The Stars and Bars

[heartstrings]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-college-student-sparks-debate-hanging-confederate-flag-dorm-room-kind-weird-black-article-1.985611

If you heard me speak you would know right away that I'm from the rural Deep South. I'm quite content to be a Southerner and I do all the Southern things. I hunt, farm, drive a pickup truck, love grits, boiled peanuts, turnip greens, corn bread and fried chicken. My 3x great granpappy fought for the Confederacy and my Dad was "camp commander" of the local Sons of Confederate Veterans association. Dad flew the flag regularly in front of his house. I don't. I think the War, by whatever name you know it by, was a long time ago,  I do believe that Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee were very great men of character; much more so than men like U.S. Grant and W. T. Sherman. But the War was lost and it was obviously not God's will to have been otherwise. A lot of people just need to move on.

Several years ago, I was asked by some church members to lead a group of young people, playing music in a local parade. Some of the young guys wanted to fly Confederate flags on the float but I wouldn't allow it. I explained that worldly flags are not what we're about, it is offensive to some people, and why would we want to offend. Is not "the banner" of Christ far more important? So no one flew the flag and some of the parents were disgusted with me. Oh Well, you can't please everyone all the time.

Some people see nothing wrong with the flag and I'm good with that. it means different things to different people; there are even Black people who proudly wave it. But I've seen and experienced a lot of hurt, even in my own life, associated with it too. Is a flag really worth all that? There are way more important things in life than old flags from lost causes. Some people call it their "heritage". But my 3x great grandpa lost two sons, my 2xgreat uncles, in that war; one of them died in battle and the other in a Northern prison camp. I can't imagine the heartbreak and pain he and my 3xgreat grandmother went through. But I prefer the heritage of knowing that my ancestor became a Baptist preacher when he came home. Somehow, I think he found something better than a flag. I could be wrong. What say you?

Edited June 24, 2015 by heartstrings

[heartstrings]

One more thing;

About the flag for the flag's sake, I could take it or leave it.  But if all the push to remove Confederate flags is really about taking away our freedoms, then I'm totally against that.

Edited June 24, 2015 by heartstrings

[Ukulelemike]

I agree-we hold so dearly to the temporal symbols of this life and world, things that will really mean absolutely nothing in the world to come. When we stand and have judged what we built on the foundation of Jesus Christ, all the time wasted on temporal, worldly symbols will be burned away as wood, hay and stubble. Anything that can stand above our Christian faith and brotherhood should be done away with, at least in our hearts. I don't even like flags in our church, though being in a rented hall, we have no real choice.

Just today as the Army depot where I work, I preached the quarterly prayer breakfast; they don't asked often, because I preach, I don't come in and give a feel good homily like most preachers at these things do. Today I preached on 2Chron 7, on praying for the nation, and laid out God's way that we must pray, if we would ask God to bless America. And really, we want God to bless America, but most aren't willing to ask in a way that God will answer. Its just a phrase that, by declaring it, we think it happens.

I have respect for the American flag, for what it represents, and I treat it respectfully, because its not just cloth, its symbolic of what is good and right about America, or what was and should be. But in the end, America is just another nation that will fall and bow to the Lord Jesus Christ. My citizenship is Heaven first, and that flag is much better. 

[Jordan Kurecki]

this might be related, but I can't stand signing patriotic songs in church, I don't come there to worship my country, I come to worship Christ.

I mean I love this country, but like Mike said, I have a far better country.

[John81]

The current battle over Confederate flags is about power, control, cultural cleansing and rewriting history.

With the quick success of getting governors to cave to their demands there are already calls for statues of Confederates to be removed, statues of non-Confederate Southerners to be removed, the names of military bases, roads and other things with Confederate ties to be removed, along with calls to remove the American flag in many places with calls to be rid of the American flag in favor of a new flag.

While I've never flown the stars and bars, which is the First National Flag of the Confederacy, I have flown the Battle Flag which was a flag of the soldiers, not the government. That said, I've not flown any flag for many years now.

I agree with the above statement regarding not singing patriotic songs in church; or other non-Christian songs for that matter.

Recently we attended a Christian event and for some reason they decided among the hymns we sang at the event to add in Battle Hymn of the Republic which is a very unchristian song. While remained standing, neither myself nor anyone in my family sang that song.

As a Christian whose most important citizenship is heaven, realizing temporal things are of exceedingly little importance or value, I mostly try to avoid the bickering battles over most of these temporal things. If asked, I may give my view, but I'm not going to take to the streets over these things or wage an online campaign against them or jump on a boycott bandwagon.

