sets at about 20 %. I believe that is pretty close to about right, with what Jesus stated in Matthew7:13,14.

So those people, denominations, that teaches you can be lost after you have been saved probably have never been saved, & if you've never been saved, you cannot lose your salvation. Yet we know that if anyone ever lost their salvation, that thye could never be saved again because of thses verses.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So we can safely say they're false teachers just by claiming a person can lose thier salvation, & gain it back again.

Denounce salvation? No.


Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So no, once a person has eternal life, everlasting life, they cannot get rid of it, if they could them it could not be said one has eternal life,everlasting life, & we could not believe any of the Bible for that would prove the verses I gave from John 3 are lies, & we who belong to God knows well that the Holy Bible has no lies within its pages.

[John81]

There are many who teach that one must hold onto their salvation by being good, doing certain good works, being loyal to the church, etc. This is a totally false teaching and most such churches also teach a false gospel, not an actual surrender to Christ where one is born again, but rather a head "faith" which says they "accept Christ" but now must do all they can through their own efforts to remain a Christian, and to hope they don't commit some "bad sin" before they die and lose salvation and end up in hell.

There is so much of this sort of false teaching out there. I encountered such as a child in a Methodist church. I believed in God but that was about as far as the Methodist teaching led me in that direction. The rest of the Methodist teaching I received basically amounted to my good better outweigh my bad or God would punish me, the devil would come for me, I could end up in hell because I had not been "good enough".

There is a lady in our church, I do believe she is born again, yet she spent so many years in a church which taught against eternal security that she still has a hard time understanding the biblical truth of this and still catches herself thinking she has to worry about the state of her soul at all times.

[trell]

There are also many published books which sell millions of copies that do not teach how to be saved. That Rick Warren book, whatever the name of the book is, is one. A lot of feel good about yourself, but not a lick that I could find about confessing Jesus as Lord, believing God raised him from the dead.

Eternal life means just that - eternal. If you could renounce it, lose it, or have it taken from you, it wouldn't be eternal.

[JerryNumbers]

There are also many published books which sell millions of copies that do not teach how to be saved. That Rick Warren book, whatever the name of the book is, is one. A lot of feel good about yourself, but not a lick that I could find about confessing Jesus as Lord, believing God raised him from the dead.

Eternal life means just that - eternal. If you could renounce it, lose it, or have it taken from you, it wouldn't be eternal.

Mr. Warren can prove everything he preaches & teaches, but it takes at least 13 or more versions of a Bible for him to prove it, he can't prove his teaching & preaching by only using the old KJ Bible.

.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I do not believe one who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit will renounce his or her faith or belief in Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches us that the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, so I don't see how a believer can fall into apostasy to the point of denying Christ.

If one made a profession at some stage in life and years later walked away from the Christian faith and now lives the life of an atheist, I do not believe that profession resulted in possession. Their hearts were not truly changed though they had made a profession.