Do Children who die automatically go to Heaven?

[irishman]

But isn't rejection of Christ what sends us to Hell? I know we are all sinners - I'm not arguing that - but isn't it the sin of rejecting Christ that actually consigns us to Hell?

We are all headed for Hell, because we are all born sinners - and we turn that around by accepting Christ. We continue on the path to Hell by rejecting Him. But...a baby, or a child who has not reached the age where he or she really knows the difference between right and wrong - how are they actually rejecting Christ? If they are not cognizant of the need for Him, how can they make a choice?

Happy, is it the rejection of Christ, or the fact that they do not accept Him as Savior? They are actually one in the same. John81 makes a valid point, and I reiterate my point, what of the primitive tribes in New Guinea? Or in the jungles of South America, etc? What about the early American Indians, do they all get a free pass because they have never had occasion to reject Christ? They knew by nature that there is a "higher power" but they failed to recognize the Lord (Jesus) as that power--hence, the reason for missionaries. I don't know the answer to this delimma, but God does, and if He does not reveal it to us, we are left to conjecture and human reasoning, which we both know is futile and worthless.

[Wilchbla]

Wilch, I had thought of this too, but in Romans 2 it says that they are a "law unto themselves" and we would have to define that phrase before we could make an honest conjecture. Romans 2 says that those that have sinned without the law shall perish without the law

Those who have "sinned without the law" are not babies or little children, they are Gentiles who are aware of this law in their hearts (conscience). Paul was contrasting the Gentiles who didn't receive the law with the Jews who recieved the written laws, he wasn't comparing babies with the adults. Anotherwards, the Gentiles can't say they didn't know because God wrote it on their hearts but this awareness or knowledge doesn't occur in the very young. A young child doesn't have sin IMPUTED to them even if they sin because they have no knowledge of good and evil. Therefore they are innocent like Adam and Eve until they become aware of the difference. This would probably apply to some mentally retarded, etc. too. It's all about conscience towards God. That's why you read of a good conscience towards God throughout the NT.

[Wilchbla]

This is part of the reasoning behind infant baptism. The parents take an oath to raise the infant to know Christ. The infant is then baptize, which symbolizes the washing away original sin. When the child comes to the age of reasoning, he must confirm in his own heart the oath taken by his parents. If he does so, he obtains the remission of sin which comes with salvation. Please don't interpret this comment to mean that I believe that all who die as infants who are unbaptized go to hell. I think this is a very tough question that scripture doesn't specifically address. Should we use some of the other tools God gave us in addition to scripture? Maybe our ability to reason?

Hogwash. There is nothing in the passage about infant baptism. It is so simple it's clear as day. If you have the knowledge of good and evil, as Adam and Eve, then you are innocent. Once you receive this knowledge, then as Paul said, "I died". The Gentiles have this knowledge in their hearts and the Jews had them written down. But a baby and most young children don't have this knowledge. Therefore, sin is not imputed to them. Goodness, folks, I hope you don't have God tossing babies into hell when they die.

[Wilchbla]

Wilchbla, that is the common thinking, but does it contradict the fact that all men are born in sin, and that we are sinners from day one?

Yes, all men are born is sin, as is apparent by the fact that all men die. But sin is not IMPUTED to someone who can't discern between good and evil. Once the commandment came, as Paul said, he died. A baby is innocent of sin even though he/she is a sinner. Try explaining the 10 commandments to a baby. At what point in time this knowledge or awareness comes to a person probably depends on the individual themselves. I seemed to have some sense of right and wrong towards God when I was about five but the first time I really understood what sin was occured when I was about 12.

[ptwild]

Hogwash. There is nothing in the passage about infant baptism. It is so simple it's clear as day. If you have the knowledge of good and evil, as Adam and Eve, then you are innocent. Once you receive this knowledge, then as Paul said, "I died". The Gentiles have this knowledge in their hearts and the Jews had them written down. But a baby and most young children don't have this knowledge. Therefore, sin is not imputed to them. Goodness, folks, I hope you don't have God tossing babies into hell when they die.

No one said there was. Are you suggesting that we are not born with original sin? Are we not all born on a path to hell? If not, then why the need to evangelize those who are ignorant of Christ?

[JerryNumbers]

It always amazes me on how much we Baptist can disagree on many Bible issues.

I firmly believe that the baby, until it reaches the age of accountability, that is understands they're lost, that Jesus did die for them on the cross to paying for their sins, confess their sins, and accept Jesus as Savior, that they will not be doomed to hell. Seems the reason to believe this has been covered very good.

Amazing to me are those who think they can baptize a person that has not reached the age of accountability and it will saved that person from hell if they die before they reach the age of accountability.

But does not the Catholics and the churches of Christ teach that all infants are born without the original sin, that each person falls when they commit their first sin. That is they deny that sin is passed on to each person through their father.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:19 (KJV)

[John81]

A lot of preachers, along with things like the Left Behind series, teaches that when the Rapture occurs all children will be raptured along with the saints. Their reasoning for this is the same given for why they claim that all children who die prior to some unspecified age of accountibility automatically go to heaven.

Does Scripture indicate that anyone other than saints alive on earth and the dead saints will partake of the Rapture?

If the premil Rapture is what occurs then that means there will yet be about 7 years for those left behind to accept or reject Christ...of those who live out the 7 years. Given that, a person of 10 at the time of the Rapture could have up to 7 years to come to Christ.

