Music in Church

[Guest Guest]

It wasn't on the church sign. The sign didn't even have "Baptist" on it... even though it included the name Baptist in the bulletin, I think. The reason I knew it was "Conservative Baptist" is because of a plaque that was hanging on one of the walls. It's part of the "Conservative Baptist Association of America"... whatever that is.

[trc123]

Princess,

As you have the Internet I'd encourage you to do a Google search on "Conservative Baptist Association of America." I'm fairly certain you will be able to find a large amount of information both positive, negative and neutral.

If you are looking however for someone's opinion on the OB as to who and what they are, I wouldn't be qualified with first hand knowledge.

[Guest Guest]

I found their website, it just doesn't give a whole lot of information. I still don't know much about it...

[futurehope]

Interesting where this discussion has led us back to - the KJB as the authority. My only question is, why are so many people talking about how they feel about the music, or about what their pastor does, or whatever else? Isn't the point to look for the truth in the matter - what does the KJB say about how and what music is appropriate for our lives?

[bzmomo7]

Can we discuss this statement? What exactly do you mean? I'm not trying to be ornery here, but it would seem to me that this "passion" that you describe is most likely the reason that you are in favor of contemporary worship services, and I'd be interested to know how you measure a person's "passion" for their Savior in this way.

[Guest Guest]

bzmomo7...Great post. :thumb I know Christian people who love Gospel music (raising my hand)...and, many other OB members, and church members, etc...who are just as "passionate" as Our Saviour as any one else. Well put, IMHO.

[trc123]

No one should assume that those of us who love the older Gospel hymns aren't as passionate about the Lord Jesus Christ as those of us who also very much enjoy some newer and more instrument diverse praise songs and vice versa. I personally love and can sing from memory the great majority of the hymns from the Great Hymns of the Faith Red Hymnal. And I also love some of the newer praise songs and music as well. Do I enjoy so called "Christian Rock" (i.e. Stryper, etc.)?...... no I do not.

The difficulty when it comes to discussing flavors of Christian music is that everyone takes their choice very seriously and when someone else says something to extol the virtues of a different flavor people feel that they must think their different choice is being denegraded (sp?). Then on top of it all, while most IFB believers would agree that the believer is to stay away from "worldly" music, there is little agreement as to exactly how to define "worldly" when it comes to the subject of music (each person has a slightly different take).

If worldly means anything the "world" is doing, then I won't wear a tie and suit and I won't listen to classical music because millions of "unsaved" are wearing ties to work and listen to classical music.

If worldly means anything that the "world" thinks a Christian shouldn't do, then I'm allowing the unsaved person's expectations of what a Christian should be and do to reign in my life, rather than the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

"And hauing spoyled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing ouer them in it. Let no man therefore iudge you in meat, or in drinke, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the New moone, or of the Sabbath dayes: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward, in a voluntary humilitie, and worshipping of Angels, intruding into those things which hee hath not seene, vainely puft vp by his fleshly minde: And not holding the head, from which all the body by ioynts and bands hauing nourishment ministred, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if yee bee dead with Christ fro the rudiments of the world: why, as though liuing in the world, are ye subiect to ordinances?
(Touch not, taste not, handle not: Which all are to perish with the vsing) after the commandements and doctrines of men:" Col 2:15 - 22 KJV - 1611 (perhaps not the exact interpretation for the subject of music; but certainly application can be made)

I'm personally much more concerned about what God says is right for me as his child than I am about the world or the church. While I say that, most things in the Christian walk (and in the Scriptures) is about balance and most things taken to the extreme are not of God.

I'm not really communicating this the way I want, I don't think.....my lunch hour is getting over with and I have to go.....I look forward to the various words of wisdom or rebuke you may have.......

[HappyChristian]

No one should assume that those of us who love the older Gospel hymns aren't as passionate about the Lord Jesus Christ as those of us who also very much enjoy some newer and more instrument diverse praise songs and vice versa. I personally love and can sing from memory the great majority of the hymns from the Great Hymns of the Faith Red Hymnal. And I also love some of the newer praise songs and music as well. Do I enjoy so called "Christian Rock" (i.e. Stryper, etc.)?...... no I do not.

The difficulty when it comes to discussing flavors of Christian music is that everyone takes their choice very seriously and when someone else says something to extol the virtues of a different flavor people feel that they must think their different choice is being denegraded (sp?). Then on top of it all, while most IFB believers would agree that the believer is to stay away from "worldly" music, there is little agreement as to exactly how to define "worldly" when it comes to the subject of music (each person has a slightly different take).

If worldly means anything the "world" is doing, then I won't wear a tie and suit and I won't listen to classical music because millions of "unsaved" are wearing ties to work and listen to classical music.

