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irishman

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by irishman

  1. irishman

    Big Foot

    The Chicago Bars just hired :"big foot" for their star kicker!
  2. irishman

    A Lack Of Knowledge Is Killing Us!

    Hosea 4 “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” (v. 6) I thank God that He gave the New Testament church a special promise; that he would never leave us nor forsake us (Heb. 13: 5 c), which is an indirect quote from Joshua 1: 5. Our God is “there” for us all the time. The first part of this is still true today, (of course) we are destroyed for lack of knowledge. We do not hear enough “truth” and when we do, we do no believe it easily. We need to be convinced. God’s Word is truth, from the beginning to the end; it is true all the way through, word by word in the King James Bible, so that that Book is all we need of truth. Yet, God’s people die because of a lack of knowing it. Sure, we all die anyway, but there are several promises in the Bible for longevity and God cannot lie or trick us by deceit, if only we would believe His Word, the people of God would not, and could not be destroyed. To have the Lord reject us would lead to very dire consequences, and we would be “of all men, most miserable”. As the Lord withdrew Himself from Israel at times, He has promised never to do so with us. Heb. 13 :5, the latter part, tells us so, and we can believe it, and rest assured that it is so. What a joy to know that He will never leave us for a moment, nor forsake us altogether; we can walk in the assurance of His eternal presence. In Israel, God withdrew Himself from them for the purpose of judgment; He removed His blessings from them. They were disOBedient to His Word, and He had to turn from them, just as they had from Him, but, thank God today for Jesus, He is the King of grace unto us. Grace allows God to remain with us, for Jesus’ sake, and continue to abide in us, in spite of our foolishness. He does not condone our sin, nor accept it in any way, but He allows us to continue in Him, and He in us. He no longer needs to judge us, that has been taken care of at Calvary, but now He is there to comfort; to guide; to bless us in a multitude of ways, for Jesus’ sake, and only for Jesus’ sake. It is not because of us, but because of Jesus that He does so; we would do well to remember that. Take comfort in the fact the our Lord will never, ever leave us, no, not for a second, but mostly, thank God that he will never abandon us altogether and leave us to perish in the pits of hell forever. I shudder to think of what life might be like if He ever decided to leave us, and turn His back on our sin and grief. Thank God mightily for the King of grace, Jesus Christ, by whom is the promise given unto us.
  3. irishman

    Kisses

    Kisses “And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.” (Gen. 27:26) A kiss is usually an outward expression of love. There are many “kisses” in the Bible (in 19 verses) that speak of the character of man. I offer a few of them in this document. 1. The kiss of affection: In the verse I selected, the first “kiss” in the Bible, JacOB greets his beloved son with a kiss. He seems to know there is something amiss, but blesses JacOB anyway, instead of Esau. Though deceptive on JacOB’s part, the kiss was an expression of affection by Isaac. A kiss can speak of many diabolical deceptions, and it can be a gesture of endearment, and love, it can go both ways. 2. The kiss of deception: In 2 Samuel 20:9 we read; “And Joab said to Amasa, Art thou in health, my brother? And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand to kiss him.” This is a very diabolical and subtle kiss, with evil intent. To kiss in this manner, or to feign to do so, speaks of trust and companionship to the one, but evil is the motive of the other. This kiss betrays trust and catches the unwary victim by subtlety. 3. The kiss of allegiance and loyalty: Though used metaphorically, we have another type of kiss which speaks; “Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.” (1 Kings 19:18) This is where Elijah sought refuge in the Lord because of Jezebel. Though he seemed despondent, the Lord assured him that He had seven thousand faithful followers in Jerusalem, that had “kissed” the Lord, and not Baal. 4. The kiss of faith: This is also a kiss of loyalty and love. Again we see the word “kiss” used metaphorically, as an act of endearment, but aimed in the right direction. The verse I refer to is Psa. 2:12: “Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.” To “kiss the Son (note the capital “S”) is to draw close to Jesus; it is to hold Him in our heart, and admire Him greatly in our thoughts, and it speaks of intimacy with our Lord, without which we have nothing. 5. The kiss of reward and appreciation: “Every man shall kiss his lips that giveth a right answer.” (Prov. 24:26) Again we see the metaphor for kiss. The word “kiss” seems to speak many different “languages“, and apply many different ways. Men respect an honest man whether they admit it or not. They may never let him know it, but they respect his honesty and openness, it is natural to do so. Most likely, the man that gives a right answer will be upright in his affairs, he will be honest in business. 6. The kiss of betrayal: “Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.” (Mt. 26:48) The kisses of a false friend hurt deeply when he is discovered; they pierce us to the heart, and cause much consternation in our life, yet they are more common, I think, than we realize. Jesus asked Judas a convicting question: “But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?” (Lk. 22:48). One wonders how low we can go when betrayal is our goal? Perhaps it was more than the money, the thirty pieces of silver, which amounted to quite a sum for them, perhaps it was a deep-seated evil a love for the world--Satan’s world, hidden deep within his heart. Betrayal on any level is evil; whether in marriage, in business, or in societal matters, their always seems to be an ulterior motive. 7. The kiss of salutation: Five verses, the last five in the Bible that contain the word “kiss” speak of greeting “one another with a holy kiss” (Rom. 16:16); or 1 Cor. 16:20~2 Cor. 13:12~1 Thess. 5:26, each of these say essentially the same thing but the last mention of “kiss” changes just a bit: “Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.” (1 Pet. 5:14) A “kiss of charity“, of brotherly love; of giving to the need of a brother. Charity means the same thing it means today, loving enough to see to the needs of others. This too is a wonderful and kindly and God-like kiss.
  4. irishman