On a more historical note, it's interesting that outside America the Confederate Battle Flag is viewed as a symbol of fighting for liberty, fighting against tyranny. The mainstream media doesn't like to show such images, but I've seen several images of Africans (black Africans) using the Confederate Battle Flag as they fight oppressive governments. When the Berlin Wall came down several in the crowds were cheering and waving Confederate Battle Flags.

Meanwhile, in America we have liberal elites fomenting the erasing of Americas past, the dominating of deciding what is and isn't acceptable, the push for control over virtually everything, and amid all this we have weak supposed conservatives all too quick to bend the knee and bow to so many of their whims in the hopes they will suddenly be liked and accepted.

As Scripture says, people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. America is basing so many decisions today upon perception rather than knowledge. In the process the country becomes more and more divided within and around the world America is viewed mostly in a negative manner.

America was once strong enough to face enemies in the hundreds of thousands and even millions but today she fears a few thousand half way around the world, one or two possible enemies making their way here puts the entire country in panic. Reminds me of God telling the Jews if they obeyed Him their enemies many enemies would flee their few men but if they turned their backs upon God they would see a few of their enemies put their many men to flight.

Meanwhile, Americans think the real fight is over who has the power to decide what kind of cake their business will or won't make and who gets to decide which flags, statues and other symbols are acceptable and which must go.

[Old-Pilgrim]

I think you are right, we are to put Christ before Family, that would include extended Family, Clan, Tribe and Nation. I think it is a similar thing to having things like Mothers day Sunday, or Christmas trees and the likes, it takes away from the the honouring of Christ by fixing the two together. the power of the Spirit is present when Christians gather..... In His Name.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Hi John

I agree with most of your post, Britain is similar in allot of ways, I agree that the Church as a body don't have time to be banner waving and lobbying etc. 2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) so unless we are polotitians as a tent making job...

I just can't see the Apostles queue up to vote.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

I thought that was a good Christian song just used in an unchristian way, I heard it had been 'used' in different ways at different times, Here in Britain they adopt good Christian hymns and use them as football or rugby songs.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Old-Pilgrim

[John81]

Hi,

I agree with most of your post, Britain is similar in allot of ways, I agree that the Church as a body don't have time to be banner waving and lobbying etc. 2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) so unless we are polotitians as a tent making job...

I just can't see the Apostles queue up to vote.

Battle Hymn of the Republic

I thought that was a good Christian song just used in an unchristian way, I heard it had been 'used' in different ways at different times, Here in Britain they adopt good Christian hymns and use them as football or rugby songs.

The woman who wrote Battle Hymn of the Republic was a unitarian who believed man had to make the world perfect so Christ would return. Portions of the song which most people think are about Jesus, God and biblical matters were actually her referring to Lincoln, the Union army and their works. The song is actually very humanist and unbiblical.

If you can find it, there is a copy of her hand written lyrics with her notes on them about these things.

That song is akin to some of the popular songs of the 1960s which on the surface seemed to be saying one thing but were actually saying something else; often references to drugs.

[Old-Pilgrim]

The woman who wrote Battle Hymn of the Republic was a unitarian who believed man had to make the world perfect so Christ would return. Portions of the song which most people think are about Jesus, God and biblical matters were actually her referring to Lincoln, the Union army and their works. The song is actually very humanist and unbiblical.

If you can find it, there is a copy of her hand written lyrics with her notes on them about these things.

That song is akin to some of the popular songs of the 1960s which on the surface seemed to be saying one thing but were actually saying something else; often references to drugs.

You'll be right then, it is surprising how many songs are spiritual in content either mocking truth or promoting the new age, but they range from overt to covert to debatable content. When I first got saved and was at work hearing the radio for what seemed like the first time it fair knocked me for six. I remember the lyrics 'on went the animals two by two, but me and you got lost in the jungle baby' , and latter,  'were justified and were ancient and we like to roam the earth' i.e. Nephilim or devils who 'believe'. it is like when David said I am the subject of their song'.

[Jordan Kurecki]

You'll be right then, it is surprising how many songs are spiritual in content either mocking truth or promoting the new age, but they range from overt to covert to debatable content. When I first got saved and was at work hearing the radio for what seemed like the first time it fair knocked me for six. I remember the lyrics 'on went the animals two by two, but me and you got lost in the jungle baby' , and latter,  'were justified and were ancient and we like to roam the earth' i.e. Nephilim or devils who 'believe'. it is like when David said I am the subject of their song'.

if you listen to the music on the radio a lot of it really is like listening to the voice of Satan in a very scary and real way.

It's a battlefield brother not a recreation room, it's a fight and not a game.

[John81]

if you listen to the music on the radio a lot of it really is like listening to the voice of Satan in a very scary and real way.

