Just because someone says....

[DaveW]

There seem to be some here who are inclined to simply accept what people say as truth without examining it.

For instance, when someone says "I am not a Calvinist" but then the promote the TULIP doctrines, or "the doctribes of grace",then guess what?

They are a Calvinist.

 

When someone says they are "IFB equivalent" but the group they are actually associated with includes charismatics, infant baptisers, baptismal regenerationist, and the doctrinal statement they are signed up to is ecumenical and universal church, then guess what?

They are not IFB equivalent.

 

When some protests that they are not Replacement theologist but say things like "The church is the continuing children of Israel, children of God.", then guess what?

They replace Israel with the church.

 

When a freemason says it is only a social club, he either does not know about the deeper workings or he is lying - but it doesn't change what the organisation is.

 

Now when someone makes these claims that are not true, there are two valid possibilities:

1. They are themselves deceived and do not know or possibly do not understand the truth; or

2. They know exactly what they are doing, which makes them a deceiver themselves.

 

The point is that just because some makes a claim, that does not make their claim true.

Some of the people in such groups actively seek to hide the truth of what they are and what they are associated with, while some of them do not know themselves the truth of what they are involved in - but it does not change the nature of what they are involved in.

The majority of Mormons do not know nor understand the depth of occultic practice that goes on in hidden places of their Temples. This is actively hidden from the average member, and only becomes known once a person is heavily invested in the group.

When they deny certain goings on, they do so with genuine belief in what they say,  but they are still wrong.

[Salyan]

You're right. Just because someone makes a claim, it does not make their claim true. That also holds true to the claims made in this post. I don't like veiled accusations. 

[DaveW]

Valid, relevant, and accurate examples....

If they are wrong examples then by all means correct them.

[Salyan]

Just because someone points out that many masons think they are in a social club and do not realize the deeper aspects of the organization, does not make that person a deceiver or deceived - yet the implications of your statement suggest that. When you start your statement with 'there are some here' it implies that you are making these statements against certain people on this site. By all means, point out fallacious assumptions like those above, but do not start another witch hunt (or should I say, wolf hunt). Like I said, I do not like veiled accusations. 

[DaveW]

I think you over-reading my intent, but I am not going to argue.

If it is inappropriate then do whatever you have to.......

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There seem to be some here who are inclined to simply accept what people say as truth without examining it.

For instance, when someone says "I am not a Calvinist" but then the promote the TULIP doctrines, or "the doctribes of grace",then guess what?

They are a Calvinist.

 

When someone says they are "IFB equivalent" but the group they are actually associated with includes charismatics, infant baptisers, baptismal regenerationist, and the doctrinal statement they are signed up to is ecumenical and universal church, then guess what?

They are not IFB equivalent.

 

When some protests that they are not Replacement theologist but say things like "The church is the continuing children of Israel, children of God.", then guess what?

They replace Israel with the church.

 

When a freemason says it is only a social club, he either does not know about the deeper workings or he is lying - but it doesn't change what the organisation is.

 

Now when someone makes these claims that are not true, there are two valid possibilities:

1. They are themselves deceived and do not know or possibly do not understand the truth; or

2. They know exactly what they are doing, which makes them a deceiver themselves.

 

The point is that just because some makes a claim, that does not make their claim true.

Some of the people in such groups actively seek to hide the truth of what they are and what they are associated with, while some of them do not know themselves the truth of what they are involved in - but it does not change the nature of what they are involved in.

The majority of Mormons do not know nor understand the depth of occultic practice that goes on in hidden places of their Temples. This is actively hidden from the average member, and only becomes known once a person is heavily invested in the group.

When they deny certain goings on, they do so with genuine belief in what they say,  but they are still wrong.

​I've never been in any Baptist Church that did not teach some form of a Replacement Theology. 

[robmac68]

Just because someone points out that many masons think they are in a social club and do not realize the deeper aspects of the organization, does not make that person a deceiver or deceived - yet the implications of your statement suggest that. 

​I read his statement several times and I don't get what you are saying.  He stated that "When a freemason says".  Your reply says "just because someone".  The two don't match.  Dave was stating the freemason himself was making the statement.  And what he said is very true.  The free mason himself is either deceived or a deceiver.   Now if someone that is naive about masons and states that "alot of masons might think they are just in a social club" ...that person might not be deceived or a deceiver, just naive, but the way DaveW's statement reads, he was not talking about that person.  He was talking about the actual mason.  His statement is spot-on about the actual mason.

Edited June 2, 2015 by robmac68

[John81]

As another member pointed out in a different thread, everyone isn't at the same stage of spiritual growth. When the Lord chooses to help someone have more light on a particular topic is something unique between God and each individual.

For instance, I've personally been involved with witnessing to Catholics who came to Christ and immediately recognized their need to separate from the RCC. I've also known of other Catholics who came to Christ yet didn't have any compulsion to leave the RCC for a year or two.

The Spirit moves in one believer to separate himself from his political affiliations, civic groups, clubs or organizations, but doesn't move upon another in the same way at the same time.

It's not always a matter of whether one is living a lie or walking in deception just because they have some connection with a wayward or bad church, group or association; it may simply be a matter of them walking in the limited light they have received at that point.

Hopefully none of us are at the same level of spiritual maturity today as we were ten years ago. Most of us have experienced many big changes in our thinking, associations and overall lives since we first came to Christ and they didn't all happen at the same time.

Since we don't know the heart or mind of another we take a huge leap if we presume to tell another what it is they really think or believe. That's a common tactic of liberals and often plays out like this: a conservative says they don't believe welfare should be expanded so the liberal shouts that what the conservative really means is they don't care about children.

We would all be so much better off spending time in the Word, sharing the Word, seeking to help one another in love than accusing others, name calling, condemning or attacking. Christ says the world will know us by our love one for another. If the world isn't clearly seeing our love for one another, we ourselves are not rightly following Christ.

{So as not to be misunderstood, I want to make it very clear that this post is speaking of all of us (Christians, including myself) and is not directed at any particular individual here or anywhere else}

[robmac68]

If a person isn't at the spiritual maturity to come to an understanding about the wrong doings of a particular group or church, wouldn't it be safe to say they are being deceived by that particular group or church?  To be deceived is to be misled by a false appearance or statement.  A person might not have the spiritual maturity to see through this false appearance so they continue to "walk in deception" or spiritual immaturity.    

[Ukulelemike]

If a person isn't at the spiritual maturity to come to an understanding about the wrong doings of a particular group or church, wouldn't it be safe to say they are being deceived by that particular group or church?  To be deceived is to be misled by a false appearance or statement.  A person might not have the spiritual maturity to see through this false appearance so they continue to "walk in deception" or spiritual immaturity.    

​Very true, and it is up to those who ARE at a greater place of maturity to gently and lovingly lead them in truth, but also to be patient with them.