    The Church

    The invincible church “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Mt. 18:16) Did Christ die for the church, or for the work of the church? We must ponder that question in our hearts, each one of us. He came and ministered unto men as an example of our work as a Christian, but did he die for the work? Those who are “church builders” would be interested to know. We see an invincible church, and not an invisible church. In Matt. 16:18, He told Peter “…Upon this Rock I will build my church…” and for ages, good men have asked “What Rock is Jesus speaking of?” My friends, we have all heard different ideas as to what this means, but letting the Bible explain itself is always the interpretation. In the verses previous to this, we see the answer as to what is “The rock?” It begins in verse 13, where Jesus questions the disciples as to who he is. Peter responds with a wonderful answer, and a great truth for each of us to remember: “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. “ (Mt. 16: 16) My friends, this is the rock that Christ built his church on, that Christ is the Son of the Living God. It is built on principle, and not on persons. The fact that Christ is the Son of God, yea, God Himself, is our Rock; it is as solid as you can get. The winds of time, trials, or tempests will not prevail against it, because it is built on a rock. That, my friends, is what the church is built on. There are 79 references to the church in the New testament, and all but a few were written to a local church; this includes the seven churches of Asia, in the Book of Revelation. A few of those seventy-nine churches were spoken of before the day of Pentecost, including the common passage we use for church discipline in Mt. 18 17. What did Christ mean when He said to take it before the church? The church was not established at Pentecost. The Inception of the Church The dispensationalist says that when Christ said “Upon this rock will I build my church”, that He meant He would build it (future tenses) at Pentecost. They focus on the words “will I” being a future act, which it was, partially. The church was not yet established, but at Calvary He also said “It is finished”, meaning that work which he set out to do, which could include the building of His church. To claim Pentecost as the inception of the church is a haphazard guess at most; we do not know for sure when the church actually was finished, although we do know from Scripture, that it began with Christ. As I have already stated, Mt. 16:18 was a future event at the time Jesus spoke it. He could not have built His church before the redemption of man at Calvary lest it be built of unbelievers! “Pentecost” means “fifty”, or, some say “fifty days” which we believe took place fifty days after Christ’s resurrection. If the church did not come into being until Pentecost where was the body of Christ for those fifty days? Where was the “bride” of Christ? There would have to be a gap of fifty days in the building of the church to make that possible. No, the church was “born” at Calvary, when Christ said “It is finished” so was the foundation of the church. What gives the dispensationalist the right to predict when the church began at Pentecost just because it was a future event? They apply it to Pentecost, with no scriptural support, except that there was “added to the church daily such as should be saved” (Acts 2: 47); you cannot add to something until it already exists! The church needed to precede Pentecost before it could be “added to”. It does not take much thinking to realize that the church had to come into being sometime between Mt. 16:18 and Acts 2; the greatest event in history took place between these times--Calvary. I believe that the church was finished at Calvary, and in full swing going into the Book of Acts. In Acts, men added to the church, but the church itself was already established on Christ and Calvary. The work of men was not finished as of yet, but it was “in the making” in the Book of Acts. This is where the controversy lies, I believe, in the establishment of the church according to mans view of it. Mans work in, and on the church is never done until we all get to glory, but the foundation has been laid, and the true church has been built, on the precept that “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Two verse later, Jesus told Him that He would build His church on this--the rock of truth, and the fact that Jesus is the Christ, Son of the living God. A universal, invisible church has no shepherd. A church must have a leader. Someone must step up and take the reins, and God has seen to it that it will be so. He provided men for the task; men of His choosing, pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc. (Eph. 4:11) for the edifying of the church. Without a shepherd we are as sheep having no shepherd. Isa. 53:6 comes to mind: “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.” Without a shepherd, we have chaos, and anarchy; we will have “turned every one to his own way”, and found the way of destruction. Where is the leader of the “invisible” church? Who can lead them as one body? (See Acts 28:28) A church must have unity How can a universal, invisible church be one unit? They do not have fellowship with one another; they have no inkling of the existence of the other, no personal communication or communion; they cannot be “one body in Christ”. the arm may be in one place, and the leg in another; the nose may be sniffing out souls, but the feet are not led to go to them. Even though one may sow and another may water, they are not unified in the effort, they are as one person doing whatever suits them. An invisible church has no authority: Again, who is the leader of the invisible church? Name him if you can. God has established authority, and set guidelines for us