How Old Is The Earth

Ukulelemike · February 18, 2014

Seems some have to take the extreme absolute side against it because all their faith will crumble if they consider the idea as possible. There are too many unanswerable passages within the OT (not just though-out Job) to dismiss a gap completely. It hardly matters much or the Lord would have it explained thoroughly. Unless of course you are among those that claim the Bible says one thing but means another.

IOW: you can consider the possibility without buying into evolution and it associated nonsense.

Seems the Lord has repented several times over earth and man so why would a gap be so hard to consider? If you free yourself from the extreme traditional stand, that is.

If you pleae, give me these unanswerable passages in the OT. I am not aware of anything unanswerable in this manner. In fact, the gap was conceived because of those who believed that evolution was unanswerable by a literal 6-day creation, from beginning to end. yet it is completely answerable. I suspect these OT verses are, as well.

heartstrings · February 18, 2014

You answer my question and I'll answer yours.

God bless,

Larry

Fair enough.

Why are people so sure that mythical beasts such as dragons are really myths?

God bless,

Larry

Why do people think that Bigfoot, Mokele Mbembe, Chupacabra, "Nessie", Satyrs, elves and trolls are myths?

Because nobody has ever proven that any of them exist; dragons or Bigfoots...or is that Bigfeets?

heartstrings · February 18, 2014

If you pleae, give me these unanswerable passages in the OT. I am not aware of anything unanswerable in this manner. In fact, the gap was conceived because of those who believed that evolution was unanswerable by a literal 6-day creation, from beginning to end. yet it is completely answerable. I suspect these OT verses are, as well.

Gap theory has been around long before Darwin was born so I don't know what 'evolution' you mean.

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

I will try and explain why I came to some of these conclusions. And mind you I am still open.

I wondered greatly at what caused the fall of Lucifer. It is connected to a throne he was calling his throne.

Isa 14:12-14 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

As I wondered (thought deeply) on this during one of my morning devotions I came across this.

Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

As I meditated (thought deeply) on this verse and as I see the scriptures I saw that the Lord possessed someone calling them self "me" in the beginning of his way. You will notice that this verse is a divine cross reference to Gen 1:1 with the word "beginning". This person (I believe is God the son) was set up from the beginning (second cross reference to Gen1:1) and from the wording this took place before the earth was created, before there was a depth (heaven deep space) he was brought forth when there was yet no fountains abounding with water.

I think I may have already covered this in the OP but if God has preserved his word to us chronologically then this exulting of the person took place before the earth was created, and the earth was created before there was a heaven (a depth) and the heaven before there were fountains with water.

One key to see here is this. Water had a place where it was contained and it was in fountains. When we get to Gen1:2 water is everywhere around the earth and on the earth and no longer in the fountains that originally held them according to verse 2. So what we sea is a flood took place between verse one and verse two.

Why were the waters outside their ordained place of the fountains?

Why was there a flood on the earth and around the earth in verse two?

Now please remember the Bible contains all we need for life and godliness it does not contain all of God's words prior to his creating the earth and after the new Jerusalem is set up. So that means there is a lot of knowledge of things eternal we don't know of. having said that let me continue.

Like many of you I have read my Bible cover to cover many times and on top of that studied portions, and reread others. I have to date read the Old testament 20 times and the New Testament over 40 times. On top of that I read Proverbs an additional 6 times and the book of Ephesians 7 times. Why do I tell you this. Well it is just to show that I am very familiar with the scriptures. I have only been a AV bible believer since 2004 so before then I read the NKJV, NIV, and the NASB.

One thing I could see from beginning to the end (no matter which version I read) that one thing was the Earth was a place for a throne city for Our Lord Jesus To reign from. With this in mind one day I came to Isa 14:12-14 and as I read it something struck me. If Lucifer was an anointed cherub he had a seat that was with God the Father, (JHVH) and I thought "how could he try and lift up that seat which was in the presence of God and lead a bunch of angels astray if the throne he was exalting was the was in God's presence? He couldn't.

So something came to mind (just remember not everything that happened in heaven or outside the firmament is recorded in scriptures) and that idea was that God the Father commissioned Lucifer to take some angels and go to the earth he had created and placed in the depth of heaven and build a throne city. God possibly did not tell him who it was for and with his pride built up this throne city and throne that he was overcome with pride of his creation that he then with the angels he had said, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

As a Contractor will point out a house he built and say that is one of my houses, Lucifer identified this throne as his own. But it was not for him it was part of the honoring for God the Son. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Lucifers iniquity is what brought darkenss into God's heaven, and when that iniquity was found in him God's judgement went forth and destroyed the throne and it's city with the release of the waters from the fountains and flooded the area of the earth so that the earth was standing in and out of the waters.. After that judgement was complete we find the Spirit moving on the face of the waters in Gen 1:2.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

DaveW · February 18, 2014

Evolution and long ages were around before Darwin too.
He just gets all the credit for it.

Still doesn't make it right......

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

If you pleae, give me these unanswerable passages in the OT. I am not aware of anything unanswerable in this manner. In fact, the gap was conceived because of those who believed that evolution was unanswerable by a literal 6-day creation, from beginning to end. yet it is completely answerable. I suspect these OT verses are, as well.

Where in the Bible is it called the "six days of creation"?

You can't find that. It is called "his work".

The six days are days that included half light called Day and half dark that is called Night.

