What must I do to be saved?

[kevinmiller]

I think we should look at the passage in context:

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

[deafnva77]

I wonder since I have been baptized, but just don't believe it is necessary.. Does coc333 thinks I am saved? Or do I have to believe baptism is required for salvation in order for my baptism to be worthy?

[trc123]

I wonder since I have been baptized' date=' but just don't believe it is necessary.. Does coc333 thinks I am saved? Or do I have to believe baptism is required for salvation in order for my baptism to be worthy?[/quote']

I had asked that same question in the thread a few days ago. He didn't have a very clear response!

[kevinmiller]

He can't answer it because it would attack his theory. You can't teach baptism being required for salvation without attacking the faith taught in the Bible. The Bible teaches a faith in God alone for salvation and yet if baptism is required then you are forced to have faith in your belief and in your baptism.

[trc123]

He can't answer it because it would attack his theory. You can't teach baptism being required for salvation without attacking the faith taught in the Bible. The Bible teaches a faith in God alone for salvation and yet if baptism is required then you are forced to have faith in your belief and in your baptism.

Spot On! :goodpost:

[Alimantado]

Here's my no-doubt rather naive and uninformed heathen perspective on what coc333 has suggested--and it builds on what I asked about 7 posts ago. Kevin points out that there are some verses that appear to say that baptism is necessary for salvation and there are others that mention only faith/grace. coc333 has reconciled these two supposedly conflicting groups of verses by saying that the ones which do not mention baptism also do not specifically deny its necessity. Therefore, by taking the baptism verses at face value and interpreting the non-baptism verses as simply telling us half the story--i.e. faith is involved but tune in later for the rest--we can reconcile these two groups of verses.

The problem I have is that I've been told the Bible says all scripture is useful and therefore we presumably should be able to point the finger at any verse and ask the question: what is the teaching here? According to coc333 we have loads of verses that only tell half the story in that they talk about salvation whilst omitting to mention that baptism is essential. In fact, going out on a limb here, if there are no verses supporting belief+baptism in Matthew or John, and I have seen none posted here, then it would even be necessary for coc333 to argue that entire gospel books do not teach the whole fundamental plan of salvation. Whilst all this is possible, it does beg some quite essential questions: what is the meaning of the supposedly 'semi-salvation' verses and what is the purpose of entire gospels (Matthew and John) if belief+baptism is true?

Feel free to correct me at length. ;-)

[JerryNumbers]

The thing is, does the Bible contradict itself? My answer to that is no, it does not. I can't answer that question for anyone else.

That said, them lets take a look at some verses.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:36 (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)

These verses is very simple. John 3:36 says, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life," it says nothing about baptizing, if it take baptizing to be saved them this verse is 100% wrong.

Plus this same verse says, " he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him," This verse says he that believeth not shall not see life, it does not say he who is not baptized shall not see life.

Romans 10:9-10, not where in them does it put baptizing saves a person.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 (KJV)

This is one of their faviorte verses, it does no say, he who is not baptizd shall be damned. it does say he that believeth not shall be damned, whihc lines up with John 3:36 and Rmans 10:9-10 which we previously looked at.

Now this verse.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38 (KJV)

If it were not for other verses, which are very plain such as the ones I spoke of above, we just might all think that this verse teaches one has to be baptized to be save, but if being baptized to be saved contradicts some very plain verses, them it must not be teaching baptizing saves a person. So what does it mean.

Its clear, we are baptized because we have already had remission of sin and have been already saved.

A good way to understand this is like this. If I say I took an aspirin for a headache everyone of you would know what I meant, that I took that aspirin because I had a headache, not to get a headache. So this verse means I was baptized because I already had remission of my sin, not for remission of sin.

Besides that, in this verse for means because of.

Plus, if one will study it out, in the Bible we have the example many times, 1st one is saved, them they're baptized, always a saved person getting baptized. Its the 1st step of obedience a person can take after they have been saved. And anyone who refuse to be baptized, and there is not a very good reason they do not get baptized, them I question their salvation. For the Bible says.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:11 (KJV)

The only reason I can think of to keep a person who has the opportunity to be baptized, yet refuses, their ashamed.

When I led my 81 year-old father-in-law to Christ, I explained baptizing to him. The next Sunday morning he was in church, when the invitation was given he stepped out and walked down to the pastor telling him he had accept Jesus as his Savior. That night alone with his 14 year-old grandson he was baptized.