If worldly means anything that the "world" thinks a Christian shouldn't do, then I'm allowing the unsaved person's expectations of what a Christian should be and do to reign in my life, rather than the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

"And hauing spoyled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing ouer them in it. Let no man therefore iudge you in meat, or in drinke, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the New moone, or of the Sabbath dayes: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward, in a voluntary humilitie, and worshipping of Angels, intruding into those things which hee hath not seene, vainely puft vp by his fleshly minde: And not holding the head, from which all the body by ioynts and bands hauing nourishment ministred, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if yee bee dead with Christ fro the rudiments of the world: why, as though liuing in the world, are ye subiect to ordinances?
(Touch not, taste not, handle not: Which all are to perish with the vsing) after the commandements and doctrines of men:" Col 2:15 - 22 KJV - 1611 (perhaps not the exact interpretation for the subject of music; but certainly application can be made)

I'm personally much more concerned about what God says is right for me as his child than I am about the world or the church. While I say that, most things in the Christian walk (and in the Scriptures) is about balance and most things taken to the extreme are not of God.

I'm not really communicating this the way I want, I don't think.....my lunch hour is getting over with and I have to go.....I look forward to the various words of wisdom or rebuke you may have.......

:goodpost:

[futurehope]

trc, thank you for taking us back to the original point: what is God's will for music in our lives? Where is the line drawn on trying to combine the ways of the world with the praise of Christ? These are the focus, and I believe very important.

[futurehope]

I have to agree here. Kevin, the statement you make here, while very possibly not your intent, sounds like things I've heard said by those of the Assemblies and Pentecostal doctrines. Their focus is on emotions and feelings, which we are warned about trusting in, instead of worshipping in truth and in spirit. Physical displays and feelings of passion are not necessarily true worship. Often, physical displays are made for men and not for God. Growing up in a "contemporary" Methodist church, I experience and observed this. Not to mention, that many of these "feel good" song services are followed (and I'm definitely generalizing and not saying necessarily your church) by the same type of preaching. The end result of the service is that people feel great about themselves and, instead of confessing their sins to God so that He can forgive them, many ignore the reallity in their life and try to just forget about their sin. This does not lead to the reconciliation of sinners to Christ and service for Him, but a "feel good attitude" about their own life and what they are doing.

[trc123]

Personally, I'm praising God because of the forgiveness of my sin by the once and for all sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood! That would make anyone shout and get emotional (I'd think).

[kevinmiller]

A person's heart will often determine what they display outwardly. When a person sings hymns, oftentimes they just sing the words while looking straight ahead or down at their hymnbooks. On the other hand, when I'm in a contemporary worship service, people are raising their hands as they sing about the power or glory of God. I've even see people cry at times. It seems like their hearts are really in it and they focus on and think about what they are singing rather than just saying the words. I said once before that a lot of hymns are about doctrine whereas most P&W songs are focusing on the glory and majesty and goodness of God. I see something real in the way people worship God in a contemporary service that I don't see in most traditional services. It seems like people actually care about what they're singing.

Also @ future, the focus is not on emotions in the services I've been in and the churches I've looked at that are contemporary. Sure, some probably are, you have extremes on both sides. Usually the preaching is good, too. That's just my personal experience and I'll admit it's not extensive since I haven't actually been in a multitude of different churches.

[Guest Guest]

Personally' date=' I'm praising God because of the forgiveness of my sin by the once and for all sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood! That would make anyone shout and get emotional (I'd think).[/quote']


Hi trc...This may seem like a dumb question on my part, but...are you originally from Japan?

Molly

[Guest Guest]

Well...I suppose this all goes back in my mind to what my pastor has said...."How do we know what is in a person's heart...when we don't even know what is in our own heart?" Only the Lord Jesus Christ knows the answer to that question. We should know when we are saved by the power of the Holy Spirit...and, our "fruits" should be the result of that salvation. I am happy that you are following the Lord's Will for you life, Kevin. :smile


Revelation 22:2...In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. KJVB.

[futurehope]

Kevin, please note that I'm not saying that your church is as "shallow" as some of what I had previously mentioned. But also, please realize that the bottom line, and you've basically said this yourself, it's not the music that determines the service or the amount of love and passion for our Saviour. I have made very generalized comments about "contemporary" church serices and you have done the same about the "old fashioned" ones. However, the bottom line is really about the motives, intents, and personal spiritual response to God of each individual and the church as a whole. If people are staring down at their songbooks lifelessly and singing the words out of duty, they are basically doing so in vain. In the same respect, if they are lifting their hands and singing out to make themselves appear "in tune to the Holy Spirit" (as I have heard some charasmatics put it) or to make themselves feel good, they are also in vain. So maybe we should look back to our original subject of not necessarily considering things from an emotional stand point and just simply the facts in the word. I think a good question was posed earlier: What determines (and it should come from God's word and not your opinions please) something to be appropriate for our lives and God's praise and service and not to be worldly? Also, what makes something to be worldly?

Anyone??