Dispensations

[Genevanpreacher]

Yes, o' teacher of the mysteries.

I am ok now, thank you. I fell asleep.

 

Are you really serious about this stuff you are putting out, or are you pulling our spiritual legs?

RCC doctrine in any Baptist Church makes it not a Baptist Church, right?

 

So what's the prOBlem?

Don't associate. Don't contact in any way. They are OBviously reprOBate concerning the faith.

Let them alone, the blind will be followers of the blind and both will fall into the ditch.

 

Walk on.

 

However... if I were you, I might consider 'why' you think 'they' are reprOBate, and not yourself.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Gen, we are discussing how RC traditions have infiltrated influence Baptist theology.  It has and I only give some easily seen ones.

 

say what you like. 

 

It doesn't make it any less true.

 

Did you go to "the house of God" today?

[Covenanter]

Salvation is faith upon the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. His substitutionary death upon the cross is the gospel Paul preached and gave

 

1Cor 15:1-4 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.   For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

That is the gospel Paul preached nothing more nothing less.

 

You have believed in vain if you do not LIVE BY FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[prophet1]

dispensation: a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time.

That isn't what it meant in 1611.

Also, it wasn't what Pez meant, when I bought my Spiderman head dispenser.

It meant "giving out".

[AVBibleBeliever]

You have believed in vain if you do not LIVE BY FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ.

My life has not been in vain

 

I have lived by faith for 21 years in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Even up unto this day, even the faith of Jesus Christ has provided for me and mine for over 15 years in his service of taking the gospel of the Grace of God to the lost in this world.

 

Not one pastor, missionary or preachers has ever given an invitation for anyone to believe that Jesus is the Messiah.  But everyone of them has given an invitation for them to believe that Jesus died for their sins to be saved.

[MountainChristian]

Jewish Christians do when they talk to lost Jews. The new testament is rejected by the Jewish lost, so they use the old testament to prove Jesus was their Messiah. 

[Ukulelemike]

Gen, we are discussing how RC traditions have infiltrated influence Baptist theology.  It has and I only give some easily seen ones.

 

say what you like. 

 

It doesn't make it any less true.

 

Did you go to "the house of God" today?

I met with the house of God today

 

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1Tim 3:15)

[Ukulelemike]

Jewish Christians do when they talk to lost Jews. The new testament is rejected by the Jewish lost, so they use the old testament to prove Jesus was their Messiah. 

And of course, we must remember that while Jesus, the Messiah, was promised to Israel, He was prmise long before there were any children of Israel, or and Jews or Hebrews. He was forst promised to Adam and Eve, later to Abraham, etc. He was technically first promised to Gentiles. To continue to insist there was some special gospel just to the Jews is silly.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Exactly!  While there were different dispensations, (ages) the Gospel has remained the same throughout.

[John81]

One Gospel for all people for all time.

[AVBibleBeliever]

No one not even Jews are saved today by believing Jesus is the Messiah. Not one mention by Paul that one MUST believe he is the Christ, or that he is the Messiah, or that he is the Son of God.  Believing that Jesus is the Messiah for salvation would bring a curse upon those who preach it and those who accept that false condition for salvation would remain under the sin curse, which is "Eze 18:20a The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

 

Gal 1:7-9 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.   But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.   As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

They must believe That Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins.  The key is died on the cross for their sins, was buried and rose on the third day.  All men today are saved this way.

 

1Cor 15:1-4 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.   For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

Anyone, who rejects the gospel of the grace of God for Salvation by the substitutionary death of Christ on the Cross or adds to this gospel that they MUST believe that Jesus is the Messiah, is not saved. 

 

 1Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
 1Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

 

This is far from easy believism. 

 

It would seem anyone who preaches that a person must believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah or the son of God to be saved is the real easy believism Gospel for there is no preaching of the cross in that message.

 

 

[DaveW]

The Christ

Mat 16:15  He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 

16  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 

17  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 

18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 

19  And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 

 

The confession - that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is what Jesus would build His church upon.

 

Joh 4:42  And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. 

(See Messiah below)

 

1Jn_5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 

 

 

 

Messias (Messiah)

Joh 4:25  The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 

26  Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 

27  And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? 

28  The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 

29  Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 

 

 

Believe that He is the Son of God.

 

Joh_3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 

 

Joh 9:35  Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 

36  He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 

37  And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 

38  And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. 

 

Joh 11:27  She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. 

 

Joh_20:31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. 

 

Act_8:37  And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 

 

Act_9:20  And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. (Saul preaching here).

 

Rom 1:3  Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 

4  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 

5  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for OBedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 

6  Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 

 

2Co_1:19  For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 

 

1Jn_4:15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 

 

1Jn_5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 

 

1Jn_5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 

 

You will note that Jesus, John, Philip, and yes, even Saul (Paul) used these terms in relation to salvation.

[Alimantado]

Anyone, who rejects the gospel of the grace of God for Salvation by the substitutionary death of Christ on the Cross or adds to this gospel that they MUST believe that Jesus is the Messiah, is not saved. 

 

I've not heard any of the regular folk on this forum say anything along the lines of the Gospel not including Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, so I wonder who you have in mind for the first part of your sentence, AVBB.

 

As for the second part (and this is for others, not you, AVBB--see below), I do actually have some sympathy for this view. For example, if a person must know that Jesus is the Son of God, then how correct must their Christology be before it is enough? Let's say that a person's understanding of 'Son of God' is very basic: they believe that Jesus is God in a way they don't fully understand, but they can't describe the exact nature of Jesus as the second person of the Trinity, nor have they considered what this means for His pre-existence. Would such a person know too little to be saved?

 

On the flipside, doesn't a person have to have at least some inkling of who Jesus was, i.e. His divinity? For example, if a person believes that Jesus died and rose again for our sins, but they also think that 'Jesus' was the name of a giraffe that the romans were keeping at a zoo in Jerusalem, and that it was this 'Jesus' that got crucified at Calvary, can it really be said that they understand the Gospel?

 

By the way, AVBB, before you reply to the second and third paras by accusing me of 'sophism' because I include hypotheticals, let me just say that those questions are for others on this forum.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

But these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that believing ye might have life through His name. John 20:31

What Jesus was John speaking of in that verse? Certainly not a giraffe in a zoo!

He was speaking of "the Christ","the Messiah", the Only begotten Son of God, the Lamb of God sent from Heaven to die for the sins of the world. One cannot be saved by believing on another Jesus. One must believe on the one who the Bible said will crush the head of the serpent; the one who would be born of a virgin, died on a cross and rose again.

In other words, one must believe in the Jesus of the Bible, the only Way to the Father, or one cannot be saved.

The solution? Preach the true Jesus in your witnessing to the lost, not a fairy tale Jesus that has no power to save.

[John81]

Scripture does seem to be pretty clear on this.