Understanding

[MikeWatson1]

Its common among Christian's to decry the 'sinners prayer' . I dont fully understand why this is so.

I get that just repeating words back to someone isn't going to save anyone. 

 

I get that it is all about God saving someone and not by their own merit or commitment to do works. 

 

But I just see the sinners prayer as along the lines of 'God be merciful to me, a sinner' 

I equate it with Roman's 10:9-10 and belief on the Lord Jesus in the book of John  

So I don't understand why the sinners prayer gets poo-poohed.

[Jim_Alaska]

It has been my experience that it is looked down on because many of those that want the sinner to repeat the prayer will declare that the sinner is saved if he or she does. To these people it is a numbers game, the more people that repeat the prayer, the more people the soul winner can add to their list.

Those that decry using the sinner's prayer during soul winning see it as "easy believism". In other words, " they said the prayer, now they are saved".

[Pastor Scott Markle]

I have NO problem with the "sinner's prayer" of faith in Christ asking him for his gift of eternal forgiveness and eternal salvation.  Such most certainly IS a Biblical concept and practice.  On the other hand, I DO have a problem with the philosophy and practice of "easy prayerism," wherein repeating a set of prayer-words is made equal to heart-faith in Christ.  Such most certainly is a corruption of Biblical concepts and practices.

[Razor]

12 hours ago, 360watt said:

Its common among Christian's to decry the 'sinners prayer' . I dont fully understand why this is so.

I get that just repeating words back to someone isn't going to save anyone. 

 

I get that it is all about God saving someone and not by their own merit or commitment to do works. 

 

But I just see the sinners prayer as along the lines of 'God be merciful to me, a sinner' 

I equate it with Roman's 10:9-10 and belief on the Lord Jesus in the book of John  

So I don't understand why the sinners prayer gets poo-poohed.

It is selling cheap grace.  Grace is costly.

Cheap grace is:

 “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ living and incarnate.”

Costly grace:

Costly grace is the treasure hidden in the field; for the sake of it a man will go and sell all that he has. It is the pearl of great price to buy which the merchant will sell all his goods. It is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble; it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him.

Costly grace is the gospel which must be sought again and again, the gift which must be asked for, the door at which a man must knock.

Such grace is costly because it calls us to follow, and it is grace because it calls us to follow Jesus Christ. It is costly because it costs a man his life, and it is grace because it gives a man the only true life. It is costly because it condemns sin, and grace because it justifies the sinner. Above all, it is costly because it cost God the life of his Son: "ye were bought at a price," and what has cost God much cannot be cheap for us. Above all, it is grace because God did not reckon his Son too dear a price to pay for our life, but delivered him up for us. Costly grace is the Incarnation of God.”

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Razor

[TheGloryLand]

13 hours ago, 360watt said:

Its common among Christian's to decry the 'sinners prayer' . I dont fully understand why this is so.

I get that just repeating words back to someone isn't going to save anyone. 

 

I get that it is all about God saving someone and not by their own merit or commitment to do works. 

 

But I just see the sinners prayer as along the lines of 'God be merciful to me, a sinner' 

I equate it with Roman's 10:9-10 and belief on the Lord Jesus in the book of John  

So I don't understand why the sinners prayer gets poo-poohed.

I believe that a Christian also have to except that the Bible is the word of God, how can a person get saved excepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior, but not believing the complete word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and by hearing the word of God.

[MikeWatson1]

13 hours ago, E Morales said:

I believe that a Christian also have to except that the Bible is the word of God, how can a person get saved excepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior, but not believing the complete word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and by hearing the word of God.

Yeah I believe there is a journey of conviction on the sinners soul before they believe.  It isn't the words of the prayer that saves but the conviction on the soul and response to that. 

I still tho believe the response to be a prayer.

[Jerry]

Talking to/responding to God IS praying - though the term "sinner's prayer" is usually used to refer to a set prayer, set words that a sinner needs to pray. It is not specific words that save someone but a heart that believes. Also, true faith KEEPS believing - many times the Bible says "believETH" (ie. present tense, ongoing, believing). It is not, Well, I said a prayer 20 years ago so I am saved - but I trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ to save me when I was younger (whenever it was), and He IS my Saviour (ie. I still believe in Him today).

