Separation from the world and separated unto Jesus Christ

[Jerry]

Just because Muslims and Catholics and Protestants are becoming more and more ecumenical doesn't mean we believe in the same God, and that they have always believed in the same God. Mohammed created his religion as a refutation of Christianity and Judaism - he chose the moon god as his god - and that is what the Muslims have believed in throughout history regardless of their claims in the 21st century.

The true God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Trinity - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - so regardless of particular names used and their claims, they do NOT believe in the same God.

[Guest Guest]

John: Please bear in mind that I would never advocate this for any reason other than discussion.

Muslims would agree that they don't believe that Jesus was God's "son," however the do hold him in high regard. They also don't believe that Mohammed was God's "son." As for as that goes, the believe more like the jewish people, in that God does not have a son, but will some day send a messiah.

As for as the scripture being clear, a Muslim would most likely say "what scripture?" And any reply you gave him would inevitably lead to his response of: "Well, I've got my own scripture that says something different." To which you say, "yes, but my scripture is right because it says it's right." Oh, but he thinks he has you beat. He says, "oh, well what a coincidence, my scripture also claims to be right, and therefore since it claims to be the one and only truth, I must believe it."

Do you see what I am getting at. You can't tell a Muslim what they believe just like a muslim can't dictate what Christians believe. In the end, unless you have some how converted them, you are both left saying the same thing: "I'm right and your wrong because my book says so and my book is better than yours."

If a muslim tells me he believes in the God of Abraham, and he is perfectly consistant with all his OT beliefs, then I have no choice but to believe him.

[Jerry]

If a muslim tells me he believes in the God of Abraham, and he is perfectly consistant with all his OT beliefs, then I have no choice but to believe him.

Muslims use the Koran, not the Old Testament - and the muslim Messiah is not the Messiah portrayed in the Bible (either NT or OT). People can make whatever claims they want - but the fact that they are a muslim believing the Koran is proof they do not believe in or follow the God of the Bible. Sure, we can believe that he THINKS he believes in the God of the Bible, but the proof is in the pudding.

Salvation is only through Jesus Christ, as revealed in the Bible.

[Guest Guest]

onbaptiste' date=' you are very naive in regards to Islam. The fact that they kill Jews and Christians is proof that they do not believe the same God we do. Otherwise they would just consider us separated brethren, which they don't.[/quote']

Jerry, I am pretty sure you are aware of this so please don't let me come across as patronizing, but, you are aware that not every muslim advocates murder of non muslims, just like every baptist is not a gay-hating, snake handeling, abortion-clinic bombing pervert. You can't generalize millions of people based on what you read or see on t.v. Just like every christians faith boils down to a personal relationship with God, so in kind do muslims believe.

In response to your last post, I would add that muslims believe that salvation is revealed in the Koran, which includes to torah and some other OT books. Whether you believe in the bible or the koran is a personal choice, each side backed up with the, "but my book says it's right so it must be right" arguement.

[Jerry]

If you think it does not matter whether someone believes the Bible or the Koran, salvation through faith in Christ alone or some other religion, then you truly are not saved and have no clue of what Biblical salvation and Bible faith is.

[Guest Guest]

Please bear in mind that I would never advocate this for any reason other than discussion.

Jerry: I know you came in on the conversation late. I prefaced my points with the above quote. I am fully aware of what the Bible says. However, as I have stated before and this is the last I will comment on the topic, I don't worship the Bible. I worship a living God made known through Christ. And I thank God everyday that he didn't appoint you, or me or anyone else to be the condenmer of men. No one but God will judge me, and you for that matter, in the end. Your opinions concerning the salvation of others may afford you some comfort or reassurance in your own beliefs or what you perceive the Bible to be saying, but in the end, your opinions (like my own) just don't matter. God will decide at the end of time based on each persons life what you are trying to decide on a Wednesday afternoon in January 2008 based on what you have read on a website. None of my commenst were an example of my own personal beliefs, just a recounting of the likely scenerio of a Christian accousting a Muslim with a "my book is better than your book" arguement. I didn't say, nor do I beleive, muslims are correct in their doctrines.

[Jerry]

And I thank God everyday that he didn't appoint you' date=' or me or anyone else to be the condenmer of men.[/quote']

No, but God has quite clearly stated HOW He will judge people (in regards to salvation).



No - God has already determined how people will be saved - and it is something determined in our lives, not after. The judgments that come after (whether the judgment seat of Christ for believers, or the Great White Throne judgment for unbelievers) will be based on our works and how we lived. No one is saved based on how they lived. We could never earn or merit salvation.

[Guest Guest]

Jerry: I'm glad you understand.

[chev1958]

How about the numerous times he has lied? How about claiming that Islam is a religion of peace? How about claiming that Isalm and Chrisianity are equal? How about claiming that anyone who prays to any "god" is praying to the same God as Christians pray to? How about his promotion of homosexuals in his administration? How about him approving increased funding for Planned Parenthood? Etc.

