Question About Preterism

[Alan]

Genevanpreacher,

Your teaching is misleading, half-correct, leaving out important verses, neglecting to teach the entire truth, scorning the proper teaching of Pastor Markle, and scorning my post on Romans 11. Your conclusion, foolish questions, and arguments are incorrect and exposes your willful ignorance of this vital truth and doctrine.  

Romans 11:25 clearly states that this blindness to the nation of Israel is temporary. "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye are wise in your own conceits: that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

Edited September 14, 2015 by Alan
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[Genevanpreacher]

Genevanpreacher,

Your teaching is misleading, half-correct, leaving out important verses, neglecting to teach the entire truth, scorning the proper teaching of Pastor Markle, and scorning my post on Romans 11. Your conclusion, foolish questions, and arguments are incorrect and exposes your willful ignorance of this vital truth and doctrine.  

Romans 11:25 clearly states that this blindness to the nation of Israel is temporary. "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye are wise in your own conceits: that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

So you can't refute my last post?

Sad Alan. You usually make a clearer 'argument'.

My teaching is misleading?

Atleast I have words in the verses saying what I believe.

Show me words Alan.

Show everyone reading this subject Alan, this "vital truth and doctrine".

Show me in words from verses in the NT that SAY what you believe about Israel being restored as a latter day prophecy.

Yes! Blindness until they get saved! 

I believe that Alan! But their job of bringing themselves back into their own land by Christians paying or giving money so they can return to Israel and get ready for some self made tradition, and using the sympathy of Christianity to accomplish that, is not God returning them. It is Christians being USED by godless people for there own cause. 

Once again - If returning to the land of Israel in the 'latter times' was SO important a prophecy, why is it not mentioned in the NT?

Satisfy my poor curiosity and prove my ignorance in front of everyone reading this Alan.

If you do, I will stop. Help me and those who dislike what I and others teach Alan.

Show us all Alan.

[Alan]

The proof has already been laid before for those who eyes to see and ears to hear.

In you last post I sense that an underlying issue is that you resent Christians, or in the case of the United States government sending aid to Israel, to send Israel money because,  and I quote, "It is Christians being used by godless people for there own cause."

I for one, am glad, and honored, that the United States Government has seen fit to send material aid, financial aid, and militay aid to the nation of Israel, "for there own cause."

In fact, if there is any one on OnLine Baptist that is taking donations to the nation of Israel, for any reason that will help the Jews, lost or saved, godly or ungodly, elect or non-elect, please let me know and I will give a sizable financial gift. I will vote for any candidate in the United States that is for the protection and help of the Nation of Israel and I will gladly vote for any politician that will increase our taxes to help the nation of Israel.

I love the Jewish people and I love the State of Israel.  

May God bless the United States of America and the elect, chosen nation of Israel.

Alan

A physical, red-blooded, patirotic, flag waving, son of the United States of America, and a Spiritual son of Israel.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Alan
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[Invicta]

So you can't refute my last post?

Sad Alan. You usually make a clearer 'argument'.

My teaching is misleading?

Atleast I have words in the verses saying what I believe.

Show me words Alan.

Show everyone reading this subject Alan, this "vital truth and doctrine".

Show me in words from verses in the NT that SAY what you believe about Israel being restored as a latter day prophecy.

Yes! Blindness until they get saved! 

I believe that Alan! But their job of bringing themselves back into their own land by Christians paying or giving money so they can return to Israel and get ready for some self made tradition, and using the sympathy of Christianity to accomplish that, is not God returning them. It is Christians being USED by godless people for there own cause. 

Once again - If returning to the land of Israel in the 'latter times' was SO important a prophecy, why is it not mentioned in the NT?

Satisfy my poor curiosity and prove my ignorance in front of everyone reading this Alan.

If you do, I will stop. Help me and those who dislike what I and others teach Alan.

Show us all Alan.

GP I am not Alan but I will answer your post.  

There was a time limit for the Jews to be excluded from the Land.

Lu 21:24  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

God had them led away captive and said when that captivity would end.  As they are now returning to the land, God must have ordered and sanctioned it and the 'times of the gentiles' must be fulfilled of nearly so.

You could try reading The Restoration of Israel by Erroll Hulse.  It is written from a non dispensationalist view.

http://www.amazon.com/Restoration-Israel-Erroll-Hulse/dp/0854790004

I heard some months ago that Mr Hulse was in hospital after a stroke.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Invicta
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[Genevanpreacher]

The proof has already been laid before for those who eyes to see and ears to hear.

