You're Confederate ... But Don't Know It?

[John81]

Myself, I've never heard a Baptist preacher make any anti-black racial slurs nor declare that blacks were meant to be slaves. So far, the only racist comments I've heard from preachers were made by black preachers attacking whites.

It should be noted that after The War, many northern states and cities within the northern states passed what came to be known as "anti-black laws". They didn't want blacks moving in.

In any event, this thread isn't about slavery or blacks, this particular thread is about the political ideals many hold today that are exactly what the Confederacy stood for but they don't know that because they've never learned real history.

[tired]

There were shots fired at union troops here in Baltimore before Sumpter.

[John81]

There were shots fired at union troops here in Baltimore before Sumpter.

The people of Baltimore rose up in an attempt to stop union troops from passing through their city. They were angered that their sovereignty was being subjugated. Of course, had Lincoln not illegally arrested the political leaders of Maryland, it's likely Maryland would have left the Union as well.

[futurehope]

Sad part about all of this is that people don't want facts Jerry and John, they want emotions. They want someone to say well, it's just all wrong because it's wrong. They can't give you chapter and verse, but they want to condemn it anyway. Don't get me wrong, I am against slavery as I think a man ought to work for himself and for the Lord - period.

It's also interesting to see what you are saying about what came to be called "reverse discrimination" here 10 or fifteen years ago taking place even within the inauguration events. All the news casts are totally focussed on the color of BO's skin - not his agendas. The same was true during the election. Is this going to continue to be the case throughout his presidency? Will he go down in history (if the Lord tarries that long) as a great president (like "Honest Abe") just because he is the first "black" president? Sad to think that we are fighting a war on multiple fronts, there are hundreds of thousands who are losing their homes or already homeless and jobless, and the business world is falling down around itself - and the only thing they can see in the new president is that he is black. Well I sure hope we can sell him for enough to repair the economy he helped destry, because him being black isn't going to help anything else. (yes, that was sarcasm)

God Bless,

Futurehope

[JerryNumbers]

I have never heard a Baptist Pastor speak raciest from a pulpit in my 62 years, I've mentioned this before on this board. In fact I have asked pastors thru the last several years these questions.

1. What would your reaction be is a black family started attending church with you?
2. What would your reaction be if a black family wanted to join your church?

The answers I have received are, they woudl be welcome as anyone else would be as long as they their beliefs lined up with the Bible.

I do know of at least 3, maybe 4 locally that has some black members, but they are few. Mostly because the blacks enjoy their own traditional services and rightly do not care for the services that takes place in a church made up of white people.

Back when blacks and whites were to attend school together the biggest problem here was the blacks did not want to. Their school administrator and school board members, along with all of the area black people wanted to keep their own schools. But the government FORCED them to leave their schools and attend school with the white people. I would imagine it was that way in many areas.

That has been several years ago, the government is still forcing all of us to do and or not do thing and the things they force on us are growing with each new month.

futurehope, Your right, many people whether in or out of church, they really don't want to hear the truth.

[HappyChristian]

I have never heard a Baptist Pastor speak raciest from a pulpit in my 62 years, I've mentioned this before on this board. In fact I have asked pastors thru the last several years these questions.

1. What would your reaction be is a black family started attending church with you?
2. What would your reaction be if a black family wanted to join your church?

The answers I have received are, they woudl be welcome as anyone else would be as long as they their beliefs lined up with the Bible.

I do know of at least 3, maybe 4 locally that has some black members, but they are few. Mostly because the blacks enjoy their own traditional services and rightly do not care for the services that takes place in a church made up of white people.

Back when blacks and whites were to attend school together the biggest problem here was the blacks did not want to. Their school administrator and school board members, along with all of the area black people wanted to keep their own schools. But the government FORCED them to leave their schools and attend school with the white people. I would imagine it was that way in many areas.

That has been several years ago, the government is still forcing all of us to do and or not do thing and the things they force on us are growing with each new month.

futurehope, Your right, many people whether in or out of church, they really don't want to hear the truth.

