Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?

[SureWord]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lyons said:

My wife and I had two still-born daughters and I know they are in heaven! Calvinism is pure evil!!! It is from the pit of hell!!!

Hear, Hear!

[heartstrings]

God created some to go to Hell for His "glory" and we can't accept that because "God's ways are higher than our ways". (even though Genesis chapter 3 says we have "knowledge of good and evil"). Hey, even LOST people know that's evil.

[Ukulelemike]

20 hours ago, SureWord said:

A question I always had about Calvinism is what about babies who die? If we are predestined does that mean there are babies in hell? Or do only predestined babies die as I had one Calivinist suggest?

Paul covers this issue quite competently and clearly, in Romans 7:

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.  But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death."

The highlighted area seems quite clear to me: The only was someone, particularly a Jew, could be alive without the law, was if, for some reason, the law didn't apply to them. We know Paul grew up a Jew, so the law was his rule of life-how could he have once been alive without it? Only is, as a small child, he had no understanding of it, of right and wrong and sin and punishment. BUT, when the commandment came, when he reached an understanding of it, sin, which had always been [resent in him, but sleeping, of no effect without understanding, revived, gained power over him, and he spiritually died. See, he didn't know lust until he understood that the Law taught Thou shalt not covet.  Sin applies only when we understand right and wrong. 

[DaChaser]

18 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Paul covers this issue quite competently and clearly, in Romans 7:

"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.  But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death."

The highlighted area seems quite clear to me: The only was someone, particularly a Jew, could be alive without the law, was if, for some reason, the law didn't apply to them. We know Paul grew up a Jew, so the law was his rule of life-how could he have once been alive without it? Only is, as a small child, he had no understanding of it, of right and wrong and sin and punishment. BUT, when the commandment came, when he reached an understanding of it, sin, which had always been [resent in him, but sleeping, of no effect without understanding, revived, gained power over him, and he spiritually died. See, he didn't know lust until he understood that the Law taught Thou shalt not covet.  Sin applies only when we understand right and wrong. 

The answer varies depending upon the Calvinist, as some would say only infants of saved parents, others would say only those who are the elect, I would say that God has chosen to elect in Chruist those who cannot do anything, such as babies and mentally handicapped persons!

[SureWord]

2 hours ago, DaChaser said:

The answer varies depending upon the Calvinist, as some would say only infants of saved parents, others would say only those who are the elect, I would say that God has chosen to elect in Chruist those who cannot do anything, such as babies and mentally handicapped persons!

No doubt babies go to heaven. Whether they are part of the church I am not sure. They may be part of some other redeemed body in heaven. Maybe part of the "general assembly" (Hebrews 12:23)

[DaChaser]

1 minute ago, SureWord said:

No doubt babies go to heaven. Whether they are part of the church I am not sure. They may be part of some other redeemed body in heaven. Maybe part of the "general assembly" (Hebrews 12:23)

I think that we all will be adults in heaven, especially once received glorified bodies!

[SureWord]

1 minute ago, DaChaser said:

I think that we all will be adults in heaven, especially once received glorified bodies!

Yes, I agree with that for sure.

[DaChaser]

1 minute ago, SureWord said:

Yes, I agree with that for sure.

As I do not agree with Catholics that there are babies in heaven and also in Limbo!

[Ukulelemike]

On 6/19/2020 at 6:00 AM, DaChaser said:

The answer varies depending upon the Calvinist, as some would say only infants of saved parents, others would say only those who are the elect, I would say that God has chosen to elect in Chruist those who cannot do anything, such as babies and mentally handicapped persons!

You can say that as you like, but that is certainly adding to what scripture says. It says just what it says, we need not add man made philosophy to it. They are not elect in Christ, they are in innocence, where there is no law, and sin is not accounted.

[DaChaser]

On 6/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, Ukulelemike said:

You can say that as you like, but that is certainly adding to what scripture says. It says just what it says, we need not add man made philosophy to it. They are not elect in Christ, they are in innocence, where there is no law, and sin is not accounted.

All have fallen in Adam, as even babies are sinners by nature!

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Romans 5:18 -- "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

Indeed, I must agree that "ALL men" are under judgment to condemnation (yea, condemned already), not due to their own sin, but due to Adam's sin.  However, the very same statement of God's Holy Word ALSO declares that "the free gift" of salvation has come upon (is available to) "ALL men" as well.  Now, if contextually the "all men" phrase in the first half of the verse refers to every single human individual who enters the world, then contextually the "all men" phrase in the second half of the verse would refer to the same - to EVERY SINGLE human individual who enters the world.

[Ukulelemike]

2 hours ago, DaChaser said:

All have fallen in Adam, as even babies are sinners by nature!

But where there is no law, or understanding of sin and punishment, there is no imputing of sin. All are fallen, but until sin is willingly committed, it is not imputed. That is exactly what Paul was saying in Rom 7.

 

[Scott Lyons]

2 hours ago, DaChaser said:

All have fallen in Adam, as even babies are sinners by nature!

@DaChaser take your heresy of Calvinism elsewhere!

[DaChaser]

5 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

But where there is no law, or understanding of sin and punishment, there is no imputing of sin. All are fallen, but until sin is willingly committed, it is not imputed. That is exactly what Paul was saying in Rom 7.

 

All have died in Adam, as all born save Jesus tatsed sin nature and the effects of the fall!

4 hours ago, Scott Lyons said:

@DaChaser take your heresy of Calvinism elsewhere!

Original Sin is a biblical doctrine!

[heartstrings]

21 minutes ago, DaChaser said:

 

Original Sin is a biblical doctrine!

Sure is. But Calvinism sure isn't.