[Book] The Shack

[dwayner79]

John,

Every bit of Christian literature is guilty of being wrong on some level, and I have a prOBlem with being "against" something just because it is only suitable for mature believers. Having spoken to many people (both mature and newer christians) who have read the book, I have not found anyone who sees it as promoting any of the complaints lOBed against it (transgendered, feminist, universalism, etc.). Both groups of Christians see a side of God that is caring, personal, and ready to forgive. The more mature Christians have wanted to discuss some interesting Trinitarian thoughts as well as the element of justice.

At some point, we have to stop simply being against everything that does not fit into our mold of who God is, and start challenging ourselves with opinions from others.

Even Baby Christians, I would rather seeing them exploring the wonders of who God is then to see them stifled into a certain mold that one subset of Christianity would have them fit into.

Since I started this thread, I wanted to make sure those who read it get to hear at least one voice from the other side (and from someone who actually read the book completely). No one will leave this book a heretic. No one will magically become a feminist-universalist by reading this book. What will happen if someone is willing to actually read the book is they will be presented with one man's viewpoint of how God would interact with a person who he is trying to reach if he chose to physically condescend to meet someone with real hurts, and real doubts. That picture is a God-honoring one that shows the immense love, care, and mercy he extends to His people. Is it the true perfect picture? No, its done by a human. But is it the completely heretical distorted picture that so many fundamentalist preachers would have you believe, not at all. It is a good read, worth exploring the character of God presented.

[dwayner79]

Side note, two of the most fundamental people I know, who are both strongly grounded in the fundamentals picked up this book at my house and read it. They had never heard anyone's review of it. Half way through the first person's read I asked what they thought. "Interesting" was the reply. When I asked when he was finished, he said exactly what I just stated. It has some really interesting perspectives on how God's character works. He did say he was taken aback with the gender thing, but reading the explanation in the book, he understood why the author did what he did. They have given that copy to others.

This is the biggest part of the review to me. These two folks (my parents) are as IFB as they come, and my father is serious about his study. I do not agree with his theology all the time, but I certainly respect that he knows what he believes and why. If he walked away from the book (without starting it with preconceived notions) with a positive review, and recommendation, then I know the book stands on its own feet as a good book worth reading, even within IFB circles.

[HappyChristian]

Dwayne, one thing I wanted to point out: just because I (or anyone, really) choose not to read a book doesn't mean I'm in a "tough mold" or stifled!

And why should someone who has no interest in reading this book be pitied because they don't want to explore something "new?" Especially when there is nothing new under the sun, as God's Word tells us in Ecc.

I've not heard my pastor say one word about this book - at least, not that I can remember. But I have read reviews on it, both from Christians and non-Christians. And I've spoken with people who read the book - both Christian and non-Christian.

I'm not interested in reading it. But don't pity me! Just like you chose to read it, I've chosen not to. Should I say that I pity you because I might think you are too willing to read things and try to justify them, even if I were to consider them wrong? Of course not!

Why is it okay for you to think the book is fine, but Jerry is wrong if he disagrees with it? You say you pity people who are in a "tough mold," and yet you would put people into a mold as well - if they don't agree with you that there is good in this book, they are wrong. I'm not trying to be argumentative or nasty - I'm honestly curious.

[John81]

Dwayne, one thing I wanted to point out: just because I (or anyone, really) choose not to read a book doesn't mean I'm in a "tough mold" or stifled!

And why should someone who has no interest in reading this book be pitied because they don't want to explore something "new?" Especially when there is nothing new under the sun, as God's Word tells us in Ecc.

I've not heard my pastor say one word about this book - at least, not that I can remember. But I have read reviews on it, both from Christians and non-Christians. And I've spoken with people who read the book - both Christian and non-Christian.

I'm not interested in reading it. But don't pity me! Just like you chose to read it, I've chosen not to. Should I say that I pity you because I might think you are too willing to read things and try to justify them, even if I were to consider them wrong? Of course not!

Why is it okay for you to think the book is fine, but Jerry is wrong if he disagrees with it? You say you pity people who are in a "tough mold," and yet you would put people into a mold as well - if they don't agree with you that there is good in this book, they are wrong. I'm not trying to be argumentative or nasty - I'm honestly curious.