to follow within the confines of His will, but the universal church has no one to unify them, none to exercise authority over them. You are prOBably thinking, “they answer only to God“, but I again remind you that each man will do “that which is right in his own sight“, and there will be chaos. There are some though who supposed themselves to be members of this “mystery” church, and we can read about them in Matthew 7; 22: “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” Jesus attests that He "never knew them". The epistles were written to local churches--real churches that were active in their community. Theses “local” churches, are local to their own vicinity; they are not a universal nor invisible church of all believers everywhere, because all believers everywhere are already the true church! The Body of Christ is wide spread, but not everyone who claims to be “of the body” can rightly say they are of “the church”. If all we did was ask the Lord to save us, then we could have an invisible universal church, but we must ask, believing. Truly the Bible says that “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Rom. 10:13), but isn’t that preceded by vs. 9-10 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.? Are there not many who, perhaps, had fooled themselves into thinking they were saved? Of course there are! (Mt. 7:22). These examples in Matthew have even prophesied in Christ’s name; they have cast out devils, which seems to be a privilege of the elect of God, and done “many wonderful works”, but they did not have the heart for Christ. Though they shined as premier Christians among the brethren for their works, they were lost, and Christ had to tell them to depart from Him, attesting that He never knew them. They were not of the church. They no doubt could have furnished witnesses to great deeds they did; no doubt they had a time that they verbally called upon the name of the Lord, but they had an evil heart of unbelief which no man could see. They were not a part of the church; the universal church could claim them, because it has no shepherd; it could claim them because it has no authority; it could claim them because they had met the qualifications of the “church”, but they were lost, they were not of the true church. The Unified Church What is the church? The “Body of Christ” (1 Cor. 12:27) The “Bride of Christ” The “House of God”. (1 Tim. 3:15) The “General assembly” (Heb. 12:23) One body (Rom. 12:5) (1 Cor. 12:20) Who makes up the church? Believers. All believers, everywhere. (1 Cor. 12:13, 14) Jewish believers in Christ (Eph. 2:16) Facts to consider: 79 mentions of “church” in the New testament; Nearly the entire New testament speaks of local churches; Almost all the Epistles were written to local assemblies. Church is “in God” and “In Christ“ (1 Thess. 1:1 and 2Thess. 1:1) “Church” means “called out assembly”; (assembly can also be translated as “church”) The church is the “Pillar and ground of the Truth” (1 Tim. 3:15) Churches sometimes met in houses; (Philemon 1:2) --Out in the open; (Acts 7:38) --In regular buildings. (Rev. Chapters 2,3) Church established before Pentecost. (Mt. 16: 18) The church had to exist before Pentecost, else there was no church between the crucifixion and the introduction of the Holy Spirit. Twice Christ mentions the church during His earthly ministry, (Mt. 16:18 and 18:17) and goes as far as establishing the order for discipline in the New Testament church. (Spoken in present tense). Every church was a “local assembly”. “Unto the church of God which is at Corinth”…1 Cor. 1:2~ 2 Cor 1:1 “Unto the churches of Galatia”…Gal. 1:2, and etc. Seven churches of revelation, etc. Every church has a shepherd: (Eph. 4:11) They are as sheep which have no shepherd, scattered and confused. They have no leadership, no authority. There must be authority in the church, for it is God-ordained. Every church has ordinances: Who does the Baptizing in the “invisible” church? Who takes the communion supper, and who passes it out?
  5. irishman

    Presenting The Gospel

    Define "Gospel". A clear presentation of the Gospel is important, it ought to contain several important facts; 1. The subject should know that “all people are lost” (Rom. 3:10; 3:23) This puts them into a group, and does not single them out accusingly. They must realize their need for salvation before they will be saved. 2. All people need to be saved. (Rom. 6:23a and 5:12)) I always have them agree that “no one is perfect”. I have never had anyone disagree since I used that approach. They have been offended, however, that I insinuated that they were sinners; generally, people do not think themselves to be too bad. Just as wages are paid for a days work, sin has earned a wage--death. (spiritual as well as physical) Explain it to them. 3 All people are saved the same way. (Rom. 6:23b) (Rom 5;12 could be used here too, you decide.) Only Jesus can forgive their sin. (Explain how He died for them, and took their punishment upon Himself. Then rose again the third day…etc.) Interject Rom 5:8 in there showing them that Christ died specifically for mankind. 4. YOU can be saved today. (Rom. 10:9,10) “Whosoever” includes everyone. Won’t you call upon Jesus to save you today? There are various salvation plans that are effective. The main thing is telling them the Gospel. Some people like to use John 3:16, and other verses, but the result is hopefully salvation. A word about repentance: it has been long disputed, (and will no doubt continue to be), whether we should encourage them to repent of their sin before they call upon the Lord for salvation, but at the time they decide to trust Christ as their Savior, they have a change of heart, and that is repentance. The Gospel is what saves men, and repentance may not be considered the Gospel per se.
  6. irishman

    “Heroes”?

