Apostleship....Are there "apostles" today?

[BrotherTony]

I have been watching a thread in another venue, and the subject of apostleship has come up. The people in this group are 99% Baptists, some IFB, some SBC, and some Free Will Baptists....The are also people from other churches invovled in this group. This subject has come up many times, and I find that there are some who believe that the Apostleship that was afforded those whom Jesus had called during his ministry, and the Saul, who became the Apostle Paul aren't the only apostles. Does the Bible teach that apostleship ended with these men, or is there apostolic succession taught? Are there apostles today. Can you back up your view with Scripture, please. I know what I was taught in two Bible colleges and in Christian school during my Jr. High and high school years. Interested in hearing others ideology on this in these forums.

Thanks in advance.

BT

[Jerry]

According to the last book of the Bible, there were only 12 Apostles - and will only be 12 throughout eternity.

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Also, Paul and the other Apostle worked the signs of an apostle as they were giving the churches NEW revelation. God's written Word is finished. He is not adding to it today, so there is no need for an apostle today. In the passages of the NT that refer to the end times, there is no reference to true signs and wonders before Christ's return, only false and deceptive ones.

Of course, there is also 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, which refer to the sign gifts being done away with. If that is the case (which I fully believe), what signs and wonders would a NEW apostle be doing today?

[BrotherTony]

48 minutes ago, Jerry said:

According to the last book of the Bible, there were only 12 Apostles - and will only be 12 throughout eternity.

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Also, Paul and the other Apostle worked the signs of an apostle as they were giving the churches NEW revelation. God's written Word is finished. He is not adding to it today, so there is no need for an apostle today. In the passages of the NT that refer to the end times, there is no reference to true signs and wonders before Christ's return, only false and deceptive ones.

Of course, there is also 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, which refer to the sign gifts being done away with. If that is the case (which I fully believe), what signs and wonders would a NEW apostle be doing today?

I agree. I have never believed in apostolic succession, and believe that apostleship ended with the appointed apostles. Many use the scripture on spiritual gifts (he gave some apostles) as a continuation of these gifts, along with the gift of prophecy, etc. I've never understood how they could overlook the scriptures that state "when that which is perfect has come"....it is hard for people of the apostolic faith to answer that particular scripture without twisting it. Even many of the non-denom churches that believe in apostolic succession can't answer many of the questions brought before them about this and other gifts that are allegedly being used today. 

[Disciple.Luke]

On 4/20/2022 at 3:23 PM, BrotherTony said:

I agree. I have never believed in apostolic succession, and believe that apostleship ended with the appointed apostles. Many use the scripture on spiritual gifts (he gave some apostles) as a continuation of these gifts, along with the gift of prophecy, etc. I've never understood how they could overlook the scriptures that state "when that which is perfect has come"....it is hard for people of the apostolic faith to answer that particular scripture without twisting it. Even many of the non-denom churches that believe in apostolic succession can't answer many of the questions brought before them about this and other gifts that are allegedly being used today. 

it seems like any preacher or televangelist who uses the title "apostle" is almost always a Pentecostal.

[BrotherTony]

11 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

it seems like any preacher or televangelist who uses the title "apostle" is almost always a Pentecostal.

Seems that way to me as well. 

[Jim_Alaska]

According to scripture there cannot be any Apostles today. No one can qualify.

 

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
 

[MikeWatson1]

What would you say to people who would call 'the perfect thing' or  'that which is perfect'.. in 1 co 13..

Firstly... Jesus' coming back 

Secondly... the perfected state of the believer after this event.

I dont really believe it is either of these things but find it hard to counter arguments for these.

 

I know Jesus' second coming... the perfect is neuter gender so it isn't Jesus.. but they would counter that it is the event of the coming .. the perfected state..rather than person of Jesus 

[swathdiver]

9 hours ago, 360watt said:

What would you say to people who would call 'the perfect thing' or  'that which is perfect'.. in 1 co 13..

That's in reference to the scriptures being completed.

[Jerry]

13 hours ago, 360watt said:

What would you say to people who would call 'the perfect thing' or  'that which is perfect'.. in 1 co 13..

Firstly... Jesus' coming back 

Secondly... the perfected state of the believer after this event.

I dont really believe it is either of these things but find it hard to counter arguments for these.

 

I know Jesus' second coming... the perfect is neuter gender so it isn't Jesus.. but they would counter that it is the event of the coming .. the perfected state..rather than person of Jesus 

The word "perfect" in the Bible means complete or mature (ie. spiritually mature when referring to believers). Believers are considered "perfect" in Christ already (look up the word in all its New Testament uses), and Jesus was "completed/perfected" by His sufferings during the years of His earthly ministry (specifically referring to His suffering and death upon the cross, but may also include His time in Gethsemane) - we are not waiting for the "perfect" Jesus to be here, He already was.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The New Testament was "perfected/completed" in about the year AD 96, when the final book of the whole Bible was penned by the Apostle John.

[rancher824]

On 5/7/2022 at 7:40 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

According to scripture there cannot be any Apostles today. No one can qualify.

 

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
 

I’ll add to this 1 Corinthians 15:8-9 KJV
[8] And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. [9] For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

paul was an apostle, but he was one despite being born out of due time. He did not fulfill the requirements, but God made an exception. He did see Christ with his own eyes on the road to Damascus. But today, they are not seeing him with their own eyes and it is way out of due time. 

[BrotherTony]

4 minutes ago, rancher824 said:

I’ll add to this 1 Corinthians 15:8-9 KJV
[8] And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. [9] For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

paul was an apostle, but he was one despite being born out of due time. He did not fulfill the requirements, but God made an exception. He did see Christ with his own eyes on the road to Damascus. But today, they are not seeing him with their own eyes and it is way out of due time. 

So, for clarification's purposes, you're saying "No." Correct? 

[rancher824]

6 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

So, for clarification's purposes, you're saying "No." Correct? 

Correct. Paul was out of due time. He was an exception for a special job. He is the only exception mentioned. And him being an exception puts it in a place of apostolic succession makes no sense. Because then it would be the rule, not an exception. 

[BrotherTony]

2 minutes ago, rancher824 said:

Correct. Paul was out of due time. He was an exception for a special job. He is the only exception mentioned. And him being an exception puts it in a place of apostolic succession makes no sense. Because then it would be the rule, not an exception. 

Thank you. I agree. 

[Joe Chandler]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:40 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

The only exception to that is Paul, but the Bible explains this.

1 Corinthians 15:7-11   After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.  8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.  9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.  10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.  11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.