Seeing the creation of heaven and Earth in verse 1 was done before there was light brought forth in verse 3. So the heaven and the earth were not part of the first day.

and don't confuse the dry ground which God called the earth in verse 10 that is not the same as the earth in verse 1.

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

The OP does not support millions of years nor does it support evolution in any form.

I said in the OP that it could be anywhere from one day to one thousand years. nothing more than that.

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

I believe dragons, satyrs, Unicorns, behemoths and Leviathan exist and or existed because God's word mentions them.

Ukulelemike · February 18, 2014

Gap theory has been around long before Darwin was born so I don't know what 'evolution' you mean.

Evolution was around before Darwin too. He stands on other shoulders.

Ukulelemike · February 18, 2014

Where in the Bible is it called the "six days of creation"?

You can't find that. It is called "his work".

The six days are days that included half light called Day and half dark that is called Night.

Seeing the creation of heaven and Earth in verse 1 was done before there was light brought forth in verse 3. So the heaven and the earth were not part of the first day.

and don't confuse the dry ground which God called the earth in verse 10 that is not the same as the earth in verse 1.

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Made: asah

to do, fashion, accomplish, make

(Qal)
1. to do, work, make, produce
  1. to do
  2. to work
  3. to deal (with)
  4. to act, act with effect, effect

So in six days God made, produced, heaven (singular, the whole space), earth, the sea and everything in them. So, not seeing any space here for a gap. The creation of the heaven and earth were part of the first day, which was marked by the creation of light and its separation from darkness.

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

yeah but it is called "HIs work" not "the six days of Creation".

The point being God's word never calls it the six days of creation. Just like rapture and trinity.

However, he took six days to work, make and create different things so the earth could be inhabitable for mankind then he himself rested on the seventh. And I believe on the eight day Eve is deceived and Adam sinned.

We can see God had man in mind on day four when he created the Sun (not the light in Gen1:3) moon and stars. He said these would be for signs times and seasons. Gen 1:14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Only man can read signs, needs the seasons and need to know the times.

the Firmament of the heaven is what we call deep space and the open heaven is where the birds fly, so by the opening of Genesis 2 it is called the heavens.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever · February 18, 2014

You know if God created the heaven and the earth, then commissioned Lucifer to build a throne, and because of his iniquity that brought darkness and judgement to that earth and the heaven, then God calls for light to renew the earth that had been destroyed by a flood of waters from the fountains. He does his six day s of work and rests and today it still could be between 6 and 7 thousand years. because the creation of the heaven and the earth could have taken a very short period of time that it would still fit into a young earth ideology.

a gap doesn't mean it has to be tens of thousands or millions of years it could be a day. As I said above one day as a thousand years and no longer

the only beings that would have been on the planet at the time of Genesis 1:2 would have been the angels.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

Salyan · February 18, 2014

Whoops, all Dinosaurs were not land animals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesiosauria

God bless,

Larry

http://www.caspercollege.edu/tate/faq_answers/edres_prefaq_09.pdf

Thinks she's refuting "death before sin" by referring to the death of the dinos; not a pre-adamic race.

This.

Seems some have to take the extreme absolute side against it because all their faith will crumble if they consider the idea as possible. There are too many unanswerable passages within the OT (not just though-out Job) to dismiss a gap completely. It hardly matters much or the Lord would have it explained thoroughly. Unless of course you are among those that claim the Bible says one thing but means another.

IOW: you can consider the possibility without buying into evolution and it associated nonsense.

Seems the Lord has repented several times over earth and man so why would a gap be so hard to consider? If you free yourself from the extreme traditional stand, that is.

The main problem with a gap is as I stated earlier - if the gap includes any kind of death - human or otherwise - then it negates the curse of death as a result of sin. This affects the soteriology of the entire Bible. I suppose it would be possible for a gap not to include any death - but then why would they need a gap? The idea originally started (not necessarily AV's stance, just history) as an explanation for the supposed long geologic ages 'proved' by science. But if there is death before the Fall of man, then physical death is not a result of sin. Which means that there is no reason for believing that there is a spiritual death as a result of sin. Which makes God a liar, and means we have no need of salvation.

prophet1 · February 18, 2014

Man walked with dinosaurs since the day Adam named them all until only recently. Around the world their is evidence of this in writings and artwork and pictures and paintings. In the 1500s there was still a T-Rex terrorizing indians along the Penobscot. It stands to reason then that Noah even brought them aboard the ark.

My people hunted Raptors until the 1500's, in the Appalachians. We have drawings and stories.

Anishinaabe

Salyan · February 18, 2014

You know if God created the heaven and the earth, then commissioned Lucifer to build a throne, and because of his iniquity that brought darkness and judgement to that earth and the heaven, then God calls for light to renew the earth that had been destroyed by a flood of waters from the fountains. He does his six day s of work and rests and today it still could be between 6 and 7 thousand years. because the creation of the heaven and the earth could have taken a very short period of time that it would still fit into a young earth ideology.

a gap doesn't mean it has to be tens of thousands or millions of years it could be a day. As I said above one day as a thousand years and no longer

the only beings that would have been on the planet at the time of Genesis 1:2 would have been the angels.

I suppose there's nothing I can think of against that. I'd just be very cautious about calling it a 'gap' theory as that could lead others to either think you're touting the 'official' gap theory or, after accepting your ideas, to accept traditional gap theory simply cause it has the same name (and yes, people do that kind of thing. It's called not researching things. :wink )