Most children over the years I've encountered knew at a young age stealing was wrong, hurting others, murder, lying, sex outside marriage, etc., were all wrong.

What about the idea that God will place those who died as children upon the earth during the Thousand Year Reign? I've heard it proposed they will be placed on earth still as children and I've heard it suggested they will be placed on earth as young adults.

God is righteous and perfect and whatever the truth turns out to be we can't rightly argue against it because if the children do get an automatic pass to heaven then God is right; if God cast them into hell (whether as children or aged into adulthood) then God is right; or if God returns them to earth in some manner so they can accept or reject Christ then God is right; or if Christ speaks to them in the grave so they can understand and they can then accept or reject Christ and go to heaven or hell then God is right.

We know God is holy and His ways are not our ways. We know God is holy and just. I don't think the questions asked here in any way question this, they have just been brought up to see what we can determine directly from Scripture on these matters.

[trc123]

There be many that just don't want to take God's Word at what it says, "2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David knew he would see the little one again, David was going to be with God. Believe it or not, God's Word says it. It is a shame to have such negative doubts when God's inspired Word says something.

[John81]

There be many that just don't want to take God's Word at what it says, "2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David knew he would see the little one again, David was going to be with God. Believe it or not, God's Word says it. It is a shame to have such negative doubts when God's inspired Word says something.

That still leaves us with who has the right interpretation of this verse. Is David saying he will go to his son in heaven or is David simply saying he will follow his son to the grave one day?

As well, we are not to build a doctrine or belief upon one verse of Scripture, so what other verse(s) support (or possibly negate) either view...or is there another view?

[Lest some take my questions the wrong way, I'll state here that my asking questions in this thread has nothing to do with doubt or my believing one way or another. At this time I'm trying to follow what the OP was about from another thread; and that is what does Scripture say.]

[bgann4546]

[From another thread]

Where do we read that infants are given a "special grace," and all of them go to heaven if they die as a child? I have heard/believed this, but isn't it sort of reading between the lines? In the O.T. they were told to wipe out entire families of those that had sinned (Achan for example). Some say this is because they are going to be brought up in heathensim and "follow in their parents footsteps" (the "sins of the father"...).

I wonder why the children were not allowed to enter the ark (Noah's ark) which is a picture of salvation?

In the O.T. they were told to wipe out entire families of those that had sinned (Achan for example). Some say this is because they are going to be brought up in heathensim and "follow in their parents footsteps" (the "sins of the father"...).


Not the case when reading from Ezekiel.

Ekekiel 18:20

The soul sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

An interesting read entitled "Children in Heaven" ....."The Infant Dead Redeemed by the Lord Jesus", can be read online, here's the link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=64YUAAAAYAAJ&dq=children+in+heaven&printsec=frontcover&source=bll&ots=gCgy8pZdgS&sig=0KBM-NgyR-HAc9ihvdMS-gzpoNs&hl=en&ei=yH-RSoqdBIL8tgfRro3PBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=17#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[bgann4546]

http://books.google.com/books?id=64YUAAAAYAAJ&dq=children+in+heaven&printsec=frontcover&source=bll&ots=gCgy8pZdgS&sig=0KBM-NgyR-HAc9ihvdMS-gzpoNs&hl=en&ei=yH-RSoqdBIL8tgfRro3PBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=17#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[JerryNumbers]

There be many that just don't want to take God's Word at what it says, "2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." David knew he would see the little one again, David was going to be with God. Believe it or not, God's Word says it. It is a shame to have such negative doubts when God's inspired Word says something.

&

Plain as day light for whosoever will accept it.

[HappyChristian]

&

Plain as day light for whosoever will accept it.

I agree with this! If David wasn't sure in his belief that he would see his son again, I really doubt that he would have quit grieving! David knew that he himself was going to heaven...the Psalms indicate that well...so I have a real hard time thinking David would just have meant that they were both going to the grave.

[John81]

I agree with this! If David wasn't sure in his belief that he would see his son again, I really doubt that he would have quit grieving! David knew that he himself was going to heaven...the Psalms indicate that well...so I have a real hard time thinking David would just have meant that they were both going to the grave.

I'm absolutely not say I don't agree with this, but if this is what David is saying where is the Scripture which supports this? We can't form a doctrine or solid view based upon one verse. Scripture supports Scripture. What verse or verses support the interpretation that this verse is referring to David knowing he will see his child in heaven.

On a personal note, with regards to death and grieving: My Mom died in 2002 and I'm not sure if she was saved or not. Even so, I didn't carry on grieving because I know once a person has died there is no more we can do and whatever their eternal destination is, it's set as far as I know.

Also, what David was doing prior to his son dying was more about pleading for the life of the child rather than grieving...although he was certainly grieving in the process. Once the child died, just as David said, there was nothing more he could do or hope for. Continued pleading with God about the matter would be pointless. Wallowing in grief would be pointless. Once the child died, it was time to rise up and step forward on the path of righteousness. That's how I handled the passing of my Mom. Most certainly I was sad, but I didn't halt my life.

[HappyChristian]

I understand what you're saying - but I wasn't saying he'd wallow in grief. I still have moments of grieving for my grandfather who died over 10 years ago.

I know you're not disagreeing with it, John. And I agree that we can't build a hard and fast doctrine on one verse alone. But that verse is in there for a reason - and David showed us through the Psalms that he knew he was headed for heaven. I realize it's an extrapolation, but if he knew he was headed for heaven, and he said he would go to his child, seems to me that supports it!