Take a deep breath, John, and relax. I don't know how many times Bush has lied -- I have yet to catch him in a bald-faced lie that resembles wagging a bony finger at a camera and shouting, "I did not have sex with that woman!" And don't try to accuse him of lying to get into the war with Iraq. Everybody in the world, including the anti-war Democrats, thought Hussein has WMDs and had threatened to use them against the US. British intelligence is still confident in its findings. We went in with UN's blessing. Your flip-flopping Democrat side is showing.

Islam a religion of peace? Simply a political statement. Muslims emigrating to the United States have not been a real threat -- so far, at least. In fact, many Muslims have moved here to get away from the violence of the Middle East.

Regarding the "praying to God" statement, Bush did not say every religion was praying to the same God of Christianity - he said Muslims and Christians pray to the same God, and he was sufficiently beaten up by the "Christian leadership" (whatever that means). I was disappointed in that statement as well, but chalked it up to his trying to keep a lid on a boiling pot.

Promoting homosexuals in the administration? Is that a sin? Chapter and verse, please. He's not promoting homosexuality, he's promoting capable individuals who just happen to be homosexual. Homosexuality is one sin among many sins - I guess only sinless individuals can run our government?

Increased funding for Planned Parenthood? Planned Parenthood funding comes through the Department of Health and Human Services. It's part of Title X that covers a wide range of medical services, including Medicaid. And federal budgets are approved by Congress. Of course, the president signs the budget. It would take strong character to veto the entire federal budget over abortion, and maybe that's what it would take. But just try and stop all those millions of government welfare and Social Security checks, and then you'll see who really cares about abortion. Abortion is the law of the land right now, and until that changes, Bush's hands are pretty much tied. And if Bush is responsible for all this extra funding you claim, why is Planned Parenthood so up in arms against him?

Jerry claims that President Bush has prayed for the dead -- I guess I missed that one. If he did, I hope that he meant to pray for the families of the dead. President Bush is infamous for his English skills.

[John81]

In an interview President Bush said he believes that all religions pray to the same God and they all lead to heaven. That was separate from his other remarks about Islam and Christianity praying to the same God.

If you look throughout the time Bush has been in office you will see he adamantely claimed something/denied something, only to have the truth come out a few months later. This has been a pattern during his time in office.

[Jerry]

Bush has stated in two separate public speaches that I have heard to pray for the dead. The two occasions were when the shuttle crashed and after hurricane Katrina. I believe both of these speaches can be found online (though I heard them on the news).

[JAHinton]

It appears that his discussion has gone from one of separation from the world and to Jesus as one of pro Bush vs. anti Bush. A discussion that I refuse to get into. Lets get it back to where it started.

I like to compare separation to the battery in your automobile. It has a negative pole (from the world) and a positive pole (to Jesus). The car starts only when both poles are securely connected. Disconect either and the vehicle does not start. Even so separation that is not both from the world and to Jesus is not Biblical separation.

We have far too many Christians who will give you the list of things the will not do (from the world). But far too few tell what they do (to Jesus). It is not enough to avoid "questionable" activities. The fact that there is a question is enough for me. But what are you doing. How is your Bible Study? How is your prayer time? How is your soul winning? I am sorry to say to each of the preceeding my answer has to be "not good enough."

Far too many "separated" IFB have a much longer don't list than do list

[HappyChristian]

It appears that his discussion has gone from one of separation from the world and to Jesus as one of pro Bush vs. anti Bush. A discussion that I refuse to get into. Lets get it back to where it started.

I like to compare separation to the battery in your automobile. It has a negative pole (from the world) and a positive pole (to Jesus). The car starts only when both poles are securely connected. Disconect either and the vehicle does not start. Even so separation that is not both from the world and to Jesus is not Biblical separation.

We have far too many Christians who will give you the list of things the will not do (from the world). But far too few tell what they do (to Jesus). It is not enough to avoid "questionable" activities. The fact that there is a question is enough for me. But what are you doing. How is your Bible Study? How is your prayer time? How is your soul winning? I am sorry to say to each of the preceeding my answer has to be "not good enough."

Far too many "separated" IFB have a much longer don't list than do list

:goodpost:

[chev1958]

I like to compare separation to the battery in your automobile. It has a negative pole (from the world) and a positive pole (to Jesus). The car starts only when both poles are securely connected. Disconect either and the vehicle does not start. Even so separation that is not both from the world and to Jesus is not Biblical separation.

Sorry, but your analogy is fatally flawed. If the battery needs both to work, then you're saying a Christian needs to be "connected to the world" and "connected to Jesus" to be a good Christian. That's the direct opposite of Biblical separation.Yet, you try to say that we must separate "from" the world and "to" Jesus, so your comparison doesn't work.

[kevinmiller]

Sorry' date=' but your analogy is fatally flawed. If the battery needs both to work, then you're saying a Christian needs to be "connected to the world" and "connected to Jesus" to be a good Christian. That's the direct opposite of Biblical separation.Yet, you try to say that we must separate "from" the world and "to" Jesus, so your comparison doesn't work.[/quote']
I don't think that was what he was saying at all. He said that we should separate from the world to Jesus, meaning that when we are separate from the world, we should be redirecting that focus to the things of God.