Music in Church

[futurehope]

I Cor.15:33 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

I'm not 100% sure where you are going with this. Can you clarify please?

[Guest Guest]

I Cor.15:33 "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

Stumbling I feel CCM is no different then the preacher preaching against drinking beer while watching a football game. When he does this it may cause someone new or old to crave that old action and turn back to it. This goes for other things as well. If you shop in a large discount store or mall their are images that might make you stumble. I understand some do not like CCM for traditional, worldly, ans style reasons but for me it is not wrong. I do not get convicted that it is wrong I have sough it ought in scripture and I find none that tell me it is wrong. On the contrary I feel the lord put it my life to pull me closer to him.
Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

[trc123]

Well lets see there has already been many scripture verses that point directly to separation from the world. So' date=' if we are to take such a strong stance against CCM in which many of the top artists are born again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ then why do we not stop the other "worldly" activities we all participate in on a daily sometimes minute basis? Some of the CCM artists are new Christians so their music might seem a little worldly. Amazing Grace was written moments after a man came to salvation on a ship! What if he were 18 living in the USA he might of put a modern beat to it with his electric guitar. Tank Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.[/quote']

I'm fairly certain that most of us would be shocked at were some of the music for our beloved Hymns that we sing originally came from. There have been some that the words came from the author's heart, while they took the music from a song sung in a 1800's bar and God used that and blesses it today. God's ways are not my ways and he constantly amazes me by how, where and with whom he works his will and good pleasure.

I will say, there are some things just not defined in great detail in the Scriptures. Some I would call the mysteries of God and other things concerning the precise and exact direction for our walk. There are many specific instructions and commands in the Scriptures; and there are other times God gives only the principle and leaves it to the Holy Spirit's direction for the individual.

I do not pretend to even come close to understanding it all, nor understanding all about God. Some may believe you have to have an answer about God and his whys for everything or you just won't have certain and clear directions for your life. Personally, I take great comfort in the fact the God is WAY SMARTER and WISER then I; if he were not, then humanity is in a world of hurt!

[Jerry]

I'm fairly certain that most of us would be shocked at were some of the music for our beloved Hymns that we sing originally came from. There have been some that the words came from the author's heart, while they took the music from a song sung in a 1800's bar and God used that and blesses it today. God's ways are not my ways and he constantly amazes me by how, where and with whom he works his will and good pleasure.

Actually, that is a myth perpetuated by the pro-CCM crowd - but it has been ably refuted by those who have actually RESEARCHED the matter. Perhaps you should do the same.

Some of the CCM artists are new Christians so their music might seem a little worldly. Amazing Grace was written moments after a man came to salvation on a ship! What if he were 18 living in the USA he might of put a modern beat to it with his electric guitar.

I would be curious to know where you got your info on that hymn.

As far as young Christians producing music goes, maybe the person should mature a bit before writing and producing wrong music that will affect many people. I used to write a lot - and when I got saved, I saw those writings in light of God's Word. Guess what? I took a step back from writing while I grew in the Lord. Yes, I still wrote some poems based on what I was learning from God's Word, and as I matured, I also evaluated and saw those same poems (and rejected some of them) in light of God's Word too. BUT I didn't jump on the ministry bandwagon to be a "Christian" writer as a brand new baby Christian. If God doesn't want a novice Christian leading a church, does He want a novice Christian ministering through songs that may not be appropriate or in line with His Word. He didn't save a lost rocker so he could became a saved rocker the day after he got saved. Perhaps He did want that person involved in music ministry down the road, but the music and the lyrics and the lifestyle would be radically different. If not, did that person even get saved or called by God? I would question that.

[kevinmiller]

Casting Crowns was started by a Baptist youth pastor. :wink

[Guest Guest]

Well lets see there has already been many scripture verses that point directly to separation from the world. So' date=' if we are to take such a strong stance against CCM in which many of the top artists are born again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ then why do we not stop the other "worldly" activities we all participate in on a daily sometimes minute basis? Some of the CCM artists are new Christians so their music might seem a little worldly. [/quote']


Oh, I understand...about being a "new" Christian...I used to listen to CCM all the time, until I had a strong desire to listen to Gospel. As far as the world goes? We have to live in the world, YES...ITA. I just "try" to separate myself as much as I can from "worldy" things, as much as possible...b/c I have too. They will influence my life in a negative way. Yet, we are living in the world, but should NOT be part of it. That is the ONLY thing that I know how to do...it works for me and keeps me on track better, you know?


If I had "my" way, not God's way, of course...I would live in some "colony" with "true" born-again believers. However, I know that is NOT part of "The Great Commission." We are to lead good Godly lives...to the best of our ability, so that other people can come to know Jesus Christ as Personal Saviour. I am sooo happy it isn't my way or other mens/womens way BUT the Lord's way. :thumb

[282Mikado]

If I may be permitted to paint with a broad brush, it seems that most of the older people (40+) here take to the traditional approach and most of the younger tack to the contemporary. It seems the younger generation is typically more tolerant to what is going on around them. Not just this generation, but in every generation. I grew up in the 60?s and 70?s which was very tolerant!

