Understanding Hebrews -2

[Genevanpreacher]

Hebrews ch. 1-12 is NOT a letter, it is a "sermon" - chapter 13 is an addendum, which later allowed copying and distribution to synagogues throughout the Roman Empire.

Hebrews ch. 1-12 was delivered in front of synagogue "assemblies" as a sermon, by believers such as Apollos and other "eloquent" Jewish believers.  There were no organized "Christian churches" at that time.

The only organized religious "assemblies" (ekklesia) were the Jewish synagogues, and the message of the Gospel was first delivered to the local synagogue.  Later, there were "home churches" for believers.

 

All you have to do is read Hebrews 1-12 as a unified whole, beginning with "God" and ending with "our God is a consuming fire", to see the eloquence displayed.  It is regarded as the finest example of polished Koine Greek.

 

A source for this info?

Interesting, and just wondered where you got this from.

[John81]

Bible shredding for false teachers by Lucifer press.

[Genevanpreacher]

I like asking sources, yet I also have been in situations where I didn't record 'my source'.

Embarrassing.

 

So if he has no source, I have been there.

 

Yet I really would like to know.

I have never heard that before, and I have read 'mega-bunches' of biblical history info.

[John81]

I understand, I'm just in good humour tonight.

 

I've heard that teaching before, but only from those who dissect the Bible until it's no longer what God gave us. Thus far, the only sources I've heard any site are from among themselves.

[Genevanpreacher]

I just wonder who it was that decided it was for the benefit of 'the church' to teach 'division' rather than doctrine.

PrOBably someone needing support for their 'mission'.

[Genevanpreacher]

I just wonder who it was that decided it was for the benefit of 'the church' to teach 'division' rather than doctrine.

 

I just wonder who it was that decided it was for the benefit of 'the church' to teach 'division' rather than doctrine.

 

I just wonder who it was that decided it was for the benefit of 'the church' to teach 'division' rather than doctrine.

 

Still a wonderin'!

[Covenanter]

Heb. 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying , Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest . 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

It's wonderful to be God's people. It's a relationship that endures through life, death to all eternity. Rev. 21:1-7

 

Now the Hebrews were in danger of clinging to the old covenant & the Law of Moses, but soon every aspect of that covenant would vanish away. Come to Jesus TODAY. There will not be a tomorrow for that generation. As Paul wrote: 1 Thes. 2:

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved , to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

That judgement was completed with the destruction. The Gospel was & is still open. We need to remember there is no enduring curse on the Jews - their self curse is annulled by the Gospel, when they repent:

Mat. 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said , His blood be on us, and on our children.

 

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off , even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

The Hebrews have not been under 2,000 years of judgement - countless of them have trusted Jesus as Lord, Christ & Saviour down the ages. The are counted as a nation open to the Gospel. God does not shut them out. Sadly that has meant rejection by their community, & happily a welcome into the church, the body of Christ, the spiritual, living temple. As Peter wrote:

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

 

[Covenanter]

Deut. 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt OBey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed , and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good , and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies , and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8 And thou shalt return and OBey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

 

Eze. 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean : from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

 

Those promises were not fulfilled in the reurn from exile in Babylon - which Jeremiah & Ezekiel would have hoped. Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai & Zechariah record further troubles, & promises. Israel was still waiting for Messiah who would fulfil all the promises. We know that the nation leaders rejected their Messiah, but we also know that many thousands of the people did accept him, particularly the Apostolic Gospel. Why did God not remove the many antichrists & set up the Apostles to rule the nation kingdom? 

 

Mat. 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

 

If Jesus had then returned to the temple, & denounced those who had crucified him, the people would have flocked to his banner, & the rulers would have fled.

 

BUT prophecy would not have been fulfilled. The Kingdom would have been carnal, and Jesus would have been acting as tempted by Satan by gaining the Kingdom by wrong means. His Kingdom requires renewed hearts, & the indwellling Holy Spirit enabling fruitful & OBedient lives.

 

OT prophecy speaks of those blessings in terms of dwelling at peace in the promised land, but Hebrews speaks of a better covenant with better promises.

 

Heb. 8:6 But now hath he OBtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

 

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying , Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 

Should we be surprised that in the NT, under the New Covenant, the promises regarding the promised land are never renewed? Hebrews speaks of attitude of the Patriarchs:

 

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out , they might have had opportunity to have returned . 16 But now they desire a better country, that is , an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

The New Covenant promises teach that we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. That eternal Kingdom will be much more glorious than a millennial kingdom populated ultimately by rebellious sinners & which is destroyed by fire from heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve Schwenke]

Ian, your (continued) prOBlem is your inability to read.  The Bible does not end in Rev. 20 (the Millenial Kingdom.)  It ends with Rev. 21-22, the Eternal Kingdom.  The Millenial Kingdom proves that man is incurably wicked, and cannot please God even in a perfect environment, even when Satan is bound with chains of iron.  Man blames the Devil; God removes the Devil from the equation; Man still sins; God is justified in His judgment of every lost sinner (see Rom. 3:4).  Notice, the final judgment of man occurs at the close of the Millenial Kingdom described in Rev. 20, and before the Eternal Kingdom where nothing vile will enter (Rev. 21:27). 