    “All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. “ (Eccl. 3:20) “Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?” (Eccl. 6: 6) Both of these verses teach us an important truth, that death is the same for all men. The “great ones” that we exalt in sports today, those who have given their lives and hearts to the game, even they will ultimately end up in the same place as the sluggard and the slouch. Though they may spend hours away from their families, and sacrifice many meals and much quality time with friends and loved ones, they will have the same end as those who did not sacrifice any of these things. It is all vanity. Though many enjoy fame and fortune for a time, and give their “all” for success in business or in sports, or whatever they wish to excel in, they all end in the same grave, and all turn to mere dust. Greatness only lasts for awhile when it is OBtained by worldly means. Riches give us a little respect here on earth, and often gain the envy of others, but what are they when death comes our way? Can you see the futility of these things? Do you see the irony of it? Solomon did. He knew it was all “vanity and vexation of the spirit.” It almost seems unfair that those who excel so much, who give their entire lives to success, should end up the same as those who did nothing, but that is the way it is when we build our hope on the things of this world and not on Christ. Though many of these athletes or millionaires, or even soldiers are thought of as “heroes” they die the same as the pauper and the coward. No matter what contribution they made to society, or what they had achieved, they build their houses on sand, and it does not stand against the storm. They live in a house of paper, and the foundation is as unstable as the waves of the sea. The only thing that really matters is whether they know Christ as their Savior or not. The saint who dies in Christ is assured of a happy “forever”. His end is not as futile as theirs, he has treasure untold, and CAN take it with him. Our “heroes” ought to be men and women of God that spiritually “move mountains” in the Lord’s work, and make a real difference in the lives of others. They do not have to all be preachers, but faithful servants unto whom the Lord will say “Well done thou good and faithful servant.” Any one of us can hear those words from the lips of our Savior; then we will be “heroes” indeed. Let’s make our “heroes” those who seek the Lord with the same tenacity that the sports figures, politicians, and all those others seek after their goal, and we will share in the fame and glory of God and men.
  7. irishman

    Jonah 3

    So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. (v. 5) Jonah was sent with a particular message to a particular people. One must be careful to always speak that which the Lord gives them, nothing less, and nothing more. Remember, it was the Word that Jonah preached that brought repentance, and not the man himself, or his delivery. We put too much stock in methods! The Lord cautioned him to preach the “preaching that I bid thee” (v.2) and Jonah was careful to say exactly that. We do not know all that God told him, but he did tell them that they would be destroyed shortly, in forty days. It was a message of doom. The Bible says that the people of Nineveh “believed God” and repented. Folks, men always were saved by faith. Their faith led them to repentance. Look at how they prayed “mightily unto God” and turned from their wicked ways, (2 Chron. 7:14), and found mercy in the eyes of the Lord: But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. (v. 8) These folks were serious in their repentance! Not only did they pray, but they also fasted. Now I am not sure how potent a forced fast is with the Lord, but He seems to have honored the faith of the people each time a public fast was proclaimed. True fasting seems to contain a certain element of sorrow. Always when we see a people fasting in the Bible, it is not for wisdom, or financial needs, but for sorrow of heart. It is the sorrowful heart that compels a compassionate God to move on our behalf. Nineveh was definitely sorrowful to think that they would all be destroyed in forty days, but they were also afraid. Great fear compels great fasting, and prayer unto our Great God. Any time we read about “sackcloth” the theme is great sorrow. In foreign countries when the king was sorrowful, the entire country was to be sorrowful; when he fasted, the people fasted, whether they understood the prOBlem or not. Though I do no like to compare the preacher to the king, when he proclaims a fast, we all need to participate. He is our leader in spiritual things.
  8. irishman

    The King James Bible

    The Bible “What a Book is the Bible in the mere matter of variety of contents! Everything seems to be in it . . . poem, narrative, intelligence, judgment, battle, prayer, song, anathema, and benediction.” “It might be added that it deals with themes moral, philosophical, astronomical, biological, ethical, legal, dramatic, prophetic, historic, poetic, and romantic. “Continuing this line of thought I am reminded of an unknown writer's contribution which is very comprehensive. He says, in the Bible we read of the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, and the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. “Its doctrine is holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. “Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. “It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. “It is the traveler’s map; the pilgrim's staff; the pilot's compass; the soldier's sword; and the Christian's charter. “Here heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. “Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. “It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. “Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. “It is a mine of wealth, health to the soul, and a river of pleasure. “It is given to you here in this life, will be opened at the judgment, and will be established forever. “It involves the highest responsibility, and will reward the greatest labor, and condemn all who trifle with its contents.” It is the very Word of God. --anonymous
  9. irishman

    Thanks!