This seems to be the way things generally tend to run. When America was founded, it can be safely said, it was quite conservative not only spiritually but socially as well. Slowly over the years we have seen a steady shift to the left in both these areas. Since the ?60s it has accelerated greatly and subsequent decades have done nothing to slow the trend. But notice the way the trends always shift?to the left. Is this good? Have we benefited from this? We are now regularly hearing of female and homosexual pastors, immodest apparel not only in the congregation but on the worship teams and even behind the pulpit. Is this good? Is this Godly?

An earlier quote stated:

I tend to prefer contemporary services. They are a whole lot more meaningful than people staring down at their hymnbooks and quoting the verses.

Does this mean that prior to CCM no one ever had a meaningful worship service? Were the great revivals of the 1800s all flat and boring because they didn?t have overhead projectors, but had to sing from hymnals or sheet music? How did anyone ever get saved prior to the driving rhythm of the drums and electric bass?

Over the past 5 decades of my life we have seen a rapid acceleration of Satan taking over our society socially and religiously. You can not deny that most churches today are lukewarm at best with a lot of worldly influence inside the doors. Is that really the way we want to go? I would think all here would say no.

I can not give any scripture that outright states CCM is from the devil, but I can see where its roots are and they are from the devil. Can something that has bad roots bring forth good fruit?

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Just some broad brush thoughts on the matter.

[HappyChristian]

If I may be permitted to paint with a broad brush, it seems that most of the older people (40+) here take to the traditional approach and most of the younger tack to the contemporary. It seems the younger generation is typically more tolerant to what is going on around them. Not just this generation, but in every generation. I grew up in the 60?s and 70?s which was very tolerant!

This seems to be the way things generally tend to run. When America was founded, it can be safely said, it was quite conservative not only spiritually but socially as well. Slowly over the years we have seen a steady shift to the left in both these areas. Since the ?60s it has accelerated greatly and subsequent decades have done nothing to slow the trend. But notice the way the trends always shift?to the left. Is this good? Have we benefited from this? We are now regularly hearing of female and homosexual pastors, immodest apparel not only in the congregation but on the worship teams and even behind the pulpit. Is this good? Is this Godly?

An earlier quote stated:

Does this mean that prior to CCM no one ever had a meaningful worship service? Were the great revivals of the 1800s all flat and boring because they didn?t have overhead projectors, but had to sing from hymnals or sheet music? How did anyone ever get saved prior to the driving rhythm of the drums and electric bass?

Over the past 5 decades of my life we have seen a rapid acceleration of Satan taking over our society socially and religiously. You can not deny that most churches today are lukewarm at best with a lot of worldly influence inside the doors. Is that really the way we want to go? I would think all here would say no.

I can not give any scripture that outright states CCM is from the devil, but I can see where its roots are and they are from the devil. Can something that has bad roots bring forth good fruit?

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Just some broad brush thoughts on the matter.

Pretty good paintin', 282!!

[Guest Guest]

Pretty good paintin', 282!!

Beautiful paiting...Mikado. :thumb You are a very perseptive Christian and very wise, indeed. Thank you for this analogy. :smile This is very logical in my mind, anyway. Pretty much...everyone knows I am an ex-Rock-n-Roller...and, it led to nothing but disaster in my life. In fact, in the RCC growing up, we had guitar Mass. At that time...I thought it was great. Of course, I was young and unsaved, why wouldn't I think it was "great?"

[Guest Guest]

I may be permitted to paint with a broad brush, it seems that most of the older people (40+) here take to the traditional approach and most of the younger tack to the contemporary.

I think your mistaken in that, on this board at least. I think the majority of those on this board who are under 40 also disaprove of rock, rap, much or all CCM etc. If you want to know for sure, start a poll for those of us forty and younger to vote in. Outside of this board you may well be correct though.

[Guest Guest]

Rut-roh. :-S I forgot about Seth, and some other young Christians. :frog

[282Mikado]

As I said...broad brush. It seems most of the heated arguement falls between the two age groups. I agree, there are a good portion under 40 here that hold to the traditional.

[Guest Guest]

As I said...broad brush. It seems most of the heated arguement falls between the two age groups. I agree' date=' there are a good portion under 40 here that hold to the traditional.[/quote']


Yes, Mikado...a "broad brush." When you pointed it out...I could see it immeditately. Like I said, you are observant to notice this matter.

[kevinmiller]

If I may be permitted to paint with a broad brush, it seems that most of the older people (40+) here take to the traditional approach and most of the younger tack to the contemporary. It seems the younger generation is typically more tolerant to what is going on around them. Not just this generation, but in every generation. I grew up in the 60?s and 70?s which was very tolerant!

This seems to be the way things generally tend to run. When America was founded, it can be safely said, it was quite conservative not only spiritually but socially as well. Slowly over the years we have seen a steady shift to the left in both these areas. Since the ?60s it has accelerated greatly and subsequent decades have done nothing to slow the trend. But notice the way the trends always shift?to the left. Is this good? Have we benefited from this? We are now regularly hearing of female and homosexual pastors, immodest apparel not only in the congregation but on the worship teams and even behind the pulpit. Is this good? Is this Godly?