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Jerry

[MikeWatson1]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:37 PM, Jerry said:

Talking to/responding to God IS praying - though the term "sinner's prayer" is usually used to refer to a set prayer, set words that a sinner needs to pray. It is not specific words that save someone but a heart that believes. Also, true faith KEEPS believing - many times the Bible says "believETH" (ie. present tense, ongoing, believing). It is not, Well, I said a prayer 20 years ago so I am saved - but I trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ to save me when I was younger (whenever it was), and He IS my Saviour (ie. I still believe in Him today).

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

Ok, so what happens when people fall in their continuous believing? 

Wouldn't it then be that they believed and were saved in the past still?

I think you mean though not some one that is struggling, but rebelling? I e not believing at all? 

[BrotherTony]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:37 PM, Jerry said:

Talking to/responding to God IS praying - though the term "sinner's prayer" is usually used to refer to a set prayer, set words that a sinner needs to pray. It is not specific words that save someone but a heart that believes. Also, true faith KEEPS believing - many times the Bible says "believETH" (ie. present tense, ongoing, believing). It is not, Well, I said a prayer 20 years ago so I am saved - but I trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ to save me when I was younger (whenever it was), and He IS my Saviour (ie. I still believe in Him today).

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Because someone falls away doesn't necessarily mean that they have stopped believing. This seems to be what you are implying. Am I correct?

[Jerry]

Just going on your choice of words alone, Fallen away from what? From the faith, from their faith in Christ? That definition in itself implies they STOPPED BELIEVING (the terms you used above). God keeps His own from the moment they are saved until the moment they go to glory.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If somewhere after they professed to be saved they utterly turn from or reject the Lord Jesus Christ, this is what God says:

1 John 2:18-19 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Argue it over with Him. You can't have faith IN Christ WHILE rejecting Christ. That's an oxymoron and an impossibility.

[BrotherTony]

47 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Just going on your choice of words alone, Fallen away from what? From the faith, from their faith in Christ? That definition in itself implies they STOPPED BELIEVING (the terms you used above). God keeps His own from the moment they are saved until the moment they go to glory.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If somewhere after they professed to be saved they utterly turn from or reject the Lord Jesus Christ, this is what God says:

1 John 2:18-19 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Argue it over with Him. You can't have faith IN Christ WHILE rejecting Christ. That's an oxymoron and an impossibility.

So, according to YOUR logic that would mean Demas wasn't saved...Peter, who denied Christ wouldn't have been saved because he denied Christ and the Bible says that whosoever denies him he would deny in Heaven....even though he came back to Christ after the ressurection, this would still apply...Hmm...what a dilemma! Blanket statements and positions get you nowhere, Jerry. 

[SureWord]

On 2/8/2022 at 5:54 PM, 360watt said:

Its common among Christian's to decry the 'sinners prayer' . I dont fully understand why this is so.

I get that just repeating words back to someone isn't going to save anyone. 

 

I get that it is all about God saving someone and not by their own merit or commitment to do works. 

 

But I just see the sinners prayer as along the lines of 'God be merciful to me, a sinner' 

I equate it with Roman's 10:9-10 and belief on the Lord Jesus in the book of John  

So I don't understand why the sinners prayer gets poo-poohed.

Whatever works.

Some people have been saved when praying that prayer and it seems some haven't.

It's all about the sinners heart.

I think the "sinners prayer" is more of a tool for the soul winner in guiding a person to Christ.

I was saved when I kneeled at my bathroom sink and prayed, "Lord, please help me".

Was it a "sinners prayer"? Not technically but Jesus knew where my heart was at and he saved me. I really had no idea what to pray.

Honestly, I never even heard a precise, clear presentation of the gospel that I recall, nor went to a service and heard the gospel, hit the sawdust trail or any such thing.

I seemed to pick up bits and pieces of the gospel along the way throughout my life.

Once when someone gave me a Children's Bible for Christmas when I was in 1st grade. I can't remember who but I think it was my babysitter.

Once when I was 7 or 8 when I went to an Assemblies of God service with my father and stepmother who were looking for a church (they ended up Mormons). I vaguely recalled Jesus being taught in Sunday School.