Something about a person, when they truly have been saved, they want to do what is right in the sight of God and its not embarrassing to them.

I might add, that morning after church I got 2 phone calls, they were asking me why I did not tell the everyone about Coy accepting Jesus as his Savior. I told them it was not my place to do that. If anyone was to tell about it, it was Coy's place to. I might add, that next Sunday morning I was at the church I pastor and Coy went to his local church that his wife was a member of, so I did not know he walked the aisle until I received the phone calls, yes, hearing he did this thrilled me to death, but more especially my wife his daughter.

[Alimantado]

If it were not for other verses' date=' which are very plain such as the ones I spoke of above, we just might all think that this verse teaches one has to be baptized to be save, but if being baptized to be saved contradicts some very plain verses, them it must not be teaching baptizing saves a person. So what does it mean.[/quote']
Good post John! So coc333 has done the opposite of what you have above: he has taken Acts 2:38 at face value (like you say we all might if it were alone) and then reinterpreted the many plain verses that don't mention baptism to make them agree with it. But this interpretation makes all those verses incomplete--in terms of what is necessary for salvation--so we would then need to ask why they are even there!?!

[lettheredeemedsayso]

The original question was, "What must I do to be saved ?"

You cannot take one or two verses and make a doctrine out of it. It has to be supported by the whole Bible. Water baptism is not a condition for salvation! It is a witness after we are saved. From the beginning of scripture until the end, salvation has always been by faith alone.

[Alimantado]

For sure. Just in case there's any misunderstanding--it's your interpretation I've been agreeing with!

[JerryNumbers]

Yet some Baptist teach that Acts 2:38 teaches that one is saved by water baptism at one time, that there's more than one way to be save at different times in the history of man.

Yet there is only one way for man to be saved since the begining of time, even Abraham was saved jsut like a person is saved today. Byt faith.

We are saved by believeing that the Savior Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, Abraham and the rest that were born before Christ believe on Christ by believeing that Chrst woudl one day die on the cross for their sins.

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:2 (KJV)

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:3 (KJV)

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Romans 4:9 (KJV)

I'm going to change 2 words in the above verse just to show something.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the baptized only, or upon the unbaptized also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

the point it, circumcision, nor uncircumcision, not baptized or unbaptized never saved a person, but believing, faith, that is what does it.

Romans 4:9 (KJV)

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Romans 4:12 (KJV)

Abraham had the faith even when he was uncircumcised.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 4:16 (KJV)

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Romans 4:17 (KJV)

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:1-2 (KJV)

Seems some think that this believeing on, or putting ones faith in Jesus Christ, is jsut to easy, that they must do something in order to be saved, so some teach one is saved by baptizing and works.

[deafnva77]

it seem that every religion believe in something first. Like they believe baptism saves.. noticed the believe came first for them... yet they don't acknowledge that? What happen if they don't believe in Jesus and baptism? They would never be baptized.


Faith come first. Especially when comes to believing that Jesus saves.

[trc123]

Seems some think that this believeing on' date=' or putting ones faith in Jesus Christ, is jsut to easy, that they must do something in order to be saved, so some teach one is saved by baptizing and works.[/quote']

I hear you and concur.......while it seems "easy" to believe; I'm of the opinion that it is quite a difference between having saving faith/belief and the formula prayer that is touted by so many in soul-winning endeavors and Sunday morning evangelistic preaching the last 25 years.

[Guest Guest]

I acknowledge Faith come first. And that's all I need. Especially when comes to believing that Jesus saves.

Yes! Baptism, as others have said is merely an "outward showing" of our obedience to Jesus Christ "only."

Hello, Coc. :smile May I ask you about what you believe about "death bed" believers? Do you think people can be saved from the death bed? Also, those who cannot be immersed into water for health reasons? The aged? Those in nursing home facilities? The handicapped? I think you know what I mean. :smile How does the Church of Christ respond to these questions? Are these poor souls on their way to Hell according to the doctrine of the Church of Christ?

Epeshians 2:7-9...That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. KJV 1611 AV.

[coc333]

Hello again TRC. With all due respect, you can accuse me of a lot of things but you can't say I haven't been clear about what the Bible teaches on this subject.

I am trying to limit my comments to PM with those who wish to discuss these things with me. Since the question was asked, I will answer it by simply previding the passage that answers it. Acts 2:38. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, feel free to PM me and I would be glad to do so.

In Christ,

Robert