Understanding Hebrews - 3

[Alan]

Covenanter wrote:

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:  

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews is quoting Haggai 2:5-9  & Hag. 2:20-23 a message delivered as the temple was being rebuilt after the captivity in Babylon. They are now obediently rebuilding the temple, as Daniel put it, to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince.   

And

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

The temple, & Jerusalem are about to be destroyed according to Jesus' Olivet prophecy. All those things that are shaken, as of things that are made will be removed - & were in AD 70. What would remain would be the spiritual realities, worship in spirit & in truth, the living temple built with living stones etc. The priesthood of believers under our Great High Priest the only sacrifice. The message of Habakkuk stands to this day - the just shall live by faith. And of course the Word of God spoken first by his prophets, & in these last days by his Son & confirmed by his Apostles. These are those things that cannot be shaken.

I do not believe that Scripture prophesies a rebuilding of the things that are made at the end of time. Any attempt to do so will be in unbelief, in defiance of the judgment of Christ, & will be without prophetic significance. We are living by faith in our Lord Jesus Christ & his finished work. Our hope in is his glorious return for resurrection & judgment. 

AlanTaiwan Response:

Brethren, please take careful note, when the writer of Hebrews quoted Haggai he only quoted Haggai 2:6 he did not quote Haggai 2:7-9 and he not Haggai 2:20-23

Hebrews 12:25 & 26, ”See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.”

Haggai 2:6, “For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land.” Also, the writer of Hebrews, under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, purposely left out, “...and I will shake the heavens...”

Why? The shaking of the heavens, and the rest of Haggai’s prophecy (Haggai 2:7-9 and 20-23), is a future prophecy as yet unfulfilled.

Furthermore, in Hebrews 12:26 the writer separated the shaking of the earth and the shaking of the heavens and made direct reference that the shaking of the heaven is in the future; “Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.” Hebrews 12:26

Yes, the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, but that is not what Haggai and the writer of Hebrews is referring to and is only a partial fulfillment of the prophesies of the Lord Jesus in Matthew chapter 24 & 25

In conclusion, Haggai 2:7 is a direct reference to the Millennial Temple (Revelation 20:3-6), as prophesied by Ezekiel chapter 40-48; Haggai 2:7, “And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.” When Titus destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. only the nation of Israel was affected, not”...all nations...”

“...the shaking of all nations...” my friends will take place in the Tribulation period and the climax will take place in Revelation chapter 19 and 20.

 

[Covenanter]

Time and again your false views on AD70 and the destruction of the temple have been pointed out and shown to be unbiblical.

There is no point in rehashing the information, for you disregard it no matter how it is presented.

No. ​I do not disregard contrary information. I normally answer it with Scripture. There is of course NOTHING false about believing that Jesus prophesied the destruction which occurred in AD 70. 

The question here is whether Hebrews was teaching that the 40 year (aka this generation) warning was approaching, & so gave tremendous to his encouragement to his readers to claim the great salvation to be found in Christ, rather than Moses, or is he referring to prophecies that could be many years hence. 

It is, of course, easy to read the quotation from Haggai as relating to Jesus final return in glory for resurrection, & judgement, when everything earthly & temporal will be consumed &the NH&NE brought into being - that is certainly prophesied. But is it what Hebrews is saying here, in context?  The whole letter stresses the urgency of the situation, for his readers. We read the epistles for general instruction. They were written & read in a living situation. 

Note :

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 Hebrews is addressing "we" both receiving the kingdom, & serving God acceptably. Not a future millennial kingdom, but present tense. We are citizens of Jesus' Kingdom of Heaven. 

 

 

[Invicta]

Time and again your false views on AD70 and the destruction of the temple have been pointed out and shown to be unbiblical.

There is no point in rehashing the information, for you disregard it no matter how it is presented.

​ Are you suggesting that the disaster at Ad 70 was not important and was not prophesied in scripture..  You keep making snide remarks but rarely quote scripture.

[Covenanter]

See my reply to Wretched.

AlanTaiwan Response:

Brethren, please take careful note, when the writer of Hebrews quoted Haggai he only quoted Haggai 2:6 he did not quote Haggai 2:7-9 and he not Haggai 2:20-23

Hebrews 12:25 & 26, ”See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.”

Haggai 2:6, “For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land.” Also, the writer of Hebrews, under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, purposely left out, “...and I will shake the heavens...”

Why? The shaking of the heavens, and the rest of Haggai’s prophecy (Haggai 2:7-9 and 20-23), is a future prophecy as yet unfulfilled.

Furthermore, in Hebrews 12:26 the writer separated the shaking of the earth and the shaking of the heavens and made direct reference that the shaking of the heaven is in the future; “Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.” Hebrews 12:26

Yes, the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, but that is not what Haggai and the writer of Hebrews is referring to and is only a partial fulfillment of the prophesies of the Lord Jesus in Matthew chapter 24 & 25

In conclusion, Haggai 2:7 is a direct reference to the Millennial Temple (Revelation 20:3-6), as prophesied by Ezekiel chapter 40-48; Haggai 2:7, “And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.” When Titus destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. only the nation of Israel was affected, not”...all nations...”

“...the shaking of all nations...” my friends will take place in the Tribulation period and the climax will take place in Revelation chapter 19 and 20.

 

 

Hebrews is quoting Haggai to make his message clear to his readers. Turn to Jesus TODAY & stop trusting in Moses & the old covenant. Haggai was encouraging the temple rebuilding for Messiah & was being encouraged to continue zealously - God's plans are for eternity, & the work of Haggai, & Zerubabel, Joshua & Zechariah will be honoured when Messiah comes. Zerubbabel gets a special promise, as he is in the line of kings, & human ancestor of Messiah. 

 

I agree that Haggai's prophecy goes beyond the coming of Christ & the subsequent destruction, to the glories of the NH&NE. We can discuss that separately. Possible in your Revelation study.

 

Hebrews is concerned with the actual situation in Jerusalem. We can read about the confusion there on Paul's final visit. Acts 21:17-40 Christians were continuing in the temple & offering sacrifices. Hebrews stresses that that situation is coming to an end. The time has come to commit completely to Jesus. TODAY! 

 

Heb. 8:4-7 shows that the temple & old covenant ordinances are examples & shadows of heavenly things. Therefore the glories Haggai prophesies are of the ultimate manifestation of the all-glorious NH&NE reality. 

 

The choice is Moses, with all the terrors of the old covenant Heb. 12:13-21 or Jesus and the glories of the new covenant. Heb. 12:22-24 Be warned! The things that can be shaken will be shaken & removed. Hold fast to the things that cannot be shaken. Jesus kingdom of which we are citizens by faith.