I attended an IFB church where the pastor went out of his way to make those who were black uncomfortable about continuing in the church...and he told me once the reason for it was because of a man who didn't even attend...he was afraid that if blacks started coming, the man would make his family quit. Needless to say, I didn't believe that, and I later just asked the wife if her husband didn't like blacks (it fit into a conversation, and I never mentioned the pastor's words). She just laughed at me and said of course not! There was a couple who visited the church who were white, but had a black baby (one of their sister's baby). They were also made very uncomfortable until they just decided to find another church. Sad.

RE: The uncivil war...Fort Sumter was in a state that had seceded from the union. Lincoln refused to recall the soldiers. They were "enemies" occupying confederate territory.

Slavery was just one issue in the war, in the southern side. The primary issue was state's rights - as guaranteed in the tenth amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Lincoln ignored that. The great hero trampled on our constitution, and created a federal republic, which is what we have now - quicly becoming socialist republic - instead of a constitutional republic.

[heartstrings]

I attended an IFB church where the pastor went out of his way to make those who were black uncomfortable about continuing in the church...and he told me once the reason for it was because of a man who didn't even attend...he was afraid that if blacks started coming, the man would make his family quit. Needless to say, I didn't believe that, and I later just asked the wife if her husband didn't like blacks (it fit into a conversation, and I never mentioned the pastor's words). She just laughed at me and said of course not! There was a couple who visited the church who were white, but had a black baby (one of their sister's baby). They were also made very uncomfortable until they just decided to find another church. Sad.

RE: The uncivil war...Fort Sumter was in a state that had seceded from the union. Lincoln refused to recall the soldiers. They were "enemies" occupying confederate territory.

Slavery was just one issue in the war, in the southern side. The primary issue was state's rights - as guaranteed in the tenth amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Lincoln ignored that. The great hero trampled on our constitution, and created a federal republic, which is what we have now - quicly becoming socialist republic - instead of a constitutional republic.

Tell it like it is, sister.
And Lincoln did not wage the war to free the slaves; he did it to 'save the union'. What was it he said? Something like 'if I could save the union without freeing the slaves, I would do that" or something to that effect. My Dad was a 'camp commander' in the Sons of Confederate Veterans so I heard all of that.

Jerry and Futurehope,
If the South was 'right', why did God allow her to be defeated?
But here are a few truths and facts......

1. My former pastor (well known in IFB circles) preached that Blacks were meant to be slaves.
2. A well known IFB preacher, at last year's camp meeting, made a racial joke from our pulpit.
3. The War Between the States is over.
3. The Blacks were mistreated and there also were Jim Crow laws .
4. Our forefathers should NOT have enslaved the Blacks
5. We are now reaping what our forefathers sowed.
6. Our country is in a terrible mess
7. Our country has now elected a very wicked man (Obama) for a president.
8. The WBTS was a horrible chapter in our nation's history.
9. Black people have been taught so many beleive that the war was fought over slavery.
10. Many still distrust white people.
11. The majority of them are lost and they want empowerment and monetary gain.
12. Sadly, they believed Obama can fulfill their desires.
13. They don't care whether we are confederate or not (and somehow I don't think Jesus does either.)
14. What DOES make them take notice, is when you care about them as human beings. Can they see Jesus in us?

[1Timothy115]

I've heard Independent Baptist preachers make racial slurs about blacks and one of my own IFB pastors taught that blacks were ordained by God to be slaves because of the "the Curse of Canaan". But it's not biblical. So what I'm saying is' date=' maybe Lincoln was a bad man and maybe the War wasn't fought over slavery but ,Southern folk sure did a whole lot of mistreating after it was over.[/quote']

Yes, I've heard similar remarks and slurs. From the pulpit of an IFB in Virginia, "Nothing any cuter than a little piglet or a little niglet." That pastor has since been removed from the office God appointed him. He is now a missionary to a predominantly black nation. Amazing how God works.

I'm still an IFB.

I'm not promoting any organizations below but, they provide some interesting numbers:

Fugitive Slave Act (a compromise to quiet seccession talk by southern states).
Deuteronomy 23:15 Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee:
Deuteronomy 23:16 He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him.

Slaves Today.

Slavery and servitude, that is unwilling servitude and slavery, are legal in the Bible. Slavery is unlawful today in all but the most backward nations.