Good post:thumb:

There are many books I choose not to read. As well, among the many books I do choose to read, many others wouldn't want to read all that I read for whatever reason.

Other than the Bible, there is no other book we should all be expected to read.

With regards to "The Shack", as I stated previously, there are some good points in the book but there are much better resources to gain these good points from. I absolutely wouldn't recommend a new Christian read this book. A new Christian should feed upon the Word and perhaps some non-fiction books which help explain the Word or the new Christian life; but I wouldn't recommend fictional work for a new Christian.

[Jerry]

At some point, we have to stop simply being against everything that does not fit into our mold of who God is, and start challenging ourselves with opinions from others.

No, at some point, hopefully you will mature spiritually and start letting the Bible be what you gauge everything in life by.

Good posting, John.

[dwayner79]

Happy/John,

Frankly, my comments were toward Jerry. That is my take on him from our years here. There is no love-loss, and through our many interactions that is my opinion of how he lives. In a box where his way is the only way. My post was half tongue-in-cheek. I do pity him, because I believe there is so much more to this Christian life. Freedom from so many things that is available for the taking.

So no, I am not saying that not reading this book means you are stifled, but when Christians take it upon themselves to be another person's holy spirit and tell them what they can and cannot read/watch/listen to/etc. it is absolutely pushing them into a mold, and that is wrong.

Jerry's last comment here is exactly what I am talking about. I am all for letting the Bible be the gauge. But as soon as we start reading outside of scripture, we do ourselves a disservice to only read one person's position. So again, I want the Bible to be my gauge, not Jerry.

Hope that clarifies. I think I will bow out.

[Psalms18_28]

Dwayne, one thing I wanted to point out: just because I (or anyone, really) choose not to read a book doesn't mean I'm in a "tough mold" or stifled!

And why should someone who has no interest in reading this book be pitied because they don't want to explore something "new?" Especially when there is nothing new under the sun, as God's Word tells us in Ecc.

I've not heard my pastor say one word about this book - at least, not that I can remember. But I have read reviews on it, both from Christians and non-Christians. And I've spoken with people who read the book - both Christian and non-Christian.

I'm not interested in reading it. But don't pity me! Just like you chose to read it, I've chosen not to. Should I say that I pity you because I might think you are too willing to read things and try to justify them, even if I were to consider them wrong? Of course not!

Why is it okay for you to think the book is fine, but Jerry is wrong if he disagrees with it? You say you pity people who are in a "tough mold," and yet you would put people into a mold as well - if they don't agree with you that there is good in this book, they are wrong. I'm not trying to be argumentative or nasty - I'm honestly curious.

makes me wonder how some people can handle peer pressure and say no. at least you do

[Psalms18_28]

Good post:thumb:

There are many books I choose not to read. As well, among the many books I do choose to read, many others wouldn't want to read all that I read for whatever reason.

Other than the Bible, there is no other book we should all be expected to read.

With regards to "The Shack", as I stated previously, there are some good points in the book but there are much better resources to gain these good points from. I absolutely wouldn't recommend a new Christian read this book. A new Christian should feed upon the Word and perhaps some non-fiction books which help explain the Word or the new Christian life; but I wouldn't recommend fictional work for a new Christian.

Amen! There will always be resources that will point out the same thing. And we don't need to read "the shack" just for that.

Kinda like Narnia. People say this book a good picture of Christ.. but we don't need to read Narnia just to understand Salvation.

[Annie]

Dwayner, I don't know if you caught this post (article) in the other thread you started (maybe a year ago?) on The Shack. I've reposted it below. Concerning your most recent remarks, I'll just say that I don't think there's any way anyone on this board could describe me as "in a tough mold" or "stifled" when it comes to literature. Hey, don't tell anybody, but I read the whole Harry Potter series and enjoyed it (though, due to certain flaws in the books, I certainly wouldn't recommend them for their targeted audience of middle/high schoolers). I've read and loved all of C.S. Lewis, George MacDonald, J.R.R. Tolkien, and other authors considered "dangerous" by many other people in here. I've read widely from classics of all kinds. For "candy," I love Agatha Christie's books. I enjoy John MacArthur. I read from a variety of Bible versions. Get the idea?

