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  1. Jerry, Thank you for clearing that up for me.
  2. Paul was speaking of Biblical Doctrine, not denominational doctrine.
  3. Jerry, Are you saying that the IFB have no traditions?
  4. Jerry, Why would you accuse someone of getting their beliefs "from the RCC?" Unless I am wrong, you believe in the false doctrine of "once saved always saved," did you "get that from Luther? Must have since it isn't taught in the Bible. Once again, the church of Christ is not a denomination; it is not a "part" of the church but is the church which belongs to Christ. We do not get our beliefs from the RCC nor any other denomination. We obtain our beliefs from the one and only source and that is the Word of God. By the way Jerry, most baptist believe in the Word as the only source of authority. Did we get that belief from you guys? Most baptist believe that baptism is by immersion in watter. Did we get that from you?
  5. And therein lies the danger of taking passages out of context, linking passages which are not teaching the same things, etc.
  6. Dennis, First, the thief on the cross died under the OT. He was not under the Christian Age since Christ had not yet died. We also take noted that Christ had the power to fogive sins while He was on earth (Matt 9:6; Mark 2:10; Luke 5:24). Now that He has died, was burried, rose again on the third day and accended back to the father; now that His church has been established we are under the Christian "Age," which means we must submit to Him through the NT teachings. Also, there is nothing that says that the thief was not baptized under John's baptism.
  7. Jerry, There are many differences.
  8. Jerry, A dictionary will define a word in every way that it is used in society. I suggest that you look up the word "baptized" in your dictionary. You might be surprised that one definision includes sprinkling which is not a Biblical definition of the word as even the Baptist admit. Denomination is a part of a whole. The church of Christ is not a part of anything but is in fact a whole; it is the church which Christ established and owns.
  9. Nathaniel, you seem to imply it is either 1 Co 1:10 or Eph 4:3. These two passages are saying the same thing. They are calling for unity not division. They are teaching that Christians are to speak the same things not divide and not to have “unity in diversity,” that is to remain "unified" even though error is being taught and praciticed. There is no unity when error stands against truth. Amos 3:3 comes to mind. When error is taught/practiced, it is those who are teaching/practicing error that are causing division not those who are standing firm on the Truth/Word.
  10. Being in any denomination is a sin. The Bible condemns it and so I must do the same. Ah, Mark 9:38-40….good passage but it does not support denominationalism. Notice that not once did Jesus say that this man taught something other than the truth. As a matter of fact, as you have underlined, he said” he that is not against us is on our part.” If you read the Bible it is clear that those who teach error is not “for us.” You might turn to John 15 where Jesus spoke of the vine and branches. Many people mistakenly turn to that passage to justify denominationalism; it doesn’t teach such either. I have not used circular reasoning. If you have an example of such, please provide it. Yes, you asked me and I answered the question on convenience. The fact is that I just did not answer it the way you wanted me to. It really isn’t a issue of convenience. As I stated, the church is the church regardless of what I say or do. Your implication is, of course, that I am just conveniently labeling “my denomination” (the church of Christ is not a denomination) as the right church. I will not say something that is simply false. No, I am not saying that being a part of any group or association is what puts anyone into “the church.” What the Bible says is that by obeying the Gospel the LORD puts me into THE church. (Acts 2:47) I have read Baptist writings that state that one can be a Christian without being in the Baptist church. Others claim the same thing. If I can be a Christian without being in any denomination and I can then I choose to do so. I choose to be a Christian only. As to the issue of the trinity: I would be concerned if I were teaching error about God. I would be afraid if I were denying that either the Father, the Son, or the HS do not exist. I don’t have a plan of salvation but God’s plan of salvation is that we must Hear (Rom 10:17); believe in Christ (John 3:16); Repent of our sins (Acts 3:19); Confess Christ as the son of God (Matt 10:32-33; Acts 8:36ff); and be immersed in water for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). That is God’s plan since it is His Word, not mine. You are welcome. Again, I am more than happy to discuss the Bible.