It's a battlefield brother not a recreation room, it's a fight and not a game.

When people listen to secular music a lot they don't seem to notice what's actually be said or promoted in songs. Once you've been away from it and then listen to it, what's actually being said and promoted can really stand out. Even today I will sometimes hear a song from my youth playing in a business and I'll catch a portion of lyric I never realized was in the song or what it actually was saying.

It's the same with TV, even the news. Watch no TV or news for six months or longer and then watch a little and the lies, deceptions and manipulations become so clear.

It's no coincidence that with thousands of newsworthy stories every day in this country alone, along with thousands more around the world, the mainstream media will focus on the same handful of stories. What they really love is when one "big story" breaks and they can just focus everyones attention on that while not having to report anything else.

The father of lies is very busy using his people in the media and government to work evil.

[ThePilgrim]

The SJWs or Social Justice Warriors, as some call the liberals who want to control how everyone thinks an what everyone must believe, are after the Stars and Bars again and again for no good reason.  When these control freaks have finally pushed too far maybe those who like the Star and Bars flag will make a slight change in it when they decide to rebel against the liberal idiots.  

 

 

[Old-Pilgrim]

if you listen to the music on the radio a lot of it really is like listening to the voice of Satan in a very scary and real way.

It's a battlefield brother not a recreation room, it's a fight and not a game.

Amen.

I have nearly always worked in factories where radio is compulsory because most people like it, and at times so loud it really beggars belief. Fortunately at the moment I am working with reasonable people and I was able to move the speaker away from my ear, so I don't relay hear the words now, I can also hear myself think. Once or twice when the radio was way too loud and the noise of machines and being work stressed, I have heard what sounded sort of like a demonic voice over coming through all the noise together, sort of like the band Iron Maiden. I used to almost see the spiritual warfare it was so tangible, and relentless, fortunately Gods grace can give us refuge. It is a battle for sure. Another Luciferic song lyric is one by Robbie Williams, which goes... 'let me entertain you..I'm a burning effigy Of everything I used to be You're my rock of empathy, my dear' IE Lucifer fallen from heaven. & 'I will be your rock of ages' .

[John81]

The SJWs or Social Justice Warriors, as some call the liberals who want to control how everyone thinks an what everyone must believe, are after the Stars and Bars again and again for no good reason.  When these control freaks have finally pushed too far maybe those who like the Star and Bars flag will make a slight change in it when they decide to rebel against the liberal idiots.  

 

 

(nice flag!)

The "offended ones" are now not only trying to ban all things Confederate related, they are working to have statues of President Washington and President Jefferson removed as well. There are also a few calling for the discarding of the American flag, to be replaced by a flag design of their choosing.

[Potatochip]

When I moved south from NY.  One thing I did find were boiled peanuts.  I really like them.  There is fried chicken in NY so that was nothing new.  Greens are ok to.  I like corn bread ok but it upsets me because it breaks apart easy lol.  So I take a roll instead.   You left out pecan pie which I really like.

The south is a friendly place to me much more friendly than hustle bustle NY.  Where you keep an eye out for strangers.  Then again I am not from NY originally.  I'm not a big fan of NY.

There are a lot of misunderstandings it seems Rural vs City I have noticed.  People that live in the rural areas afraid of the city because all the news is located in the big city.  Thats where they focus.  They think somethings going to happen if they go there.  On the other hand people in the city in a lot of cases feel the same way about rural areas.  Fear.  They aren't like me.  I get to observe both.  Its really funny to watch when they figure out that each other are Bible believing Christians.  lol.  More than interesting.  For instance Kenny Chesney concert   Lot of city people standing around.  I'm thinking watch this.  lol.  Not to many country western bands at the stadium in the city.   Handing tracts out left and right a lot of those concert goers saying bless you to me.  Those city boys standing there with their jaws dropped open lol.  I don't think liberal vs conservative.   City vs Rural really grasps whats going on if they get what they think from television and radio.  For example I think Deliverance a popular movie had a very prejudiced slant at the rural south. Among other things. Talk about not hitting target groups they just let it fly.  Unless of course they are trying to sell you something lol. 

You can be a Bible believing Christian,  saved by faith not by works.  Sealed until the day of redemption and vote Democrat.  Isn't going to affect your salvation.  I wouldn't make assumptions. If your poor your going to vote and think that way for your family. If you think the poor get robbed it becomes a cause.  It's a case of darn if you do darn if you don't.  You take care of your own.   I have been in that city for over 14 years.  Like hearstrings pointed out what was greater?  The salvation brought to the affected people that are now Christian or the war.  What brought more freedom?  What was more important. I learned that from Bible believing city Christians too.   Salvation is more important of course. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2015 by Potatochip