    I would lkke to thank all who have prayed for me for a liver transplant. The Lord miraculously provide a liver for me, and I am doing well. I am out of the woods yet, completely, and now have a limited lifestyle, but thank God, I am still kicking!
  10. irishman

    Jail ministry

    We recently had 5 saved at the County Jail, and 1 at the state prison--Praise the Lord! I often hear of one/some being saved in prison. I know about "jailhouse religion" and that some think it will help their case, but the Lord knows who is truly saved, and who is not...for that matter, we do not no if the people we write to on this forum are saved, for sure. I only know that I am, and I take your word for it that you are. Anyway, maybe a few inmates have begun a new life. I have quit the Jail ministry because of a stand on the KJB, but I still like to keep abreast of it. The "Rock of Ages" prison ministry has missionaries all over, one at our church, and they go to the state prisons, while several of the laymen go to the County Jail; it can be quite a blessing.
  11. to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. A time ti be born, and a time to die;...

  12. irishman

    Jerrynumbers?

    I feel the same way Jerry does, and refuse to post anymore here, although I do the "what's on your mind" thing. (I guess I just did post!!)
  13. praise the Lord.

    1. EKSmith

      EKSmith

      Yes Praise Him for He is the Great and wonderful father whom loves us' Praise the Lord

  14. circumcision was for the O.T; Tattoo's were forbidden in the O.T., so why do we deny tihing which also began in the O.T.?

    1. John81

      John81

      Circumcision and tithing were both OT commands for the Jews. Neither were carried over into the NT for Christians.

    2. ASongOfDegrees

      ASongOfDegrees

      Tithing was practiced before the law by the "father of us all".

    3. John81

      John81

      That doesn't matter as far as commands for NT Christians go. NT Christians are commanded to give without compulsion. We are told to give cheerfully and abundantly. The NT examples shows Christians giving sacrificially.

  15. He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich. Prov. 10:4

  16. A smile is the same in any language

  17. irishman

    The Electronic Bible

    This past Sunday in church, I could not find the Book of Jonah, which was the reference that the preacher wanted us to turn to! Now, I have studied the Bible for about 40 years, diligently, and (almost) daily, and I know the books of the bible very well, but my wife had to find Jonah for me. I know that it is partly because of my condition, but I also attribute it to the electronic Bible on my computer. I don't have to look up the book anymore with that, simply go quickly down a list and click it on! Too easy. I (should I say "we") need to get back to that "old black Book" and flip the pages again. I miss doing that anyway. I have 19 Bibles in my home (and not ONE of them is a MV.) and they simply decorate my bookcase. I alternate them occasionally, but some I hardly ever use. The thing is, it seems so different to relax in my chair (a "lazy boy) and read from the Bible, but I find that I enjoy it much more that way. Something about tradition, I suppose. That incident at church has happened before, as the ammonia in my blood destroys brain cells, but I saw it coming anyway, and was just too lazy to get back to "Book learning", but not frequently, thank the Lord. Anyway, I file a valid indictment against my electronic Bible, and charge it with robbing me of a special blessing by alluring me back to the ease and "quickness" it offers. Maybe it is something for each of us to think about. Remember spreading the books out on the table, and flipping through the pages, and enjoying hours of time with the Word of God? I do, and I miss it terribly.
  18. irishman

