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Faith1611

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  1. This is nonsense. The NT faith is Pentecostal/Charismatic from beginning to end, and the NT teaches it would stay that way until Christ returns. The largest Evangelical group in the world is the Pentecostals, and they are the force in Global Missions, because they have been endued with power from on High. Many of the so-called Baptist groups prior to the reformations believed in laying hands of believers to receive the Holy Ghost! These people were hardly Baptists!
  2. Uh, lets see here--Lucifer and the 1/3 that fell were once Elect Angels. They were certainly God's. Paul said all men were "HIS OFFSPRING" in Acts 17. In Ezekiel God said ALL SOULS ARE MINE. In Eccl 12 it says the flesh returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God WHO GAVE IT. All men are God's offspring. All belong to Him. But many are estranged from Him by sin. Angels and men, IN A STATE OF GRACE, lost that grace and blessed estate. These are facts. OSAS defenders believe sin somehow changed in the New Testament and doesn't separate from God, doesn't destroy spiritual life and grieve away the Spirit of grace. This is foolishness.
  3. Absolutely and totally wrong. These people LEFT OFF justification by faith and went back under justification by the law! The whole letter proves Paul is addressing LAPSED BELIEVERS who fell prey to another gospel promoted by heretics. In Chapter three he asks who had bewitched them away from following the truth and that they had RUN WELL, and now were off course. Paul was speaking to believers. The OSAS defender HAS TO SAY he was speaking to unsaved Jews because he desires to save his false doctrine, rather than accept the teaching of Scripture. Paul had NO REASON to rebuke Law-observing Jews for "going back under" the law they had never left, which is what this defense of OSAS is actually saying! It is utter nonsense. Believers had gone back under the Law and Paul said that they which do that have FALLEN FROM GRACE and that Christ was of no avail, profit or benefit to them. They were cut off from Him. All these things are IMPOSSIBLE of Paul believed OSAS. Since he plainly said them, then he did not believe OSAS. What is troubling is the ease with which defenders of false doctrine will twist the Scriptures to save their errors. Truly this troubles my spirit. Why can't they just admit the truth--that if a believe departs from the faith into heresy of sins of the flesh, it appears he will not fare well on the day of judgment. This is obvious.
  4. Your analogy is false for two reasons: 1- It is unBiblical. Nowhere does the Bible ever make such an argument. 2- Your son could grow up and have nothing to do with you(God forbid). You surely would not have a son. He could become a criminal and be executed for his crimes(God forbid). You would lose your son. By your "logic", NONE CAN EVER BE LOST, because after all, who has made all men? Who is their Creator and hence their Father? Therefore, all are His sons and daughters no matter what they do, and so UNIVERSALISM IS TRUE, if your argument is valid. The fact that your argument leads to universalism proves it is false. God has lost many children, and lamented it-Matthew 23:37-39
  5. So you call me a wolf after complaining about the words I used? You take it to this level, and claim I am hell-bound? This is hypocrisy. You claim I am not speaking by the Spirit of God? You surely are not because I am a born again believer who loves Jesus Christ and has been saved by Him. I am an elder in my church. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, and what I wrote is true, therefore it is of the Spirit of God, Your response was not only a lie, but evasive as well. My post offered exegesis and argument. You avoided that, and instead seek to paint me as a deceiver so others won't listen. Such tactics are surely diabolical.
  6. Well, that is called hypocrisy. The response to my post, which offered Scriptural exegesis and argument, was met with a personal attack claiming I am not saved, but a wolf! And this same individual complained about how I spoke and the words I used, and then called me a wolf. That sure is easier than admitting they can't answer my points and they are guilty of twisting Scripture.
