Question Of The The Day....

[irishman]

I often wonder about this, it seems to be another of those unrevealed mysteries.  Think of the world in the time of Noah; God destroyed the babies as well as the teens and adults.  Perhaps upbringing IS the key.  The infants in Noah's day were not any more enlightened than babes are today, and yet they perished in the flood.  Judgment fell on ALL of them, and only Noah's family survived. Their parents made the decision for them, a mystery indeed.

 

It may be similar to asking "What is the age of death?"

[heartstrings]

Yes, babies died in the flood. The children of those who followed Korah(sp?) dropped down into a pit and died. Many babies die young today, many are miscarried and stillborn. But there's a whole world of difference between physical death and eternal damnation. 

 

9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

At what time could Paul have been "alive" and later "died"? I could be wrong, but I suspect it was when he was an innocent child, with no concept of right and wrong, very similar to the original state of Adam and Eve, But when Junior is told "No, No NO" and Junior does it anyway, at some point the child disobeys the "law", commits his first sin, and "dies" spiritually, just like Paul says he did. Am I far off here? And after the child becomes a willful sinner, and can understand sufficiently, he needs salvation. The Bible gives no certain age for this.

[JerryNumbers]

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

That's about what the Bible teaches.

[irishman]

I suppose it remains a question, but wasn't the flood a symbol of the eternal judgment of God, and not merely physical death? 

 

Babies are born with a sin nature (the will to sin) and will sin from their mothers womb (potentially).  If sin is accounted for at the new born level isn't judgment also demanded?

 

Not wishing to argue the point, in fact I hope there is an "age of accountability", but the Bible is not clear on it.

[The Glory Land]

I suppose it remains a question, but wasn't the flood a symbol of the eternal judgment of God, and not merely physical death?

Babies are born with a sin nature (the will to sin) and will sin from their mothers womb (potentially). If sin is accounted for at the new born level isn't judgment also demanded?

Not wishing to argue the point, in fact I hope there is an "age of accountability", but the Bible is not clear on it.

Or you can use the understanding of Sex. At what age does a child understands Sex?

[HappyChristian]

Or you can use the understanding of Sex. At what age does a child understands Sex?

No, we're not going there, TGL...

[JerryNumbers]

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

2Pe 2:7 ¶ And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Pe 2:10 ¶ But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

[heartstrings]

Again, I believe that babies and little children are fully "alive" until they sin by choice, "die" spiritually, and become "lost".. Therefore any babies and toddlers who died in the judgement of the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah or any other disaster throughout History are safe, and did not go to Hell. There is physical death for ALL human beings no matter what age it occurs, but spiritual death or the "second death" is something else entirely.

[Invicta]

Again, I believe that babies and little children are fully "alive" until they sin by choice, "die" spiritually, and become "lost".. Therefore any babies and toddlers who died in the judgement of the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah or any other disaster throughout History are safe, and did not go to Hell. There is physical death for ALL human beings no matter what age it occurs, but spiritual death or the "second death" is something else entirely.

 

Have you any scripture to support that view?

[heartstrings]

Post #17

[heartstrings]

...and Matthew 18:10.........and 2 Samuel 12:23....and Matthew 18:3

[JerryNumbers]

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

 

The RCC teaches each man falls on his own, that is what this verse teaches, yet this verse teaches death is passed on to all men, for all have sinned.

 

As for babies, I do not believe God holds them accountable until they reach the point they can understand they're lost, & need a Savior, that is I believe that's what the Scriptures teach.

[Ukulelemike]

I was eight and I understood. I know some 20 who have no real understanding-yes, they are damaged. I believe it completely depends on their ability to understand, to be accountable.

[TheSword]

I agree with Mike and Jerry regarding accountability.  I also believe that the Romans 5 passage, in concert with Genesis 3 indicates that all people are born spiritually dead, though God holds them unaccountable until He deems them capable of understanding. This is the ultimate truth behind Jesus declaration in John 3:1-7 that one must be born again, i.e. born spiritually, because they have never been spiritually alive. Otherwise Jesus would have have said you must be re-born; but that is not the case, for He specified that one must be born of water (physical birth) and of spirit (spiritual birth) rather than born of water and of spirit again (physical birth, spiritual birth, and spiritual re-birth).

[heartstrings]

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

 Romans 9:11 Babies have never committed sin

 

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3 How can a person "become as little children"? By being purged from his old sins (2 Peter 1:9), and being "born again" with a new nature which does not sin (1 John 5:18) and therefore is clean, pure and innocent like a little child. 

 

 

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Romans 7:9 Paul said he was "alive" and "died". and he could not have been speaking of physical death because he was writing with his pen at the time. A child has "done no good or evil" until he sins the very first time.