    The Tithe

    The Tithe (13 references in the Bible) Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. I suppose, when it comes to discussing the tithe, that we must start at the beginning. In Gen 14, we see two things that should be of interest to us: 1. That Melchizedek initiated the “bread and wine” of communion in honor of Abraham. 2. That Abraham gave a tithe of all that he had taken, lest some claim to have favored Abraham, and made him rich through the tithe. The “tithe” in Gen. 14 was given in response to the communion of victory that Melchizedek initiated. It was also in response to the blessing that Melchizedek bestowed upon him. The picture here is that the Lord blesses us, and we give to him that which we know He has given to us! It seems, to the human mind, a bit redundant to give from what He gives us, but the beauty of the whole scene is the communion that we have with Christ. The Lord shows, in many ways, that a little bit can do a lot when it is given with a pure heart. So, here one might see the establishment of the tithe, and the “why” behind it. Everything the Lord does has reason, and that includes the tithe. Sometimes the reason is for teaching; sometimes it is for celebration (as here); and sometimes it for reasons perhaps unknown to us, but not without merit. The tithe was for Israel, God’s chosen people. It was an important part of their worship, showing that God is greater than man, and is worthy of all our attentions. This is the first reference to the tithe in the Bible. It foreshadowed things to come in the structure of the church. The next reference is in Leviticus 27:30: Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. Here we find that God has sanctified the tithe, and “It is holy”. Abraham seems to have impressed God greatly with the tithe, and the Lord adapted it into His law; it remains a tribute to the righteousness of God, and the subjection of man to His will. Verse 32 carries it a little further: Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. The tithe covered everything that is important to man, the fruit of the land, and the wealth of the livestock. It becomes a sacrifice. Mans sustenance, all that he has, (Gen. 14:20) was what the Lord has allowed him, and the tithe the Lord kept for Himself. Some refute the tithe because our God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and He has no need of a tithe, but in so doing, they question the veracity of the Lord, and His Word, and dishonor Him by holding back that which is holy unto Him. Though they tithed of crops and livestock, our culture today tithes of monetary gain, as well as the proper stewardship of all we have. In Numbers 18:26 we have another reference to the tithe: “Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.” First, we have here an explanation of what the tithe was for. God had given it to the Levites instead of an inheritance in Israel. He demanded a tithe from the people, and passed it on to the Levites, much of what we do today in the church. Remember the Old Testament was a shadow of things to come, it was a picture of God dealing with His people, and today, if we are born from above, we are His people. In Numbers 18:23, we have the duty of the Levites, and the expression that they shall have no inheritance among the children of Israel. Several verses in that text reiterate the purpose of the tithe. Here is a reference that deserves consideration in Deut. 12:11 : Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: Doesn’t this sound as if it could also refer to the church? Is not the church a “place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause His name to dwell there”? He is providing a place for us today also called “the church“ and is specific in what we are to bring there. Now that is not “smoking gun” proof, I realize, but let us continue our study: Deuteronomy 14:22: “And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.” An interesting verse indeed; here, the Lord is again very specific as to what the tithe is, and more so He offers the real and best reason behind the tithe--“That thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always” (Note the word “always”) The tithe is to glorify the Lord always. “Always” means forever, every generation, till the end of time; it was given to the Jew, because the Gentiles were heathen and had no part in the things of God, but it was for all of God’s children everywhere, and in every age. If this were not true, we make God a liar in saying that it is “forever”, do we not? We must all ask ourselves why we don’t want to tithe, or rather why we don’t believe the tithe is God’s forever. Giving back 10% is not easy for any of us, but the investment is well worth the sacrifice. In the text of Deut. 14, we see more about the blessing of the tithe (v. 29), and verse 28 speaks of a special tithe of the land to be brought every third year. If the tithe is too much to be easily transported, the Levites were to exchange it for money, but money was only conditional concerning the tithe. Most of the “average” people were poor, and lived off the land and the livestock that the Lord had supplied them, so money was not as prominent in their societies as it is in our culture today, but a tithe is still a tithe. In 2 Chronicles 31:5 we read as follows: “And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.” The command here spoken of referred to the portion of the tithe that was to be given to the priests and Levites. The abundance of the peoples first-fruits was given insomuch as they had far more than was needed. God had blessed them abundantly, and they in turn were to be a blessing to the priests and Levites so that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord. “Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD” (v. 4). So, the tithe was also given for encouraging the full time workers of the Lord. Nehemiah dealt with the tithe also: Neh 10:35 And to bring the firstfruits of our ground, and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees, year by year, unto the house of the LORD: Neh 10:36 Also the firstborn of our sons, and of our cattle, as it is written in the law, and the firstlings of our herds and of our flocks, to bring to the house of our God, unto the priests that minister in the house of our God: Neh 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. Neh 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house. The Levites were not exempt from tithing, they were to tithe from the tithe they received from the people of God. The church follows this same pattern today, that the tithe would not be ignored, but remain in perpetuity as the Lord commanded Israel. The dispensationalists of today have a prOBlem with this, and separate the nation of Israel from the children of God today, but we are all spiritual Jews in the eyes of the Lord (read Galatians 3). The Levites did not tithe to themselves, but to the Lord that His work might continue without interruption. New Testament Tithing As already mentioned several times, the tithe was perpetual, an everlasting honor, if you will, to the Lord as well as a token of thanksgiving and