  7. Your interpretation of 2Tim 2 :12 is clearly incorrect. It lists different things. If we suffer with HIm--will will reign with Him in the Millenium. But if we DENY HIM rather than suffer, He will deny us. Christ already made it plain what He would do and what it meant. He would I say that He does not know us before the Father and the angels. This is about salvation, not about denying us a reign. That is simply a side-step some have come up with the blunt the force of all the verses that disprove OSAS. So they admit it teaches a form of loss, but it will be some millenial loss. That is clearly an Ad Hoc theory to save OSAS. It was never arrived at by a careful, inductive study of the Bible. OSAS apologists came up with this idea to save their unBiblical doctrine. The last part is misused to deny the previous clause! It says if we become faithless--if we believers stop believing--believe not, He stays the same--faithful. Clearly it is possible, under the pressure of suffering, to not only deny the Lord, but to cease to believe. Even though we would deny Him, He doesn't change, for He cannot deny Himself. Therefore, if we are to be like Him, we must not deny Him either. That verse absolutely refutes OSAS. The spin offered by OSAS apologists is obvious. Next we are offered a theory that its not our faith that saved us, but Christs. Its given to us, and since its His, it can't fail. Well 2Tim 2:12 denies this. We all know of real believers who bore fruit, that later fell away, and some deny the reality of Christianity now. Also, this idea shows a lack of understandingof this language. Christ told the woman "Daughter, YOUR FAITH has saved you"-Luke 7:50. In Eph 1:13 Paul we says we first trusted in Christ after we heard the gospel. This idea that its Christ's faith and not ours is nonsense. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The reason its the faith "of" Christ is because the message is about Christ. That message stirs faith in us. There is no support for OSAS with arguments like these. They are clearly artificial and contrived
  8. Its amazing to read the standard cessationist/Baptist dismissal of tongues and what the New Testament teaches for their tradition. Tongues are not a sign "just for the Jews". That is not Biblical. Tongues is for THE CHURCH according to Paul, and as long as the New Testament Church exists, tongues and all the other gifts of the Spirit exist and manifest, except where those who don't believe or resist. I have read the responses in this thread and they are the same old unBiblical cliches I have heard for 20 years. These things have been refuted over and over, and yet it appears many are totally unaware of it. How said. Many years ago Carl Brumbach wrote a book called WHAT MEANETH THIS. Its available on Amazon. He addresses all these things and shows what THE BIBLE actually teaches rather than men's tradition, excuses and unbelief.
  9. Forgive me that that note is totally misleading and wrong. The spies at Kadesh were Jews in the Covenant of God and delivered from Egypt. They lost faith. They weren't almost Jews and almost those who were in the covenant! They were in! They were THE chosen people! But by not ENDURING TO THE END, like Christ taught, the lost out with God forever. Notice also what Hebrews 6 does say: 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. That above list describes salvation and experiences with the Holy Spirit, His baptism and power. These people were enlightened--this is a reference to the new birth. They tasted THE heavenly gift. They didn't almost GET SAVED--they tasted and saw the Lord is good. They were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST! I am sorry, but unbelievers are not made such! This speaks of being filled with the Spirit and further it says they tasted the good word of God and the POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME. What is this? Pentecostal power, the gifts of the Spirit, etc. You cannot find a more detailed outline of salvation experiences and Pentecostal experiences with the Spirit in the New Testament. The Scofield note-writers simply cannot face the passage honestly because they are committed to a false doctrine that is especially made clear in the book of Hebrews.
  10. the problem is that since we are saved by faith, you have asserted that a man with no faith is saved. Also, you did not quote the whole verse, and totally misapplied the last clause! It says if we deny Him, He will deny us. Period. And Christ told the 12 that if they denied Him before men He would deny them before the Father-Matt.10. The Bible speaks of those who depart from the faith, those whose faith has been destroyed, those who shipwreck faith, and faith that only endures for awhile. The story of the Prodigal Son was not given to teach OSAS, it was to get Jews to understand the mercy of God in Christ being kind and accepting ot the Samaritans. The point is that if a Samaritan repents, the Father will gladly receive him back. So should the elder brothers--the Jews. To insert OSAS here is to read the story out of context and twist it. Interestingly, in John 15:1-6, we are told to abide in HIm, and He in us, and every branch in HIm that does not abide will wither, die and ultimately be gathered for a burning. OSAS is not only unBiblical, but utterly dangerous to men's souls and a believer's sanctification and desires to be holy and live an overcoming life.

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