  11. You are welcome Rick. 1. Cornelius was not saved prior to baptism. The HS was given in the same way it was in Acts 2 to the Apostles. These two passages (Acts 2 and Acts 10) were the fulfillment of the HS being poured out upon all flesh as we study in Jude 2. This is not speaking of the HS in the sense that Christians receive Him today. This is a much deeper discussion than we will be able to have in one or two sentences. 2. The Bible teaches that when one hears the word (Rom 10:17), believes in Christ (John 3:16), repents of his/her sins (Acts 3:19), confesses Christ as the Son of God (Matt 10:32-33), and immersed in water for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) is saved and Added to the church by the Lord (Acts 2:41, 47). A person who is saved must remain faithful (Rev 2:10). You discuss all of these religious groups. People who participate in such are not being faithful and above that, to my knowledge these groups do not teach such anyway. 3. Convenient? I don’t believe convenience has anything to do with it. It has nothing to do with me in that the church is the church no matter what I personally know, accept or practice. The church is not the church because I am a member of it but because Christ founded it. 4. I am glad that I was able to answer your question. 5. We can’t disagree with the Bible and be a Christian and thus go to heaven. Allow me to clarify. I don’t believe that any of us are perfect nor do I believe that we will get everything perfectly correct. I am sure that there are things that I still don’t understand…well, I know that there are issues which I still do not fully understand; there are certain issues which God does not see the need for us to know/understand everything. But, if we are talking about what it takes to be saved/become a Christian, live faithfully, etc we can understand it and must understand it. Remember that the Word is the Truth (John 17:17) and that it will set us free. (John 8:32) Allow me to ask you a question or two. 1. Can you admit that you and I do not agree with each other on the plan of Salvation? To my understanding, you assert that we are saved by “faith only.” I assert that the Bible teaches that one must, among other things, be baptized for the remission of sins. 2. Are you willing to concede that AT LEAST one of us is INCORRECT in this matter (not discussing which if either is correct)? 3. Do you admit that if you are correct in saying faith only then I am teaching a false doctrine and thus am lost and that all who follow that false doctrine are lost but if I am correct and you are in fact wrong in so much as we do have to be baptized for the remission of sins then you are lost and all who follow that doctrine are lost? Of course, I am guessing that you will admit that if we are both in error then we are both lost? 4. Based on these previous questions, do you see the sinfulness of denominationalism (denominations) which teaches false doctrines on such important subjects as salvation?
  12. Jim, I think there seems to be a misunderstanding in our presrent discourse. When I speak of being disappointed in the behavior of certain Christians, I am not speaking of a willingness to stand for the truth. I am not speaking of those who know the Word and are willing to speak out about it. I am speaking of those who yell, make personal attacks, treat others unkindly.... I am forward in the sense that I am willing to discuss the Word of God. As I have stated in previous post, I believe that any time and any place is the right time and right place to discuss the Word of God. I, to my knowledge, have never made any personal attacks against anyone on this board. I have always tried to be respectful in discussions but I have also not been willing to back down from what the Word teaches. Remember this, Christ was "militant" as was Paul, Peter, and others. I suppose it just depends on what your definition of militant is.
  13. Jim, First allow me to say that I do not who you and Rick and others have been talking with or seeing because most of what I have heard about the church of Christ members which you have "met and or known" are far off from the people that I know. Now, are there some people who profess to be Christians who believe in things contrary to what the Bible says? Of course. Are there people who profess to be Christian who will treat people undkindly? Sadly, yes. I wish that people understood the harm they do by being unkind. But, most members of the church that I know would either not speak at all for fear of saying something wrong or would be joyful to talk with someone about the word of God. At one time I would have fallen into the first group; now I welcome the opportunity to speak to anyone who is willing to discuss the Word. As far as "arguing no matter what scriptures are shown," I could say the same thing for you. I have shown multiple scriptures which clearly contradict many of the things which you are claiming and yet you still refuse to see the truth. As to Saylan and others who might wish to understand more about what we believe, I am more than happy to discuss any point with anyone who wishes to know about something. I will answer any question to the best of my ability and when I might not know something I will be more than happy to study further so that I can answer the question. Am I "militant?" Only as far as the Word of God teaches me to be. It teaches me to contend for the faith (Jude 3), to preach the truth in love (Eph 4:15), etc. I will be glad to look at anything anyone has to say but I will not believe it just because it is said. (1 John 4:1)
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