I cannot comment specifically on this book (Shack), since I've not read it. In a workshop entitled "Literature and the Christian" that I gave to groups of ladies, this book did come up. The discussion heated up pretty fast, as the audience was divided along two distinct opinions: "the best book I've ever read on the Christian life" and "out and out heresy, if not blasphemy." Fortunately, I was able to diffuse the argument, steering the conversation from that topic, since I had not read the book. Since then, I still haven't made time to read it, but I've read plenty of reviews from both sides, as well as plot summaries; so, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on its contents. Here's an article that our pastor sent around to members of our church. (And, keep in mind that, like me, my pastor loves the literature of George MacDonald, The Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, etc.). The article is not written by my pastor, but he endorses its contents. (He has read the book, too.) I've placed some of the article's main points in bold print below. I would welcome your feedback on it...but, as I've said, I really can't discuss this topic knowledgeably until I've read it. (It's next on my list...)

What You Need To Know About The Shack: A Review Article
Barry Traver

The Shack: Where Tragedy Confronts Eternity, by Wm. Paul Young. Los Angeles: Windblown Media, 2007, 248 pages, $14.95.

William Paul Young's theological novel The Shack is a contemporary phenomenon that pastors, elders, and deacons must reckon with. Why? One reason is that

[dwayner79]

Annie,

Thanks for the review. I'll reference quickly my thoughts on the topics brought up.

I don't care much about Young's church life. There are plenty of folks in that camp, and the book certainly challenges traditional (by traditional I mean institutionalized) church... something that deserves a good hard look.

I do not think that the book ever makes the claim that God is powerless to stop evil. I'm not sure where this author is getting that.

Lastly, and most important, is the "God on the Dock" comments. You are right to peg that as a fatal flaw if accurate. I don't think it is. I think Lewis is basically right in his viewpoint that God is not on trial here, or shouldn't be. Frankly, however, He is. Men put him on trial all the time. Should we? No. But we do, especially lost people. I consider Mack lost in the book, and Young's portrayal of God's interaction with Mack is one of the reasons why. Jesus was incredibly caring and forgiving to the lost people he came in contact with, while the religious folks he was harsh to. In this story, we see a picture of how God deals with a lost person which is in contrast to JOB, who was not. Simply because God was willing to show Mack the process and redemption that came from that does not negate that God ultimately is not on trial. In fact, I think through the story we see a shift in Mack from having God on trial, to where he accepts that God is in control, and that we cannot (or should not) question that. In this story, God reveals some of the why and how to why and how He does things, which he did not with JOB. Does that mean this is an inaccurate portrayal of how God functions? no. Its a fictional story designed to show God's character. Simply having God stand up and say to Mack "Where were you when I formed the world" would not be helpful in showing God's character for the purposes of this book, nor would it be an accurate portrayal of how God would deal with a lost person.

Thank you again for your comments.

[kevinmiller]

I'm gonna have to see about reading that some time, just to check it out. My church has it out for sale in the lOBby and the pastor has mentioned it before.

[LindaR]

Was it the Holy Spirit that was presented as "Sophia"? That is the name for a pagan goddess in various religions.

Funny how heresy can be explained away because "the book is entertainment, not presenting doctrine." Actually, the book DOES teach doctrine, and it contradicts God's Word. Perhaps people who are entertained by false doctrine should spend more time being entertained by true Bible stories, rather than apostate fiction that is leading the religious astray.

Jerry!

Good to see you back!

[LindaR]

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The author of The Shack, William Paul Young, misrepresents God by presenting a false picture of God. This is blatant disOBedience to the first and second commandment. I have not read the book and do not have any intention of doing so. However, I have read enough excerpts and reviews to know that this book is heretical, from start to finish....even if there are some good points in it. Truth mixed with error is still error. Rat poison is 99% nutritious, and 1% poison...it will still kill you.

The Shack also teaches universalism...here are some quotes from the book:

The universalist creed of 1899 affirmed that