In you last post I sense that an underlying issue is that you resent Christians, or in the case of the United States government sending aid to Israel, to send Israel money because,  and I quote, "It is Christians being used by godless people for there own cause."

I for one, am glad, and honored, that the United States Government has seen fit to send material aid, financial aid, and militay aid to the nation of Israel, "for there own cause."

In fact, if there is any one on OnLine Baptist that is taking donations to the nation of Israel, for any reason that will help the Jews, lost or saved, godly or ungodly, elect or non-elect, please let me know and I will give a sizable financial gift. I will vote for any candidate in the United States that is for the protection and help of the Nation of Israel and I will gladly vote for any politician that will increase our taxes to help the nation of Israel.

I love the Jewish people and I love the State of Israel.  

May God bless the United States of America and the elect, chosen nation of Israel.

Alan

A physical, red-blooded, patirotic, flag waving, son of the United States of America, and a Spiritual son of Israel.

 

 

Still no verses.

[Alan]

No more verses are needed. "He that hath ears let him hear." The problem is not what I have taught, nor the scriptures given, nor what not scriptures were not given. The problem is a heart problem. You are seeking answers to your own contentious questions and neither I, neither the scriptures, can help such a contentious spirit.

 

 

 

[Genevanpreacher]

No more verses are needed. "He that hath ears let him hear." The problem is not what I have taught, nor the scriptures given, nor what not scriptures were not given. The problem is a heart problem. You are seeking answers to your own contentious questions and neither I, neither the scriptures, can help such a contentious spirit.

I don't have a contentious spirit at all. I just want others to see how you and others cannot show in words from the scriptures of the NT anywhere where a concern of Israel returning to their land is in any way shape or form a matter of prophecy.

They said that they were in the last days then. Why was it never mentioned about looking for Israel to return?

Because it wasn't.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[John81]

One problem with some folks interpretation of this is that according to their view Israel had to be reestablished before Christ could return. If that's the case, then their contention that the return of Christ has always been imminent couldn't be true. I the restoration of Israel had to precede the return of Christ, then so long as Israel didn't exist that would have been evidence Christ wasn't going to be returning.

Some of these put forth their view that since the time of Christ returning to heaven His return has been imminent. They point out how the early Christians, as recorded in Scripture, were expecting Christ to return soon. Yet then they proceed to put forth arguments why globalization had to occur first, that man having nuclear weapons needed to happen, that Israel had to first be restored, that computers had to become powerful and global, that the UN was necessary, that instant global communication was necessary...all these things and a few others are said to have needed to be in place before Christ could return.

The two main points cancel each other out. If all these things had to come about before Christ could return then His return hasn't been imminent for the vast majority of the past 2,000 years.

Are there conditions before Christ can return or has/is His return imminent?

[Invicta]

That is right John.  When I was taught dispesationalism, we told that Christ could come at any time, there was nothing left to be fulfilled till the rapture.  The revelation was mostly all future.    At their Sunday evening gospel service they often said today may be your last chance as Jesus could return tonight.  In fact our speaker last Sunday morning (non disp) said something similar. I have also heard someone say that the second coming would be after Rome was destroyed , Rev 18.  The same man said he thought the destructionswould be by a submarine because v17 mentions shipmasters, ships,sailors and those that trade by sea. 

I think he may have had a point. Which city killed the aspostles?= Rome.  Which city killed millions of the saints?=Rome Which city was drunk with thy blood of the saints?= Rome. Which city sits on seven Hills (Ch17)  Rome. Which city says she is queen of the earth?. = Rome.

[John81]

Our pastor speaking on this topic and told us (Sunday school class) that if we wanted to think we know what's going happen in the end times just read one book on the subject and never read another! He was saying this in jest, as he pointed out that if you read several books, each from a different perspective, most people will be as, or more confused than when they started.

Since each view put forth has at least some gaps, some questionable aspects, but most do seem to have some points of probable, or at least possible rightness, it may just be that none of the views are totally correct but more of a mix (what the mix might be would be open to more discussion, debate and probably contention!) of some of the views may be closer to correct.

Like our pastor says, if we know we are saved, if we are living for Christ as if He could return at any moment, then we will be ready for whatever comes before, during and after the end times.

Far too much time is spent haggling over details, even minute details, while forsaking the larger, overall picture of end times prophecy which is basically, be sure you are born again, live for Christ as if there is no tomorrow, be found living for the Lord when He does return.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Well, we've gone from civil discussion of a question to chest bumping one another in a "Whatcha lookin' at?" manner.

Mike started the thread, if he feels the thread hasn't played out (or wants the entertainment?), he knows how to unlock it.

Until then ---- thread locked.