an encouragement to those who live off the tithes and offerings of the congregations. They continue to supply the needs that otherwise would overwhelm the church, and the gates of hell then could prevail against it. Thirteen times in the Old Testament we have seen the tithe mentioned, and only two mentions in the Gospels, but they are not without significance until you throw out the instruction and principle of the Old Testament, which is what the dispensationalist seems to want to do. In Matt. 23:23 we have one of two references to tithing in the New Testament. Here and Luke 11:42 say virtually the same thing: Mat 23:23 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” Luk 11:42 “But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” The last line says it all, “…And not left the other undone.” Our Lord is admonishing them to keep on tithing of the things mentioned, and not to leave them undone. The Pharisee’s still paid tithes, and they were not rebuked for doing so, the fact is, they were encouraged to keep doing it! I know that to some, the New Testament grace has not yet been ushered in, but again, the dispensationalist must interpret this in a way to make it fit because many do not want to tithe! The lack of any mention other than this is not a valid argument. Since the church is different than the tabernacle, and functions differently in some areas, the lack of the word “tithe” becomes questionable to many. In 1 Cor. 8 we find some interesting evidences of giving by percentage. 2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: So that one brother is not overburdened, the Lord does not ask them to give excessively, but equally. The only way they can give equally is to give a percentage. Ten percent is ten percent for everyone, and is no more of a burden for a rich man than for a poorer man. Verse 15, the next verse, shows us that the Old testament principles are applicable in the New Testament too. Here is what v. 15 says: 2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack. You may recall that this statement was made concerning the Israelites and the gathering of manna, as the Lord provided. (Exodus 16, read entire text) Note that the last verse qualifies the matter with “an omer is the tenth part of an ephah” (That which they used to dole it out). The tenth part, this is the meaning of “tithe” it means “tenth”. They measured out a tenth of an ephah for each man, and double on the day before the Sabbath. If any of us would have applied this verse the way that Paul did, we would hear from a dozen people that we took it out of context! Again, let me say, the Old testament supports the New. Though the eighth chapter of 2 Corinthians is speaking of charitable giving and not tithing specifically, we can glean some information from these instances. They gave out of love; love should be the reason we give also. They gave in faith; faith must apply to tithing as well. If we cannot trust God to keep His promises to us, we are of all men most miserable. We should see the need of the church, and understand that it takes money to make things happen as they should, and out of love for the work, we ought to tithe. I believe that those who do not tithe are too self-centered to exercise faith in giving, and do not fully trust their Lord as they might think they do. Most of us know that you will not find a “chapter and verse” for New Testament tithing, but there are very strong implications, for instance: Paul said he could take pay as a full time worker, but chose not to (1 Cor. 9:6). How could he have been paid if the church did not tithe? 1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? I find it strange that Paul would apply this Old testament verse to New Testament support, don’t you? We finish this passage with the following: 1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 1Co 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. If the church was not expected to tithe, Paul’s words would be meaningless. This idea of giving according to your own whim would not work because most of us do not easily part with our “hard earned” money. Most non-tithers do not give enough to support the ministry in any fashion. His heart is not on tithing: Psa. 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. The non-tither is doing things his way, and not God’s way: Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Though the verses immediately above have little, or nothing to do with tithing, they do show human nature, which often dictates what we want, and not necessarily what we should do. I think you get my point. Take a look at this verse: 2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. Our giving is not according to whether we have the money or not, but to equal giving, which, as stated before, demands a percentage giving. Ten percent it what the Lord has commanded in the past, and it is carried over into the church age, or present. (reference given earlier) The command and promise of Luke 6:38 still applies today: Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. What would a discourse on tithing be without quoting that time-tested verse, MalachI 3:10? “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” The promise is for tithers, and is just as valid as any promise that the Lord gives unto man. Many refute this verse, and say it does not apply to the church, but as we have seen, the church is the “storehouse” where the tithe is brought and distributed from, it is the direct image of things to come. Prove God, and see if it isn’t so. He has opened the windows of heaven, and poured out many blessings in my life, and I am convinced that He will do the same in yours. The New Testament reference in 2 Corinthians 9, though it has more to do with charitable giving, proves the accuracy of this verse. 2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: Some take issue with the phrase “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart. So let him give”, they allow this to be the standard for giving of tithes, and any other means of giving. Don’t we know that the “heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” (Jer. 17:9) and none can really know how much? The purpose if their heart in this verse means having the right attitude for giving, as the last part of the verse clarifies. We are to give out of a good motive, a motive of love, and not necessarily out of command or any other rule or emotion. It does not mean let him give whatever he wants to give for that week or month, else he would always find excuse not to tithe. We need to quit looking for “loopholes” in the law, and in the commands of God; a loophole is merely unbelief in disguise, and affords many excuses to go contrary to the Lord’s will and the Word of God. Finally, cultures change; methods change, but Principle does not change, it stands firm, as the rock of Gibraltar, because it is founded on The Rock, Christ. Though our culture is different, and our tithe different, the principle remains the same; ten percent (at least) belongs to God, and we ought to be glad that we have it to give.
  19. unbelief is not taking the Bible for what is says