 

It really is not all that difficult if you simply believe what is written - literally.

[Covenanter]

Ian, your (continued) prOBlem is your inability to read.  The Bible does not end in Rev. 20 (the Millenial Kingdom.)  Agreed

 

It ends with Rev. 21-22, the Eternal Kingdom.  Agreed

 

The Millenial Kingdom proves that man is incurably wicked, and cannot please God Agreed even in a perfect environment, even when Satan is bound with chains of iron.  Man blames the Devil; God removes the Devil from the equation; Man still sins; I follow your argument. Man is by nature wicked, & will continue in sin apart from salvation in Christ. I will discuss the millennium in the millennium thread.

 

God is justified in His judgment of every lost sinner (see Rom. 3:4).  Notice, the final judgment of man occurs at the close of the Millenial Kingdom described in Rev. 20, and before the Eternal Kingdom where nothing vile will enter (Rev. 21:27). Agreed

 

It really is not all that difficult if you simply believe what is written - literally.

[Covenanter]

As we move from Heb. 8 to 9, we see the way the covenants are applied. The writer makes it very cear that the OC is coming to a complete end:

13 In that he saith , A new covenant, he hath made the first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

 

In Heb. 9:1-10 the details of the OC are listed, with the proviso:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

If you cling to the OC, with its sacrifices & ordinances, & turn away from Christ, then you are clinging to a way that cannot make you perfect. There is a better way; a better sacrifice; a better covenant.

 

We should not miss a point that is made in the Gk: In Heb. 6:

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do , if God permit.

He wants to teach the significance of baptism, & in Heb. 9:10 the washings are a translation of the same word used for baptisms in Heb. 6:2 . Jesus uses the same Gk word when he refers the Jews' ceremonial washing:

 

Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing ^G909 of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

 

So what does Christian baptism do, that the OC washing rituals did not? Hebrews gives examples of the OC washings contrasted with baptism. First Num. 19, which is the "red heifer" ritual for those ceremonially defiled by contact with the dead. That ritual was an external cleansing, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience.

 

By contrast, the NC baptism signifies inward, conscience cleansing:

9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Incidentally, this passage is used by those who practise sprinkling baptism, as the OC washings were sprinklings. Peter also writes of baptism cleansing the conscience: 1 Peter 3:21. The applied blood of the OC sacrifices were examples of the applied blood of Christ, here baptism signifying the cleansing blood.

 

The further example of the OC blood of the covenant Hebrews gives in Heb. 9:15-29 is Ex. 24:8-11 , where Moses reads the Law, & on the people's profession of OBedience sprinkles the book & the people the blood of the covenant sacrifice. The wonderful result of this is a glorious sight of Christ in heavenly glory: Exodus 24:8-11

 

Again, as with the OC, the blood of the new covenant MUST be shed for the covenant blessings to be realised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[beameup]

Water baptism was a necessary step to becoming a priest. 

John the Baptist was preparing the nation of Israel to fulfill Exodus 19:6:

And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation

 

This will literally be fulfilled by Israel during the Millennial reign of Messiah.

[John81]

Water baptism was a necessary step to becoming a priest. 

John the Baptist was preparing the nation of Israel to fulfill Exodus 19:6:

And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation

 

This will literally be fulfilled by Israel during the Millennial reign of Messiah.

The Savior of the World by Henry Morris, Ph.D.

“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.” (1 John 4:14)

This unique title of the Lord Jesus Christ assures us that when the Father sent His Son away from the glories of heaven down to a world lost in sin, it was not just to be the Messiah of the Jews, or to assume David’s throne as King of Israel, or to punish the wicked Gentile nations.

“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved” (John 3:17).

In fact, this special title is used only one other time in the Bible, and it was used by Samaritans rather than Jews when they came to know Jesus as He ministered among them for two days. These people were mostly of Gentile background with a mixture of Israeli blood who had become adherents of a quasi-Jewish religion that was also part pagan.

But they were actually looking for a Savior, and their testimony after meeting Jesus was: “Now we believe . . . and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world” (John 4:42). They perceived that He had come to bring salvation to lost sinners in every nation, not just to Israel or Samaria. As He said later, “I came not to judge the world, but to save the world” (John 12:47).

And so He commanded His disciples “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” (Luke 24:47). He became to the Father “the propitiation . . . for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2) when He offered up His life as a sacrifice for sins, then died and rose again. We who have believed on Him as our personal Savior are now to be His witnesses “in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” (Acts 1:8). HMM

[Genevanpreacher]

*Water baptism was a necessary step to becoming a priest. 

John the Baptist was preparing the nation of Israel to fulfill Exodus 19:6:

And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation

 

*This will literally be fulfilled by Israel during the Millennial reign of Messiah.

 

*Scripture says this where?

[beameup]

*Scripture says this where?

Study first century Judiasm.  Hebrews is written to..... ta da.... Hebrews.  The Apostle to the Gentiles is Paul.