Once when I asked my mother, who herself was not saved, what sin was when I was about 12. She was not saved but did attend a Methodist church occasionally as a child. 

Once when I was 17 when I went to a Bible study with my brother and his wife. I have no memory of what was taught but I do know my brother's wife was just recently saved and has been a strong Christian ever since.

Once when I was 17 and a friend of mine told me his Roman Catholic mother had been born again and he explained to me what she said it was but he himself wasn't born again.

Then the sign at the World Series.

Like individual seeds sown but the most notable was during the 1986 World Series someone behind home plate kept holding up a sign  that said "John 3:16". I wondered what it was then it occured to me, I do not know why since I never read the Bible, that it was a Bible verse. I looked it up in my mother's old KJV bible she received for Christmas when she was a child and four months later Jesus saved my soul.

I guess this is what Jesus meant in John 3:8 when he said:

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Getting saved isn't always the result of a "salvation plan" or "3 Steps of Salvation" or "Romans Road" or praying the Sinner's Prayer. Mine was the sowing of seeds over time and the patience of the Spirit of God.

So, I think the Sinner's Prayer works as a method of giving the sinner guidance to the Lord and also a memory of a specific date and time they were saved. I don't have an exact, specific memory of the day or hour since I never wrote it down but I do know I was at that moment through the blood of Jesus Christ.

[MikeWatson1]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:46 PM, SureWord said:

Whatever works.

Some people have been saved when praying that prayer and it seems some haven't.

It's all about the sinners heart.

I think the "sinners prayer" is more of a tool for the soul winner in guiding a person to Christ.

I was saved when I kneeled at my bathroom sink and prayed, "Lord, please help me".

Was it a "sinners prayer"? Not technically but Jesus knew where my heart was at and he saved me. I really had no idea what to pray.

Honestly, I never even heard a precise, clear presentation of the gospel that I recall, nor went to a service and heard the gospel, hit the sawdust trail or any such thing.

I seemed to pick up bits and pieces of the gospel along the way throughout my life.

Once when someone gave me a Children's Bible for Christmas when I was in 1st grade. I can't remember who but I think it was my babysitter.

Once when I was 7 or 8 when I went to an Assemblies of God service with my father and stepmother who were looking for a church (they ended up Mormons). I vaguely recalled Jesus being taught in Sunday School.

Once when I asked my mother, who herself was not saved, what sin was when I was about 12. She was not saved but did attend a Methodist church occasionally as a child. 

Once when I was 17 when I went to a Bible study with my brother and his wife. I have no memory of what was taught but I do know my brother's wife was just recently saved and has been a strong Christian ever since.

Once when I was 17 and a friend of mine told me his Roman Catholic mother had been born again and he explained to me what she said it was but he himself wasn't born again.

Then the sign at the World Series.

Like individual seeds sown but the most notable was during the 1986 World Series someone behind home plate kept holding up a sign  that said "John 3:16". I wondered what it was then it occured to me, I do not know why since I never read the Bible, that it was a Bible verse. I looked it up in my mother's old KJV bible she received for Christmas when she was a child and four months later Jesus saved my soul.

I guess this is what Jesus meant in John 3:8 when he said:

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Getting saved isn't always the result of a "salvation plan" or "3 Steps of Salvation" or "Romans Road" or praying the Sinner's Prayer. Mine was the sowing of seeds over time and the patience of the Spirit of God.

So, I think the Sinner's Prayer works as a method of giving the sinner guidance to the Lord and also a memory of a specific date and time they were saved. I don't have an exact, specific memory of the day or hour since I never wrote it down but I do know I was at that moment through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Yeah I've had a similar experience myself of hearing bits and pieces and then coming to a point where I was convinced to call out to Christ for salvation. 

The sinners prayer i believe if someone is sincere in it.. would be salvation, but yes I agree it's the sinners heart, rather than the words that matter.  

I think many see the sinners prayer as a kind of get out of jail free card, where someone who has just parroted back words to someone,  goes off and lives whatever they like and then claims later they were saved by the sinners prayer.

I don't mean that kind of situation but someone who us genuine.. praying under conviction from the Holy Spirit to receive Christ as their Saviour

[1Timothy115]

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 1 John 4:15

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:1

And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mark 8:29