    1. The Glory Land

      The Glory Land

      I believe, I believe, Lord help me with my unbelieveth.

  20. irishman

    More Soul Winning Tips

    More soul winning tips 1. Carry a New Testament A New Testament is the best thin to use. You are not giving them an in-depth Bible study, just leading them to the Lord. Many people feel intimidated if you walk up to the door with a big Bible under your arm; they often will not answer if they know what your about. Some think you ar J.W.’s or Mormon missionaries, and don’t want to deal with it. A medium print New Testament that fits inside the pocket of your sport coat (or suit coat) is excellent. 2. Always smile! A friendly smile can go a long way. It says “friend”. Many times we need to put aside our troubles, and not let them show on our face. 3. Learn the Romans road by heart. Often we get nervous or even a bit confused if we do cannot qote the verses. Highlight the Romans road in you Bible so that you can find it quickly and easily. This also allows them to read along with you when you lead them to the Lord. (Many markers will bleed through the page of the Bible,; be sure to use a non-bleeding marker.) 4. Use their given name, or the name they go by. This may not be as important as some of the others, but people like to hear their name spoken when you are speaking to them; don’t over-do it though, this sounds lie a mechanical thing. If you don’t kn0w the name “sir” or Ma’am” works well to. 5. Be respectful, after all you are on their property. Do not criticize a statue of Mary in their yard, or any other object. Keep focused on your mission. 6. Always be courteous. Remember, your are in the sanctity of their home or domain. People are cautious when we “invade” the privacy of their home. 7. Stay on the subject. Often, when leading someone to the Lord, they will ask a lot of questions, I have said at that time, “Mr. _____ that’s a good question and I will get to that in just a moment.” If you don’t give them a similar answer, you will be chasing “rabbit trails” and may confuse them more when you finally get to ask them if they would like to have heaven as their home, and Christ as their Savior. Try not to forget to answer their question later though, it was important enough to them to ask about it, and know your Bible so you can give an answer to those that ask of you. (1 Peter 3:15) 8. Always leave a tract. The tract speaks long after you are gone. It can be there for others in the household also. IMPORTANT: Always familiarize yourself with the tracts you use. Many tracts are written for specific doctrines, or teachings that are aside from salvation. I have seen tracts against Catholics; against smoking; against cursing, etc. the tract must fit the occasion. Some tracts just plainly are no good for soul winning.
  21. Now consider this ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. (Psa. 50:22 from memory, so may not be exact quote.

  22. irishman

    The Tower Of Babel

    Imust be color blind, but I see people as people, and all need the same Savior. With that said, I don't know any more than anyone else whether the races originated at Babel, but it sounds reasonable to me. The Bible makes it clear that God confounded the languages to separate them (so much for unions!) but it would take years for them to discover who spoke one language or another with so many people obviously present. The color and facial features would make it much easier to identify with those of like tongue. Just my thoughts on the matter. (I may not be available for replies, so have at it!)
  23. irishman

    Hair And Cover

    A womans long hair shows submission. Those women with short hair usually are the diminant one's in a marriage, or at least in thier own little group. Long hair on men is defined as Absolom was mentionrd to have, and he too was rebellious. Something to be said for the hairstyles.
  24. irishman

    Goodbye

    I would like to thank Bro. Matt for making this forum, I know it must have been a pain at times. I will be leaving because of my health, my MELD score went to 16, (15 puts me on the transplant list), and I have to be available 24/7 for calls. That means my internet has to go (dial-up) unless we decide to get high speed, which isn't likely. Anyway, I apologize to anyone that I may have offended, and I do pray for everyone on the forum. It was never my intention at first to offend anyone, but I did get in the flesh a few times. Again, thank you Bro. Matt, you have been a blessing to me; thank you for allowing me to post on your forum, I have enjoyed the experience very much, and sincerely hope that someone was helped through it--I know I was! I will continue to pray for all of you in general, as the Lord lays it on my heart. Keep the faith, Jesus is coming again. In Christs service, Martin Dunn aka Irishman.
  25. irishman

    Entire Month Of Preaching On Tithing?

    lefton, search out the principles of the tithe, and not necessarily the word tithe. One man has been feeding you with his opinion on tithing--he definitely has a hang up on that doctrine. Don't allow yourself to be influenced by any of us, but let the Holy Spirit teach you what is truth, that's His job anyway. The Old Testament was an entirely different culture, but it is a "shadow (as explained in Col 2:17 and Heb. 10:1) There are other things that are obviously "shadows" of the New Testament (Tabernacle, Temple=church; storehouse=church, etc.) Please consider that though men change and cultures change, the principle of the Word og God never change, they are "settled in Heaven". Hope this helps.
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