According to Anti-Slavery International, the world's oldest human rights organization, there are currently over 20 million people in bondage.

The slave trade in Africa was officially banned in the early 1880s, but forced labor continues to be practiced in West and Central Africa today. UNICEF estimates that 200,000 children from this region are sold into slavery each year.

I wonder...no scripture to back it up but...Why did God have to make laws for men who had slaves or unwilling servants?

[JerryNumbers]

Yes, and state and personal rights just keep disappearing.

Our government is good about blackmailing a state into doing what they say it much do.

I know to, many times local school boards have no choice either.

You mentions federal republic, but seems its evolving into a federal dictatorship.

In one way I'm surprised so many have seems raciest things in Baptist Churches, but yet in another way its not surprising.

We had a member that could have been raciest with a little encouragement, but she has since died.

[PastorHarrison]

I know of several popular churches in the south where blacks are welcome to visit but then encouraged on down the road to a black church - the basis being to avoid creating an atmosphere of more "mingled people" (which is negatively presented throughout scripture).

I was in one which informed me that it would be expected that as Pastor, I should encourage blacks to seek an alternative place to assemble (needless to say I blew that out of the pulpit and wasn't invited back lol).

A few I know don't welcome blacks or any other non-european Japeth race due to previous bad experiences with inter-racial unions forming and the subsequent desire to avoid unequal yokes. Some would say thats racist, the pastors say thats Biblical, the members say if you don't like it move along, ....onlookers say its hateful....the churches themselves don't care particularly what any race thinks about it. Some say the years when the gentile couldn't be saved is a demonstration of God being racist.

For me, I can't look at any man (no matter what color God made him) and not feel a burden to see him saved! No matter what your views are of the races and their places in the world and in history - Salvation is blood red.

[deafnva77]

The only thing I ever heard is that people don't believe in mixed race marriages (just people, not my church pastors). And that some people leave churches or even community because the possibility of mix race marriage.

And that the name Ham means black. But that was taught in mormon churches as well at one time.

[1Timothy115]

I know of several popular churches in the south where blacks are welcome to visit but then encouraged on down the road to a black church - the basis being to avoid creating an atmosphere of more "mingled people" (which is negatively presented throughout scripture).

I was in one which informed me that it would be expected that as Pastor, I should encourage blacks to seek an alternative place to assemble (needless to say I blew that out of the pulpit and wasn't invited back lol).

A few I know don't welcome blacks or any other non-european Japeth race due to previous bad experiences with inter-racial unions forming and the subsequent desire to avoid unequal yokes. Some would say thats racist, the pastors say thats Biblical, the members say if you don't like it move along, ....onlookers say its hateful....the churches themselves don't care particularly what any race thinks about it. Some say the years when the gentile couldn't be saved is a demonstration of God being racist.

For me, I can't look at any man (no matter what color God made him) and not feel a burden to see him saved! No matter what your views are of the races and their places in the world and in history - Salvation is blood red.

Some say the years when the gentile couldn't be saved is a demonstration of God being racist.

I have some trouble with this statement. Were persons like Noah gentiles?

[Guest Guest]

Were persons like Noah gentiles?

Well, he was before the Jews existed. I don't really think that was what he was talking about. However, God had many provisions for the "stranger" in the Jewish law, they could become part of the Jewish nation if they so desired. There are a great many biblical examples of this. Ruth the moabite, Rahab the canaanite, Uriah the hittite, etc.

[heartstrings]

Well, he was before the Jews existed. I don't really think that was what he was talking about. However, God had many provisions for the "stranger" in the Jewish law, they could become part of the Jewish nation if they so desired. There are a great many biblical examples of this. Ruth the moabite, Rahab the canaanite, Uriah the hittite, etc.

Don't forget the termites and the dust mites
(just something our Bible teacher always says when he comes to the "ites")

[heartstrings]

God has never been a racist. Gentiles could be and WERE saved in the OT
Nebuchadnezzar was a Babylonian, Namaan was Syrian, Ruth was a Moabite
Then you have God sending Jonah to preach to the city of Nineveh (Assyrians)