I don't know about the accuracy of this. I think children tend to follow the teachings of their parents in this area, many times. Parents allow their kids to listen to music that they approve of, be it CCM or traditional. Most parents don't have a problem with CCM. True, there are some that do and the kids still listen to it and I think that's because they were never given a good enough reason not to. Young people naturally challenge what they have been taught and want to know the reasoning behind things. Youth can be a wonderful thing. Young people are far more likely to challenge the status quo than older people who are far more set in their ways. I think that is more the reason you might find that many older people like to stick with the traditional music.

Of course, it can also be a dangerous thing if not led by Scripture and the Holy Spirit. It can manifest itself in rebellion as opposed to reformation or personal growth.

I don't think that it's fair to blame the current state of Christianity on young people, though. I think the fault lies with parents who failed to give their children a solid foundation on Biblical principals.

Does this mean that prior to CCM no one ever had a meaningful worship service? Were the great revivals of the 1800s all flat and boring because they didn?t have overhead projectors, but had to sing from hymnals or sheet music? How did anyone ever get saved prior to the driving rhythm of the drums and electric bass?

Certainly not, I would never say that. Nor would I say that even today all traditional services are not meaningful. I think that apathy as crept into the church by and large and that it affects both the traditional church and the contemporary church. For me, I see more passion and something is there that I see missing in many traditional churches, something meaningful. But it's not just the contemporary music. In fact, it doesn't matter if there is any music there, at all. It's the spirit of many of the contemporary church. It's the willingness to say, "hey, something went wrong in the way we've played church over the last 100 years, let's do something to change it." A lot of churches go the wrong way in their remedy for it, some get closer to what it should be but I see a desire for returning to a church that is more meaningful than just playing the part. Reformation is needed in the modern church and I see that happening in church circles where they are willing to step back and take a second look at the way things are done.

[282Mikado]

I don't think that it's fair to blame the current state of Christianity on young people' date=' though.[/b'] I think the fault lies with parents who failed to give their children a solid foundation on Biblical principals.

I don't believe I said that young people were entirely to blame for our current state of church. I painted with a broad brush and there are many fine details underneath that indeed add to the overall picture. I am not in the least surprised to see that you are the first person to find serious fault with my position, but if you ask those that have been around long enough to see the generational impact on society and the church over the past 50+ years, you will see a large percentage agree. History bears out the truth of this as well with each generation bringing about more liberal reform. I believe you referred to it as "personal growth". Liberals call it being "progressive".

I also did not say it was just today's young. My generation was responsible for the largest shift to the left I believe was ever seen in history. Since that time I believe it has accelerated, but the impact has not been as profound as the initial shock brought about in the 60s and 70s.

Parents allow their kids to listen to music that they approve of, be it CCM or traditional. Most parents don't have a problem with CCM.

I don't think you'll find most parents here in agreement with this. My parents hated the music of my day (still do), but I listened to it anyway; just not in the house. It was not until I was near 40 that I saw the evil behind it and got rid of all contemprary music from my life. Did you see that...40...I had already been saved 19 years. What did I do until that time...I went to a church that played contemporary music. I could never go back there now as I see just how much of the world they truly allow.

Many in my current church have raised the children away from today's music and trends and yet there are always some that fall away to some degree and leave the church.

I think the fault lies with parents who failed to give their children a solid foundation on Biblical principals.

Is it their fault the child (of 18 - 22+) strayed? Doubtful. Their Christian upbringing was very sound. The child challenged and strayed. My own son (18), who is doing extemely well in the Navy, does not follow our lead on several things. He doesn't hold to our line on music, fundamental church style, courting or even KJV only. He does not listen to CCM (he likes classical best), but he is open to other styles if he could find one he likes. As of yet he has not been able to find a better alternative for any of them. They gave him a NKJV in Boot Camp and the first thing he asked for was his old KJV because the NKJV was "trash". That does not keep him from looking and pushing the envelope. He is young and he will continue to do so. There are plenty of churches that will allow him to sample a more and more "progressive" Christianity. This is a large part of the problem. Churches and parents are allowing these things into their churches and families and they do it under the guise of not pushing the young away. So we need to compromise our standards so that we don't push away our young? Bad answer.

I know of a solid IFB church that is going through a split right now. You see some of the children are straying from the Lord. One has even turned gay. The parents have asked the pastor not to preach against those things (can you believe the nerve???). He has not succumbed to their pressure and they are leaving to start another church. Another part of the problem. Parents are unwilling to take a firm stand against their children's sin for fear of losing them, or they feel responsible (to some degree) for that sin, or a combination of the two. This pastor handled the situation correctly, but many would cave for fear of losing so much of the congregation. And the church takes another step to the left.

Final point (sorry, I've droned on too long already)

Place two monitors side by side. One playing worldly contemporary music and the other CCM. Turn off the words and watch the audience. Are they all dancing/swaying around in similar fashion? Most likely...I've seen it at Promise Keepers (which I used to attend back in the mid-90s).

Now...honestly tell me that the worldly crowd is being affected by the beat and the rhythm, and the CCM crowd is only being affected by the Lord.